int delays [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

int delays [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Valoy_Muniz
03-16-07, 01:27 PM I was thinking about initive again. I rember in the old day there was wepon speed and casting times on spells and I was thinking about putting something like that back into the game.
What I am thinking of doing is putting the pentalys at
Wepon the Max damage for the non magial verson for that size. If they are using 2 wepons or have multipe attacks use only the highest one.

Spells action is double the spell level. (swift and free casting do not effect it)

So using this a medium dagger is at a -4 while a small dagger is -3 and a medium long sword would be a -8.

That Magic missle spell would be a -2 unless it was quickened then it would not add a time to it (another action in the round may though.)

What do you think aboutt this?
Ra-Tiel
03-16-07, 02:05 PM [...] What do you think aboutt this?
I think that, although it may be worth the effort, it would complicate the game more than necessary. From my understanding of your suggestion, initiative would change for practically every combatant every round purely from attacking/casting alone. If some opponents switched their weapons (say from greatclub to throwing axes or something), you'd have to recalculate and recheck initiative again in this round.

I don't know it that little more realism was worth all that additional math and "ok, anyone going before init 12?" asking. ;)

However, there was another approach to this topic in the first Everquest d20 rpg. Instead of modifying initiative, weapon speed affected a creature's iterative attacks. Instead of a plain "-5" to gain your next attack, you subtracted your weapon's speed from your highest bonus to get the bonus of your next iterative attack.

For example, a character with BAB 10 wielding a normal dagger (delay 3) would have 4 attacks: +10/+7/+4/+1. The same character wielding a greatsword (delay 6) would have 2 attacks: +10/+4.

I find this a quite neat and intuitive mechanic that doesn't clutter up gameplay too much and still gives a nice reward for those using faster/lighter weapons.
gorckat
03-16-07, 03:08 PM I thought using speed to determine iterative attacks was shown to be unbalanced in favor of the light/fast weapons? Either here or in a link to some essay...or maybe it actually had no effect on the total damage dealt and therefore didn't really do anything?

I know I read something that showed one or the other.
fatal error
03-16-07, 10:22 PM I thought using speed to determine iterative attacks was shown to be unbalanced in favor of the light/fast weapons? Either here or in a link to some essay...or maybe it actually had no effect on the total damage dealt and therefore didn't really do anything?

I know I read something that showed one or the other.

Well, it also makes people switch weapons form level to level to get optimum damage and iterative attacks.
CaoSlayer
03-17-07, 04:29 AM The main trouble is:

what hapens if the one wielding a dage at the start of this turn drops it and casts a spell?

Also is hard to tell what weapon would strike first, while daggers are faster greatswords have bigger ranges and are swift weapons being wielded in two hands.
Ra-Tiel
03-17-07, 08:46 AM I thought using speed to determine iterative attacks was shown to be unbalanced in favor of the light/fast weapons? Either here or in a link to some essay...or maybe it actually had no effect on the total damage dealt and therefore didn't really do anything?

I know I read something that showed one or the other.
Well, I was just giving a suggestion. ;)

I personally believe that it would somewhat balance out. Larger weapons wielded two-handed would still be the primary damage dealers (power attack, 1 1/2 strength bonus, etc.) but would have fewer attacks per round, while lighter weapons would deal damage through many attacks per round (and just die against DR or regeneration).

Of course you could modify the combatants' initiative values with each made attack or cast spell, but imho that would make combat even more complicated than it already is. You would have to consider many situations, and some would plainly become "unhandable".

How would you, for example, handle the following situation? A character with BAB 11 wielding a longsword makes an attack, but his target had readied a disarm action and the character is disarmed. He then uses his "Quick Draw" feat to draw his short sword and makes two additional attacks. By how much is his initiative value reduced?

I hope you can understand what I want to say. ;)
CaoSlayer
03-17-07, 07:59 PM The best system for this kind of speeds is to change almost all the rules about the combat, it would be using the system from runequest by example...

Let´s keep iniciative for the first action then when is someone´s turn he declares and action and then set a "charge" time in iniciative points by example let´s say that moving a square is one point and a dagger attack four points, so the character decides to move three squares so he does it and spend three action points so he will act again in three point after when he will decide if wants to move again or attack or do another action with other cost.

Is not easy to do but results in a more realist combat.
Thomar_of_Uointer
03-20-07, 12:54 PM I personally believe that it would somewhat balance out. Larger weapons wielded two-handed would still be the primary damage dealers (power attack, 1 1/2 strength bonus, etc.) but would have fewer attacks per round, while lighter weapons would deal damage through many attacks per round (and just die against DR or regeneration).

I fixed that with my Mario D20 rules. The fast class gets an ability that allows it to make attacks of opportunity every time someone misses in melee. However, it's restricted to light weapons (though you can invest in the feature to use heavier weapons). This simulates the traditional video game idea of weak, fast attacks without it being gamebreaking (I always thought it was funny that rogues could deal more damage than a fighter under the right conditions while using smaller weapons). This is further offset by a set of feats that lets a character line up a single attack with bonuses as a full-round action. Only the races and prestige classes are setting-specific, you could easily adapt them to a standard fantasy setting.
http://www.kobolds-keep.net/MD20Rules.pdf

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Valoy_Muniz 03-16-07, 01:27 PM	I was thinking about initive again. I rember in the old day there was wepon speed and casting times on spells and I was thinking about putting something like that back into the game. What I am thinking of doing is putting the pentalys at Wepon the Max damage for the non magial verson for that size. If they are using 2 wepons or have multipe attacks use only the highest one. Spells action is double the spell level. (swift and free casting do not effect it) So using this a medium dagger is at a -4 while a small dagger is -3 and a medium long sword would be a -8. That Magic missle spell would be a -2 unless it was quickened then it would not add a time to it (another action in the round may though.) What do you think aboutt this?
Ra-Tiel 03-16-07, 02:05 PM	[...] What do you think aboutt this? I think that, although it may be worth the effort, it would complicate the game more than necessary. From my understanding of your suggestion, initiative would change for practically every combatant every round purely from attacking/casting alone. If some opponents switched their weapons (say from greatclub to throwing axes or something), you'd have to recalculate and recheck initiative again in this round. I don't know it that little more realism was worth all that additional math and "ok, anyone going before init 12?" asking. ;) However, there was another approach to this topic in the first Everquest d20 rpg. Instead of modifying initiative, weapon speed affected a creature's iterative attacks. Instead of a plain "-5" to gain your next attack, you subtracted your weapon's speed from your highest bonus to get the bonus of your next iterative attack. For example, a character with BAB 10 wielding a normal dagger (delay 3) would have 4 attacks: +10/+7/+4/+1. The same character wielding a greatsword (delay 6) would have 2 attacks: +10/+4. I find this a quite neat and intuitive mechanic that doesn't clutter up gameplay too much and still gives a nice reward for those using faster/lighter weapons.
gorckat 03-16-07, 03:08 PM	I thought using speed to determine iterative attacks was shown to be unbalanced in favor of the light/fast weapons? Either here or in a link to some essay...or maybe it actually had no effect on the total damage dealt and therefore didn't really do anything? I know I read something that showed one or the other.
fatal error 03-16-07, 10:22 PM	I thought using speed to determine iterative attacks was shown to be unbalanced in favor of the light/fast weapons? Either here or in a link to some essay...or maybe it actually had no effect on the total damage dealt and therefore didn't really do anything? I know I read something that showed one or the other. Well, it also makes people switch weapons form level to level to get optimum damage and iterative attacks.
CaoSlayer 03-17-07, 04:29 AM	The main trouble is: what hapens if the one wielding a dage at the start of this turn drops it and casts a spell? Also is hard to tell what weapon would strike first, while daggers are faster greatswords have bigger ranges and are swift weapons being wielded in two hands.
Ra-Tiel 03-17-07, 08:46 AM	I thought using speed to determine iterative attacks was shown to be unbalanced in favor of the light/fast weapons? Either here or in a link to some essay...or maybe it actually had no effect on the total damage dealt and therefore didn't really do anything? I know I read something that showed one or the other. Well, I was just giving a suggestion. ;) I personally believe that it would somewhat balance out. Larger weapons wielded two-handed would still be the primary damage dealers (power attack, 1 1/2 strength bonus, etc.) but would have fewer attacks per round, while lighter weapons would deal damage through many attacks per round (and just die against DR or regeneration). Of course you could modify the combatants' initiative values with each made attack or cast spell, but imho that would make combat even more complicated than it already is. You would have to consider many situations, and some would plainly become "unhandable". How would you, for example, handle the following situation? A character with BAB 11 wielding a longsword makes an attack, but his target had readied a disarm action and the character is disarmed. He then uses his "Quick Draw" feat to draw his short sword and makes two additional attacks. By how much is his initiative value reduced? I hope you can understand what I want to say. ;)
CaoSlayer 03-17-07, 07:59 PM	The best system for this kind of speeds is to change almost all the rules about the combat, it would be using the system from runequest by example... Let´s keep iniciative for the first action then when is someone´s turn he declares and action and then set a "charge" time in iniciative points by example let´s say that moving a square is one point and a dagger attack four points, so the character decides to move three squares so he does it and spend three action points so he will act again in three point after when he will decide if wants to move again or attack or do another action with other cost. Is not easy to do but results in a more realist combat.
Thomar_of_Uointer 03-20-07, 12:54 PM	I personally believe that it would somewhat balance out. Larger weapons wielded two-handed would still be the primary damage dealers (power attack, 1 1/2 strength bonus, etc.) but would have fewer attacks per round, while lighter weapons would deal damage through many attacks per round (and just die against DR or regeneration). I fixed that with my Mario D20 rules. The fast class gets an ability that allows it to make attacks of opportunity every time someone misses in melee. However, it's restricted to light weapons (though you can invest in the feature to use heavier weapons). This simulates the traditional video game idea of weak, fast attacks without it being gamebreaking (I always thought it was funny that rogues could deal more damage than a fighter under the right conditions while using smaller weapons). This is further offset by a set of feats that lets a character line up a single attack with bonuses as a full-round action. Only the races and prestige classes are setting-specific, you could easily adapt them to a standard fantasy setting. http://www.kobolds-keep.net/MD20Rules.pdf