Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Galstaf, Sorcerer of Lite 07-20-07, 05:50 PM	Yeah, yeah, I know. Another overblown critical hit system with complicated injury rules and wound levels and hit location tables. But seriously, hear me out. I think this one might have some potential. Why? Well, for one thing, it's not really all that complicated. Plus, it takes advantage of preexisting conventions within the rules and builds on what's already there rather than trying to shoehorn something totally new and different into the system. So give it a chance before you write it off as "just another" anything. Design notes will be in blue throughout the post as I try to explain the whys in addition to the hows. INJURIES Injuries build on (and in some ways, replace) D&D's standard critical hit rules. Basically, whenever a crit would happen under the normal rules, an injury occurs instead. Injuries to different parts of a character's body affect his performance in different ways, and as the severity of an injury increases or decreases, so do the penalties associated with it. This mostly grew out of a desire to do something about the binary nature of D&D combat; that is, you're either fighting at full effectiveness, or you're completely incapacitated. It doesn't matter if you're at one hit point or a hundred, you're still going to perform the same way (though I'm told the new d20 "Saga" rules do something about this). By associating injuries with specific penalties, a character who's taken a number of serious blows but is still in the positive HP column actually "feels" those hits and sees his combat (and non-combat) abilities degrade accordingly. And of course, it also means that the group might actually see some benefit from hacking away at a dragon for ten rounds before it suddenly just collapses -- it can actually be weakened over time. At the same time, though, I don't want characters losing limbs or otherwise suffering permanent impairment. That's just no fun, and it's really unfair in a "players vs. monsters" sense, because, as many people will point out, the monsters are only around for one encounter. The PCs need to remain functional for a whole campaign. How It Works There are six (or five, depending on your tastes) steps in determining the effects of an injury: 1. Threat 2. Confirmation 3. Location 4. Damage 5. Impacts (optional) 6. Injury This is exactly like threatening a critical hit in the standard D&D rules. If an attack hits a target and the natural die roll falls within the critical threat range of the weapon being used to make the attack, it threatens an injury. Again, this is exactly like the standard rules. If an injury is threatened, roll again, adding the same modifiers that were used to make the initial attack. If this attack hits, the attacker has injured his opponent. A die (the type varies depending on what exactly is being injured) is rolled, and the result is checked against a hit location table. The table will be different based on the build of the creature being attacked, but for most standard bipeds (two arms, two legs, and a head), the table would be as follows: Standard Biped Hit Locations d8 1 - Head 2 - Body 3 - Body 4 - Body 5 - Arm (primary) 6 - Arm (off-hand) 7 - Legs 8 - Legs This is probably the part of implementing this system that would take the most work -- creating hit location tables for all the different body types one might find in D&D. Most things fit pretty well into a few standardized tables (the same table could be used for all standard PC races, as well as most other humanoids, monstrous humanoids, giants, and many outsiders, fey, and others, for instance), and many others could use a variation of one of these standard tables. For example, a gargoyle or other winged humanoid would use the standard biped table above, but would roll a d10, with 9 and 10 indicating an injury to its wings. A few things, however, might need to have their own special hit location tables drawn up -- a beholder, for instance. For the most part, this step is the same as under normal rules, except for one thing: Some injuries cause normal (un-multiplied) damage, while some allow the attacker to apply his weapon's normal critical multiplier. This is spelled out in the entry on the injury table (see below), but as a general rule, hits to the vitals (the head and body) mean the damage is multiplied, while hits to limbs (arms, legs, wings, etc.) mean only normal, un-multiplied damage is dealt. This is done for two reasons: First, because I don't want this system to make injuries just hands-down more dangerous than standard criticals. It would make combat a lot more lethal than in standard D&D if injuries were added on top of multiplied damage every time. This sort of evens things out. Second, I just find it more realistic. A sword blow to the arm is certainly serious, and possibly life-threatening (hence the normal hit point damage), but it's generally going to affect the arm itself a lot more than it's going to affect the body as a whole. Each location on the injury table has an Initial Impacts entry, which describes to initial effects of the injury. These are not long-term consequences, just the immediate effects of taking a particularly strong blow to the (insert location here). This includes a momentary dazed condition from a blow to the head, the possibility of dropping your weapon after being struck in the sword arm, or a chance to be knocked down by a wounding attack to your legs. This part isn't integral to the injury system, but I like it. Still, you can leave this step out altogether and the system will function just fine. This system introduces a few extra steps to combat anyway, so removing this one in the interest of pacing might be the way to go for you and your group. Finally, the effects of the injury are applied, according to the body part's entry on the injury table. The severity of the injury ranges from 0 (minor) to 5 (mortal), and is based on the crit multiplier of the weapon used in the attack. So a longsword (crit multiplier x2) would inflict a severity 2 (moderate) wound, while a heavy pick (crit multiplier x4) would inflict a severity 4 (critical) one. Injury Severity 0 - Minor 1 - Light 2 - Moderate 3 - Serious 4 - Critical 5 - Mortal You'll notice that, for the most part, the severity categories are named using the same terms as the cure spell of equivalent (cleric) level. This is done on purpose, not just for descriptive consistency, but also to make things easier when healing injuries (see below). Eagle-eyed readers may also notice that it's impossible to inflict a minor, light, or mortal wound, as there are no weapons with crit multipliers of 0, 1, or 5. This is also done on purpose; things should clear up as you keep reading. Standard Injury Penalty When the phrase "standard injury penalty" appears on the injury table, it means that the penalty is equal to the severity of the wound. In other words, a serious (severity 3) wound incurs a -3 penalty. Multiple Injuries to a Single Location Sometimes, a combatant who's already nursing an injury to a particular body part will be unlucky enough to be struck with another injury to that same part. When this occurs, one of two things can happen: - If the second injury is of the same severity of the existing wound or lower, the wound is aggravated and moves up to the next severity level (to a maximum of severity 5). - If the second injury is of a higher severity than the existing wound, the higher-severity wound simply takes precedence over the lower. In either case, all other effects of the blow (hit point damage, and initial impacts if they're being used) are still applied. For example: Regdar is fighting a pair of cultists. One cultist wields a longsword (crit x2), the other a scythe (crit x4). Early in the battle, the sword-wielding cultist got in a lucky shot and inflicted a moderate (severity 2) injury to Regdar's leg. If this round, that cultist manages another injury to Regdar's leg (another severity 2 injury), the wound will become a serious (severity 3) one. If instead the scythe-wielding cultist injures Regdar's leg, the wound would become a critical (severity 4) one. This build-up of multiple injuries to the same location is the only way to incur a mortal (severity 5) wound (aside from a few obscure feats and/or spells that could conceivably increase a crit x4 weapon's multiplier up to a x5, I suppose). Mortal wounds tend to be debilitating and may effectively take a character out of the fight. While I like having the possibility there, it's not something that should come into play often. Damage Multiplied Initial Impact: The combatant must make a Fortitude save (DC = damage dealt by the blow) or be dazed for a number of rounds equal to the severity of the injury. 0 (minor): -1 injury penalty to all Concentration checks, as well as all Intelligence- or Wisdom-based skill checks. 1 (light) - 4 (critical): Standard injury penalty to all d20 rolls (attack rolls, skill and ability checks, saving throws, initiative rolls and any other roll made on a d20), as well as to Armor Class. Caster level is reduced by an amount equal to the injury's severity, but do not apply the penalty twice for caster level checks (once for the reduced caster level and again for the d20 roll). 5 (mortal): The character is immediately reduced to -1 hit points (unless already lower) and is dying! Roll to stabilize as normal, but the character will remain unconscious until this wound is reduced to critical (severity 4) or lower, even if hit points are raised to 0 or above. I know a penalty to everything seems a bit harsh, but it's a head injury, after all. There's a lot going on in the head. Not only is there the possibility of brain damage here, but the character's eyes and ears are in his head, his throat could be injured, he's probably dizzy from the impact... Damage Multiplied Initial Impact: none. Special: Injuries to the body have no specific effects or penalties beyond hit point damage. In other words, an injury to the body works just like a standard, run-of-the-mill critical hit. Increased damage, but nothing else. Why? Partially for simplicity's sake. Since the injuries themselves are described very vaguely, I don't want to get bogged down in what happens to the heart, lungs, etc. at varying levels of injury. Beyond that, I'd have to break down "body" into at least chest, back, and abdomen in order to have specific effects and that's a little more specific than I want to get. Note: The same table is used for both primary and secondary/off-hand arms. If a particular effect doesn't apply to the arm in question, ignore it. If both arms are injured, actions requiring both hands/arms incur the penalties for both sets of injuries (an exception to the normal rule that injury penalties do not stack). For example, a character with moderate (severity 3) injuries to both arms would have a -3 penalty to attack rolls with either arm, but would have a -6 penalty to climb checks, since that would require both arms. Also, keep in mind that using one's off-hand to perform actions (such as attacking) carries a -4 penalty unless the character has the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, so simply switching one's weapon over to the other hand is not necessarily a way to offset the penalties associated with primary-hand injuries. Damage NOT Multiplied Initial Impact: In addition to the injury and damage, treat the attack as a disarm attempt against anything held in the affected hand, using the original attack roll (though modifiers for weapon type and creature size may still apply). This disarm attempt does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If the injuring attack was made unarmed, the attacker does not get to take the item on a successful disarm attempt; it falls to the ground in the defender's square. If this disarm attempt is unsuccessful, the defender does not have a chance to attempt to disarm the attacker. 0 (minor): -1 injury penalty to attack rolls made with the affected arm, and to any Strength-based skill or ability check which requires the use of the affected arm (including most climb and swim checks, but not most jump checks). 1 (light): Standard injury penalty to attack and damage rolls made with the affected arm, and to any Strength- or Dexterity-based skill or ability check which requires the use of the affected arm (most climb, escape artist, open lock, sleight of hand, swim, tumble, and use rope checks), as well as grapple checks. Spells with somatic components (even those not normally affected by spell failure, such as divine spells) suffer a 5% spell failure chance, in addition to any arcane spell failure chance caused by armor. However, spellcasting can be accomplished using one's other hand at no penalty (unless that arm is also injured). In addition, if the arm is being used to carry a tower shield, the shield's AC bonus is lost (though the shield may still be used for cover). 2 (moderate): As per a light wound, but spell failure increases to 10% and the AC bonus from a tower or heavy shield is lost. 3 (serious): As per a light wound, but spell failure increases to 15% and the AC bonus from a tower, heavy, or light shield is lost. 4 (critical): As per a light wound, but spell failure increases to 20% and the AC bonus from any shield (even a buckler) is lost. 5 (mortal): The arm is non-functional and cannot be used for anything, including attacking, skill checks, or carrying objects (for purposes of determining penalties for two-handed actions, treat the arm as having a -5 injury penalty). If both arms are injured in this fashion, spellcasting is still possible, but spell failure increases to 25%. Hopefully that's not too confusing. Basically, the penalties for injuries to either arm apply independently, but when the arms have to work together, the penalties work together too. Damage NOT Multiplied Initial Impact: In addition to the injury and damage, treat the attack as a trip attempt against the injured character, using the original attack roll (though modifiers for size may still apply). This trip attempt does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If this trip attempt is unsuccessful, the defender does not have a chance to attempt to trip the attacker. 0 (minor): -1 injury penalty to rolls to resist being tripped, overrun, or bull rushed. In addition, the character's maximum run speed is 3x his base speed, rather than 4x. 1 (light): Standard injury penalty Armor Class, Reflex saves, and to any Strength- or Dexterity-based skill or ability check which requires the use of the legs (most balance, climb, move silently, ride, swim, and tumble checks), as well as checks to avoid being tripped, overrun, or bull rushed. In addition, the character's maximum run speed is 3x his base speed, rather than 4x, and his base speed is reduced by 5 ft (to a minimum of 5 ft). 2 (moderate): As per a light wound, but base speed is reduced by 10 ft. rather than 5, and the character cannot run or charge. 3 (serious): As per a moderate wound, but base speed is reduced by 15 ft. rather than 10 (to a minimum of 5 ft), and the character cannot attempt an overrun or bull rush. 4 (critical): As per a serious wound, but base speed is reduced by 20 ft. rather than 15 (to a minimum of 5 ft), and standing up from a prone position requires a full-round action. 5 (mortal): The legs are non-functional and the character is unable to stand up from a prone position. Many actions requiring the use of the legs will be impossible; some (such as climbing or swimming) may be attempted with a -5 penalty. The character may crawl 5 ft. per round as a move action. I didn't feel any need to separate out the legs into individual entries for left and right; legs is legs is legs, and while arms often act separately, the legs are generally a team. In fact, this entry would also be used for, say, a salamander that has no legs, but still has a lower body which it uses for locomotion. Not sure if quadrupeds need a different "legs" table than bipeds do -- maybe they'll get a "hind legs/forelegs" set-up. Or not. Injuries and hit point damage exist separately, and heal the same way. There are three primary ways to get rid of an injury: Natural Healing: Eventually, an injury will go away on its own. Normally, it takes a month to reduce the severity of each of your wounds (that is, the wounds to each respective bodily location) by one level. If you're resting (not complete bed rest, but no combat, treks through the wilderness, etc.), this time can be reduced to two weeks per level of severity. Someone with the heal skill can use it to provide long-term care (DC 15) and reduce this time even further, to one week per severity level. Once a wound is reduced to severity 0 (minor), a good night's rest will remove its effects completely. First Aid: A successful DC 15 heal check within the first five minutes after an injury is inflicted can reduce its severity by one (and only one) level (and cannot reduce it to less than severity 0). This check will also prevent any permanent effects from a mortal wound, if that option is used (see below). Magical Healing: The various cure spells can be used to heal injuries, rather than curing hit point damage. Upon casting the spell, the caster must decide whether to heal damage or an injury. If the caster chooses to heal an injury, any one injury (of the caster's choosing) that the creature suffers from is reduced to severity 0 (minor), so long as its existing severity is no greater than the severity referenced in the spell's name (in other words, cure light wounds can heal a light injury, cure moderate wounds can heal a light or moderate injury, and so forth). A minor wound can be healed entirely by any application of healing magic. The heal spell is different. It reduces any and all injuries suffered by the creature to severity 0 (minor), in addition to all of its other effects, including the curing of hit point damage. Just like in the real world, sometimes a character never completely recovers from a grievous injury. Sure, it's technically healed up and all, but how many people out there still walk with a cane because of an old war wound from Korea? Or occasionally throw their back out because of an injury suffered on a high school football field in 1970? Lots, that's how many. So, if a character ever suffers a mortal wound to a body part, there can be lasting effects, even if the damage is healed up. Once a wound becomes mortal (severity 5), that body part will forever bear a severity 0 (minor) wound that will never go away and cannot be healed by any means (barring high-level magic like wish or miracle, of course). Much like initial impacts, this might complicate things, so it's an option. Remove the lasting effects, and the injury system stays intact just fine. Besides, like I keep saying, part of my goal here is to implement injuries without any permanent character damage. But this doesn't seem too invasive to me; it's a -1 penalty to a couple of rolls here and there. It just adds a little flavor to the character and gives him an interesting story to tell at the tavern. The various inflict spells can be used to injure a target, rather than doing hit point damage. Upon a successful touch attack, the caster must decide whether to inflict damage or an injury. If the caster chooses to inflict an injury, and the target fails his save, roll for a hit location and apply an injury of the severity referenced in the spell's name (but no damage) to the body part indicated. If the body is rolled as a location, the spell deals damage normally. On a successful save, the target suffers only a minor wound to the location, and that wound does not aggravate existing wounds. Inflict minor wounds cannot aggravate an existing injury; if the spell is used in this manner and an already-injured body part is rolled, the spell is wasted. A successful save against inflict minor wounds means the spell has no effect. Would it be too much to have harm do something similar to every part of the target's body, seeing as it's the anti-heal? Maybe a light wound to everywhere on a failed save, a minor wound to everywhere but no aggravation of existing injuries on a successful one? Some Points to Remember: - Injury penalties do not stack with each other, but do stack with all other types of modifiers. - Hit location rolls are only necessary when an injury occurs. For normal attacks, all you need to know is whether it hit and how much damage it dealt if it did. - No matter how badly injured a body part is, it's never beyond saving. I've purposely avoided including severed or otherwise permanently destroyed body parts in this system. - For simplicity's sake, I'm going to go ahead and say that anything that's immune to critical hits is immune to injuries too... for now. There's that little voice telling me that maybe it would be better to allow certain undead (coughzombiescough) to be hacked apart in sections, but I'm not sure it's worth the complication. It would give good clerics the chance to use that inflict option on them. A Few Concerns: - Including hit locations means it's only a matter of time before players start trying to attack specific body parts. A "called shot" mechanic is probably worth working up alongside this system. And I am, just in case. - Vorpal weapons are worth looking it -- including hit locations might mean that instead of instant decapitation, the vorpal blade simply lops off whatever body part was injured. If that's the head, then the weapon's effect is the same as under standard rules. If it's a limb, that would be treated as a mortal injury to that limb (but might be harder to heal). If it's the body... I'm not sure where to go with that. - I'm not sure how a coup de grace should work with this system. Does it ignore injuries and work normally? Does it use the injury system normally and roll for location? Can the coup de grace-er choose the location? Hmm... - So far, I haven't taken into account obscure and/or rare circumstances, like how an injury to the arm would affect a creature with a climb or burrow speed, but that's coming. If you think of any situations like that, by all means mention them so that nothing gets left out!
Werral 07-20-07, 06:14 PM	Using the crit multiplier number makes the injuries a bit predictable. While it injects another roll this might work in lieu of something better: Crit modifier: *2 rolls D4 on injury table *3 rolls D6 *4 rolls D8 Another question: Do you take HP damage when you take an injury? Why isn't the injury in someway commeasurate with the damage dealt? I mean a power attacking Str 20 barbarian would cause more injury than someone else no?
Galstaf, Sorcerer of Lite 07-20-07, 06:42 PM	Using the crit multiplier number makes the injuries a bit predictable. While it injects another roll this might work in lieu of something better: Crit modifier: *2 rolls D4 on injury table *3 rolls D6 *4 rolls D8 Hmm... possibly. Problem with that is how many different severity levels I'd need to work out... and adding more of those screws up the healing method and the minor/light/moderate/serious/critical niceness... still maybe some randomization. Need to think on that. A d3 roll with modifiers, maybe? x2 = -1 x3 = 0 x4 = +1 (Of course, this means a x2 crit can inflict a minor injury, while the others get to do "real" ones every time... might be skewed a little too far in favor of higher multipliers. More thinking needed.) Another question: Do you take HP damage when you take an injury? Yep. That's what the "Damage Multiplied/Damage Not Multiplied" line is for. Why isn't the injury in someway commeasurate with the damage dealt? I mean a power attacking Str 20 barbarian would cause more injury than someone else no? Sure he would, but I sort of fell back on the hit point system to reflect that. I don't really have a reason for not tying the two together; it just "feels" better to me if they're more or less separate. Otherwise, things tend to fall apart either with really big hit point totals or with really small ones; it's hard to come up with something that's relevant to someone playing a 20th-level barbarian and to someone playing a 1st-level wizard -- either the barbarian laughs it off or the wizard doesn't survive his first encounter. And I'd like this to remain playable across the board. Any ideas, I'm open to them.
Asurya 07-23-07, 10:46 AM	Your system is nice ;) I tried one myself about a year ago, but where every hit was localised... it was based on Inquisitor combat system but it was a pain to play with. One problem though, as I read it now, a CON18 (you know the stat representing your character’s health and stamina) charcter is going to suffer the same debilitating effects as a CON10 one? kind of weird to me Under my system, the damage taken on a body part increased as the part kept hit, and the "injury rank" increased every time a threshold (determined by Fort save) was reached, perhaps you could look that way... just my 2cp
Galstaf, Sorcerer of Lite 07-30-07, 05:36 PM	Your system is nice ;)One problem though, as I read it now, a CON18 (you know the stat representing your character’s health and stamina) charcter is going to suffer the same debilitating effects as a CON10 one? kind of weird to me Right; again, I sort of fell back on hit points to indicate a character's ability to stand up to damage (under standard rules, a character takes the same amount of damage from a crit no matter what his CON is)... still, an interesting thought -- maybe something can be worked out where the attacker's STR bonus is compared to the defender's CON bonus (might help solve the "crits from the same weapon are always the same" problem, too...). At any rate, you've inspired me to at the very least re-work the healing rates for injuries to take CON score into account. I'll post the revisions here whenever they're finished.
Thanuir 07-31-07, 04:10 AM	Rolling for the hit location always struck me as the wrong way. I think called shots should be made the default mechanic, not an elaborate option. But defender should be able to always protect at least one area from them.
Optimized_Commoner 07-31-07, 08:04 AM	I dislike critical hit tables as a general rule. However I think you've done well here and the concepts behind this system are much to my liking. However I feel it is too complicated. It looks more intricate than the grappling system and I know that the rest of my D&D group isn't even willing to learn the grapple rules so I probably couldn't get this implimented as it stands. Still, well done.
Galstaf, Sorcerer of Lite 07-31-07, 01:09 PM	Rolling for the hit location always struck me as the wrong way. I think called shots should be made the default mechanic, not an elaborate option. But defender should be able to always protect at least one area from them. In many systems, that would work. In D&D, though, combat is very abstract. Remember that not every attack roll necessarily corresponds to a single swing of a character's sword, nor does every swing of the sword get accounted for with a die roll. Hit locations are "special" because it's a way of expressing this specific result of an abstract concept of attacking. You're fighting an opponent, and when you see an opening, you strike it, whether that opening is high, low, left or right. I'm working up a "called shot" system to work alongside injuries, but that's for those rare cases where you'd want to focus on attacking a specific body part to the exclusion of everything else. To focus so much on attacking an opponent's injured arm that you ignore a perfectly good chance to hit him in the legs, for instance. I'm also trying to keep that system from being too "elaborate." No more so than the existing mechanics for trips and disarms and such, anyway. I dislike critical hit tables as a general rule. However I think you've done well here and the concepts behind this system are much to my liking. However I feel it is too complicated. It looks more intricate than the grappling system and I know that the rest of my D&D group isn't even willing to learn the grapple rules so I probably couldn't get this implimented as it stands. Still, well done. Yeah, it's sort of complicated. In practice, I think the most complicated part is tracking the penalties from multiple injuries at once. Other than that, it's pretty straightforward. I'm thinking of putting together a .pdf "wound log" to make things easier during play. Still, it's good to know I've managed to impress someone who doesn't even like this kind of thing, even if you won't be using it. Thanks for the feedback!
Lawkeeper 08-01-07, 08:37 AM	Nice system. If I may, I have a suggestion. - For simplicity's sake, I'm going to go ahead and say that anything that's immune to critical hits is immune to injuries too... for now. There's that little voice telling me that maybe it would be better to allow certain undead (coughzombiescough) to be hacked apart in sections, but I'm not sure it's worth the complication. It would give good clerics the chance to use that inflict option on them What about limiting the immunity to the body and head parts, but leave them open to limb injuries ? The problem is not so much about pain as about impaired movements.
Galstaf, Sorcerer of Lite 08-01-07, 04:05 PM	Nice system. If I may, I have a suggestion. What about limiting the immunity to the body and head parts, but leave them open to limb injuries ? The problem is not so much about pain as about impaired movements. You know... ...that's just crazy enough to work.