Just a thought [Archive] - Wizards Community

Just a thought [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
blowfish
06-29-07, 02:08 PM If magical weapons (+2 Longsword) and ability boosting items(gloves of dexterity) weren't available to characters, would it be game breaking to give half BAB, round down, to damage on non-magical attacks? For example, a 20th level fighter would get +10 damage on his first attack, +7 on his second, +5 on his third, and +2 on his fourth.
Thomar_of_Uointer
06-29-07, 10:12 PM If magical weapons (+2 Longsword) and ability boosting items(gloves of dexterity) weren't available to characters, would it be game breaking to give half BAB, round down, to damage on non-magical attacks? For example, a 20th level fighter would get +10 damage on his first attack, +7 on his second, +5 on his third, and +2 on his fourth.

The traditional way of doing a low-magic game where PCs don't rely on ability-boosting items is to give PCs bonus feats at every odd-numbered level and ability score increases at every third level (as oppsed to every third and fourth level).
blowfish
07-03-07, 12:41 PM Extra feats probably wouldn't be enough to take down some of the stronger enemies. I was thinking this boost in damage would be enough to allow the characters to take down the stronger monsters without the use of +5 vorpal greatswords. Monsters with DR might need that DR to be lowered by 5 or 10, but could still have DR. DR X/magic would have to be switched to something else though.
katahn
07-03-07, 02:24 PM The CR of the player is (or should be) influenced by the gear they have. If they have weak gear, you need to adjust the enemies they fight to be beatable by the gear they do have. I'd be a bit reluctant to add the "half BaB as bonus to non-magical damage" rule, but instead add in more specialized weaknesses. I'm thinking things like silver bypassing the DR of lycanthropes for instance. Just add in a few things like that.
Dan Hemmens
07-03-07, 06:12 PM To answer the question: it doesn't seem game-breaking to me.
trapspringer
07-03-07, 10:41 PM That sounds OK to me, but there's more to D&D than damage.
Vaelan
07-04-07, 12:06 AM I agree with trapspringer. It looks like a decent substitute for a small portion of the magical items the party would be deprived of.
blowfish
07-04-07, 12:21 AM I understand there is more to D&D than damage as the only two magic items I mentioned hypothetically not being available were those that would help in damage output. Other things would need to be done to help counter balance not being able to fly or become invisible. All my thought was concerning damage output. Thanks for all the comments.
Dan Hemmens
07-04-07, 06:37 AM I understand there is more to D&D than damage as the only two magic items I mentioned hypothetically not being available were those that would help in damage output. Other things would need to be done to help counter balance not being able to fly or become invisible. All my thought was concerning damage output. Thanks for all the comments.

I don't think "not being able to fly or become invisible" really *needs* a counterbalance.

High-level encounters are balanced on the assumption that the PCs will have a huge damage output. They aren't balanced on the assumption that the PCs will be invisibly flying above the monsters' heads raining napalm death on them.
trapspringer
07-04-07, 01:37 PM Erm, actually...
Bobson
07-04-07, 02:40 PM If you're removing magic items, you need to next decide if you're removing all or nearly-all magic, or if you're just removing the ability to bind magic into items (i.e. no craft feats).

If the former, I highly recommend looking into the Iron Heroes system. It has classes and feats designed specifically for non-magical campaigns.

If the latter, a properly prepared party won't even notice. Replace a +3 weapon with Greater Magic Weapon, cast as a 12th level caster, and it'll last for 12 hours, which is likely more than long enough. Replace the belt of strength +4 or +6 with lots of bull's strength spells (a 12th level cleric can afford to prepare 3-4 bull's strength, and cast one before each fight).
Etc.
Vaelan
07-05-07, 12:14 AM Other things would need to be done to help counter balance not being able to fly or become invisible.

All you really need to balance with new mechanics are numeric bonuses. The rest is a matter of encounter choice.

Nobody can fly? Probably shouldn't be putting them up against a flier with ranged attacks.
Werral
07-13-07, 11:45 AM As long as they have ranged attacks themselves they should be okay - otherwise - force them to fight indoors where they don't have a flying advantage.

Invisibility? Chuck a bag of flour over them.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
blowfish 06-29-07, 02:08 PM	If magical weapons (+2 Longsword) and ability boosting items(gloves of dexterity) weren't available to characters, would it be game breaking to give half BAB, round down, to damage on non-magical attacks? For example, a 20th level fighter would get +10 damage on his first attack, +7 on his second, +5 on his third, and +2 on his fourth.
Thomar_of_Uointer 06-29-07, 10:12 PM	If magical weapons (+2 Longsword) and ability boosting items(gloves of dexterity) weren't available to characters, would it be game breaking to give half BAB, round down, to damage on non-magical attacks? For example, a 20th level fighter would get +10 damage on his first attack, +7 on his second, +5 on his third, and +2 on his fourth. The traditional way of doing a low-magic game where PCs don't rely on ability-boosting items is to give PCs bonus feats at every odd-numbered level and ability score increases at every third level (as oppsed to every third and fourth level).
blowfish 07-03-07, 12:41 PM	Extra feats probably wouldn't be enough to take down some of the stronger enemies. I was thinking this boost in damage would be enough to allow the characters to take down the stronger monsters without the use of +5 vorpal greatswords. Monsters with DR might need that DR to be lowered by 5 or 10, but could still have DR. DR X/magic would have to be switched to something else though.
katahn 07-03-07, 02:24 PM	The CR of the player is (or should be) influenced by the gear they have. If they have weak gear, you need to adjust the enemies they fight to be beatable by the gear they do have. I'd be a bit reluctant to add the "half BaB as bonus to non-magical damage" rule, but instead add in more specialized weaknesses. I'm thinking things like silver bypassing the DR of lycanthropes for instance. Just add in a few things like that.
Dan Hemmens 07-03-07, 06:12 PM	To answer the question: it doesn't seem game-breaking to me.
trapspringer 07-03-07, 10:41 PM	That sounds OK to me, but there's more to D&D than damage.
Vaelan 07-04-07, 12:06 AM	I agree with trapspringer. It looks like a decent substitute for a small portion of the magical items the party would be deprived of.
blowfish 07-04-07, 12:21 AM	I understand there is more to D&D than damage as the only two magic items I mentioned hypothetically not being available were those that would help in damage output. Other things would need to be done to help counter balance not being able to fly or become invisible. All my thought was concerning damage output. Thanks for all the comments.
Dan Hemmens 07-04-07, 06:37 AM	I understand there is more to D&D than damage as the only two magic items I mentioned hypothetically not being available were those that would help in damage output. Other things would need to be done to help counter balance not being able to fly or become invisible. All my thought was concerning damage output. Thanks for all the comments. I don't think "not being able to fly or become invisible" really needs a counterbalance. High-level encounters are balanced on the assumption that the PCs will have a huge damage output. They aren't balanced on the assumption that the PCs will be invisibly flying above the monsters' heads raining napalm death on them.
trapspringer 07-04-07, 01:37 PM	Erm, actually...
Bobson 07-04-07, 02:40 PM	If you're removing magic items, you need to next decide if you're removing all or nearly-all magic, or if you're just removing the ability to bind magic into items (i.e. no craft feats). If the former, I highly recommend looking into the Iron Heroes system. It has classes and feats designed specifically for non-magical campaigns. If the latter, a properly prepared party won't even notice. Replace a +3 weapon with Greater Magic Weapon, cast as a 12th level caster, and it'll last for 12 hours, which is likely more than long enough. Replace the belt of strength +4 or +6 with lots of bull's strength spells (a 12th level cleric can afford to prepare 3-4 bull's strength, and cast one before each fight). Etc.
Vaelan 07-05-07, 12:14 AM	Other things would need to be done to help counter balance not being able to fly or become invisible. All you really need to balance with new mechanics are numeric bonuses. The rest is a matter of encounter choice. Nobody can fly? Probably shouldn't be putting them up against a flier with ranged attacks.
Werral 07-13-07, 11:45 AM	As long as they have ranged attacks themselves they should be okay - otherwise - force them to fight indoors where they don't have a flying advantage. Invisibility? Chuck a bag of flour over them.