Is Fist of Raziel forbidden in Gestalt? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Is Fist of Raziel forbidden in Gestalt? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Taureus_Drakken
12-18-06, 10:51 PM Just curious, because it came up on another board, why is the PrC Fist of Raziel from BoED considered a dual-progression PrC?

It is basically a more powerful Paladin...which a PrC for a Paladin should be...I don't see how one bonus feat and a 9/10 spellcasting progression make it a fighter/cleric.
memberZ
12-19-06, 02:11 AM It's ONLY forbidden if the DM says it is.

It's not much different than a paladin, or what a paladin should end as. Therefore I see no need to ban it.

Now a PrC that expands upon 2 classes at once is more what the ban list should include. Arcane Trickster (basically a wizard and theif at once) or the Mystic Theruge (cleric and wizard at once) are the prime examples of classes that mimic what a gestalt is. It's a bit of double negative theory, one can't gestalt a gestalt.
Kilsek of Sheverash
12-19-06, 12:37 PM There's an official list of banned classes for Gestalt?

Where is this list?

I thought it was a case of there being a few obvious ones, like Mystic Theurge, and the rest the DM rules on case-by-case.

Gestalt scares me because I'm afraid once we do it we'll never go back to "lower powered" standard PCs. Nonetheless we're doing Gestalt for the first time right now.
memberZ
12-19-06, 12:55 PM Kilsek
There isn't a true banned list, it's all about what the DM wants and doesn't want. There are people on the forum that have a pseudo list going and it usually has a flame quality to it when other classes are added.

We went gestalt due to party size. We have now found a nice flavor balance to it. Look at both sides separately and one side has to be a starting class taken to level 20. The other side becomes more a boost to the 20 level class. PrCs can't be added until 7th level. It has made for some interesting characters. Oh and as written LA and Racial hit dice can not be put on either side of the tree, they are calculated separately.
Taureus_Drakken
12-19-06, 01:19 PM Thanks everyone, go check out the Level 30 VoP Smite-Machine on the CO boards to see the aforementioned character.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Taureus_Drakken 12-18-06, 10:51 PM	Just curious, because it came up on another board, why is the PrC Fist of Raziel from BoED considered a dual-progression PrC? It is basically a more powerful Paladin...which a PrC for a Paladin should be...I don't see how one bonus feat and a 9/10 spellcasting progression make it a fighter/cleric.
memberZ 12-19-06, 02:11 AM	It's ONLY forbidden if the DM says it is. It's not much different than a paladin, or what a paladin should end as. Therefore I see no need to ban it. Now a PrC that expands upon 2 classes at once is more what the ban list should include. Arcane Trickster (basically a wizard and theif at once) or the Mystic Theruge (cleric and wizard at once) are the prime examples of classes that mimic what a gestalt is. It's a bit of double negative theory, one can't gestalt a gestalt.
Kilsek of Sheverash 12-19-06, 12:37 PM	There's an official list of banned classes for Gestalt? Where is this list? I thought it was a case of there being a few obvious ones, like Mystic Theurge, and the rest the DM rules on case-by-case. Gestalt scares me because I'm afraid once we do it we'll never go back to "lower powered" standard PCs. Nonetheless we're doing Gestalt for the first time right now.
memberZ 12-19-06, 12:55 PM	Kilsek There isn't a true banned list, it's all about what the DM wants and doesn't want. There are people on the forum that have a pseudo list going and it usually has a flame quality to it when other classes are added. We went gestalt due to party size. We have now found a nice flavor balance to it. Look at both sides separately and one side has to be a starting class taken to level 20. The other side becomes more a boost to the 20 level class. PrCs can't be added until 7th level. It has made for some interesting characters. Oh and as written LA and Racial hit dice can not be put on either side of the tree, they are calculated separately.
Taureus_Drakken 12-19-06, 01:19 PM	Thanks everyone, go check out the Level 30 VoP Smite-Machine on the CO boards to see the aforementioned character.