Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ShinoAburame 02-07-07, 06:13 PM	I cameup with several rules to try and balance the 11 core classes. I'll work on the others later. All spellcasters use the spellpoint rule variety. Barbarian: Column C def bonus. Gains max HP every level. Fighter: Column D def bonus. Can select any [General] feat as bonus feat. Gains max HP every level. Rogue: Column C def bous. Gains max HP every level. Monk: Column C def bonus. Gains max HP every level. Paladin: Column D def bonus. Can use smite with ranged attacks. Gains damage reudction equal to half paladin level (rounded down) against evil creatures. Gains max HP from 1st to 4th level. Ranger: Column D def bonus. Gains max HP from 1st to 4th level. Wizard: Column A def bonus. Does not need consult a spellbook to mesmorize or learn new spells. Can cast spontanously. Has to roll for HP every level. (Including first) Bard: Column B def bonus. Has to roll for HP every level. (Including first) Sorcerer: Column B def bonus. All spells are treated as supernatural. Has to roll HP every level. (Including first) Cleric: Column A def bonus. Can cast spontanously. Loses proficietcy with simple weapons, is only profficient with diety's favored weapon at the start of the game. Suffers spell-failure as an arcane caster. Has to roll HP every level. (Including first) Druid: Column A def bonus. Can cast spontanously. Suffers spell-failure as an arcane caster. Choose a favored terrain at first level, all spells cast outside that type of terrained have a 5% probability of failing. Has to roll HP every level. (Including first)
Krusk 02-07-07, 08:34 PM	What is Column X defense bonus, or where can it be found? i would let clerics get away with light or maybe even medium armor. without spell failure.
Drolath 02-07-07, 10:09 PM	I came up with several rules to try and balance the 11 core classes. I'll work on the others later. Short answer is no. I think you will find that this will seriously mess up your game balance... (Not all of this is strictly game balance, some of it is just things to think about. A different perspective if you will.) Barbarian: Column C def bonus. Gains max HP every level. It's a barbarian, best hit die in the game, why does it need max hit points? (I'll get back to the max hit point thing later) Fighter: Column D def bonus. Can select any [General] feat as bonus feat. Gains max HP every level. I don't see a real problem with the increased feat selection, but again, why Max hit points? Rogue: Column C def bonus. Gains max HP every level. Not having a real issue with the defense bonus, but part of the point of rogues is that they are squishy, so that they have to be careful in combat, this lets them be much more reckless. Again with the max hp... this one seem more a personal preference than a real balance issue. Monk: Column C def bonus. Gains max HP every level. Again with the max hp... Paladin: Column D def bonus. Can use smite with ranged attacks. Gains damage reduction equal to half paladin level (rounded down) against evil creatures. Gains max HP from 1st to 4th level. I don't like the idea of ranged smite, mostly from a flavor standpoint, A smite to me, is the righteous anger of a zealot smacking something up close and personal, and it should only work with weapons that use strength. (Personally I think smite is a little weak to begin with, I think it should be at least +2points/level. When I smite something it should know it was smited!) I really like the DR against Evil creatures, though I think I would make it against any creature that the paladin has successfully smited. This makes less sense to me than straight max hp... Ranger: Column D def bonus. Gains max HP from 1st to 4th level. I personally love the ranger class, so my first reaction is sweet! But I don't think a ranger should have a better base def. than a barbarian. Again with the Huh? Wizard: Column A def bonus. Does not need consult a spellbook to memorize or learn new spells. Can cast spontaneously. Has to roll for HP every level. (Including first) This isn't a wizard, it's a sorcerer. The whole point of the wizard is prepare and study. Spontaneous casting while very cool, goes against what a Wizard is, also see cleric for more on this. And why make the class with the worst hit die in the game roll all hp's when the class with the best hit die gets max hp? This will break the spell casting class. I would never play a caster under these conditions. arguably they casters need the max hp way more than the fighter types. Bard: Column B def bonus. Has to roll for HP every level. (Including first) Uhm... see Wizard. Sorcerer: Column B def bonus. All spells are treated as supernatural. Has to roll HP every level. (Including first) See wizard. I'm not sure, (read; to lazy to look it up), what making their spells supernatural does, but with a worse spell progression, and the only benefit a slightly better Def. Bonus, there is little to no point in playing the sorcerer. Cleric: Column A def bonus. Can cast spontaneously. Loses proficiency with simple weapons, is only proficient with deity's favored weapon at the start of the game. Suffers spell-failure as an arcane caster. Has to roll HP every level. (Including first) Clerics can already cast the really important spells spontaneously, I don't see a reason for changing this. This will also hurt your ability to vex the players, if whatever spell they need they can cast, also I think you will find that it will make them more powerful than you'd like. I.E. a spell that really screws with your bad guy, normally they cast it once, maybe twice, then bam they are out. With this, they just keep blasting till you have nothing left but a smoking pile. This is a bad idea, cool from a flavor standpoint, until you realize that it means that they can't even use a knife, so how do they eat? (Traditionally the knife was the only eating utensil.) Also what if the favored weapon is a bow, or a sling, or some such. If they get into melee combat they are seriously screwed. Either they run away and leave the rest of the group to die, or they provoke AoO all over the place and die, or they suffer a -4 penalty to hit, and can't hit anything, and die. They shouldn't suffer the spell failure for a couple of reasons; 1. They are the healer, so they are consequently the most targeted character in the party. A dead cleric is a useless cleric. 2. Their spells are the gods answering their prayers, I don't think whether or not they are wearing armor is going to affect their god granting their spell. Again, see wizard for the whole hp thing. Druid: Column A def bonus. Can cast spontaneously. Suffers spell-failure as an arcane caster. Choose a favored terrain at first level, all spells cast outside that type of terrain have a 5% probability of failing. Has to roll HP every level. (Including first) This is going to arguably nerf the class to the point that no one would want to play it. See cleric for my answer to the spontaneous casting thing. The favored terrain thing, means that now, not only do they have much crappier HP than a significant portion of the party, but their AC sucks too. This is just too limiting to the character in my opinion. See Wizard for the answer to the HP thing. I have used the class Def. thing, and in my game it made armor pointless, which has the unfortunate side effect of completely closing off an area for treasure awards. Further, they spend all their resources on offensive weaponry, which unbalances the power level of the party. It would have the good side effect of making the whole spell failure thing a moot point however. All in all I think you are going to find that this not only doesn't balance the classes, but in fact, unbalances your whole game, and will make many more headaches than it solves. Please understand, if this is what you really want to do, by all means do so. I'm not trying to tear you a new one, just give you my honest opinion, and try and point out some potential pitfalls. You seem to have completely ramped up the power for melee classes, and nerfed all the spell casting classes. Remember the average campaign never makes it much past 12th level. Casters kind of suck till about 7-8th level as is. As for the whole max HP thing, if you want balance, it needs to be all or nothing, for all the classes. Either they all get it, or none of them do. Otherwise you end up amping up your bad guys to handle the ones that have it, which leaves the ones who don't sucking dirt. Best of luck with your game though, however you decide to go.
ShinoAburame 02-07-07, 10:27 PM	Thanks for the indepth post, I should've described where I got these ideas... Max HP: I cameup with it because I figured spellcasters have spells, which trumps anything else. Weapons, skills, anything. Therfore to standup to them, non-casters need the extra boost. Spell Failure: I decided this was justifiable in-game because armor makes it harder to move, so naturaly somatic components become a problem. Spells without somatic components don't suffer from arcane spell-faulure, so naturaly the same rule would apply to divine spell-failure. Also I figured divine casters needed to be nerfed anyway. Mostly that was my biggest intention, weakining spellcasters and strengthening non-casters so that it doesn't become a magefest at later levels.
ShinoAburame 02-07-07, 10:29 PM	What is Column X defense bonus, or where can it be found? i would let clerics get away with light or maybe even medium armor. without spell failure. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/defenseBonus.htm
Krusk 02-07-07, 11:52 PM	Thanks, looks like you got defense bonuses around right with which class gets which. I would get rid of arcane spell failure on druids, and limit it to the normal druids armor thats already pretty limited. I like how you worked your max hp. but i would take the rogues down to roll for every level after 4. To me they arent combatants and shouldnt get lots of hp.