Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rolof 12-06-06, 03:11 AM	I've never DM'ed in 3.5, but I have previous DM experience, and I'm thinking about becoming the new DM when our group's current campaign is finished, to allow our DM to actually play. One thing I've noticed is that most of the high- powered character builds involve lots of level dips...taking an ability here, and a bonus feat there, etc. So I'm considering a houserule when and if I take on the DM duties: Characters have a 'favored prestige class' in addition to regular favored class. Additional prestige classes beyond the first are treated the same way that an additional class is treated in the PHB section on multiclassing. Thus, a player with a character who had a Level 5 regular class, level 4 prestige class1, level 3 prestige class2, and level 1 prestige class3 would suffer experience penalty. The drawback to the above idea, is that I either would have to figure out any given character's favored racial prestige class (a daunting task, and sure to annoy somebody if I don't pick the one they want), or simply allow the player to pick one favored prestige class, the way a Human gets favored class-any for regular classes...which sorta steps on the toes of the Human racial ability. The other thing that occurred to me is that, since some prestige classes only go up to 5 levels, it might be a bit unfair to a player who wasn't really trying to do the 'level dip' thing. One possible fix I thought of in a case like that is to give a free feat to any player who COMPLETES the listed levels of any class, which is ONLY usable to obtain 'additional favored class'.
IdleAltruism 12-06-06, 04:24 AM	I don't think favored prestige class would work very well. What about limiting it to one prestige class until you've finished it. Or put restrictions on prestige classes, example prestige classes must fit with the character concept and they should have a very good reason other then 'cool abilities' to get in. You could put prestige classes in orginizations that accept only certain people and you can't belong to more then one, example The Order of the Archmage. You could flat out restrict certain prestige classes or make them harder to get into. Maybe in order to gain a prestige class they must undergo a quest or they have to past a test or anything similar. I think its the complete mage that has a list of challenges you must undertake before gaining access to a prestige class.
Carmath The Pure 12-06-06, 04:24 AM	An easier way to explain your restriction is "Any prestige class after the first suffers an XP penalty, unless the PC has taken all available levels of that class." As you wrote it, you would probably have even more level-dipping--if they take one level of a bunch of PrCs they still avoid the penalty. I'll hold judgement on the concept until I've had more time to think about it, but at first blush I don't think it would be too unbalancing.
Kursk 12-07-06, 03:47 PM	I rule that PrC's are 1/2 class for xp penalty.
Novabomb 12-07-06, 04:42 PM	Before continuing consider this: Do you dislike powerful builds? Are there alternative reasons why you wish to limit the amount of prestige classes a character may have? If you answer no to both of these then do not bother making a house rule. Another thing you should consider is this: Does inventing such a rule solve problems? The way I see it, the current implimentation of the rule encourages a single prestige class, or more likely a bunch of 1-2 lvl dips so that all prestige classes stay within one lvl of each other, rather than 1 main prestige class and a bit of another. Since prestige classes do not go over 10 lvl, I think this will endorse people to dip more.
Fargren 12-07-06, 05:38 PM	There are simpler solutions. Ask your palyers how powerful their characters are, what's the most powerful thing they cna do, how often they can do it, etc. If you think some character is too powerful, discuss with it's player. Search for a way to modify his character so that he can still fit his concet without breaking the game. And warn the players that you may do this before they start building their characters.
Vaelan 12-08-06, 03:51 AM	I don't think such a rule is necessary. First of all, I don't think there is anything wrong with dipping. It can be nothing more than building a set of abilities that one thinks represents their character accurately. If you want to discourage dipping, tie each Prestige Class to an organization that heaps responsibilities on their members. Maybe some people will be willing to juggle several organizations. Others will choose to neglect their responsibilities and likely suffer for it.
Thought 12-08-06, 04:35 PM	As your first 3.5 DMing experience, it is definitely a good idea to limit the number of prestige classes available. Keep in mind; no one is entitled to take a Prestige Class. These tend to add significant to a character's power (or versatility) and add an unnecessary element that can just muddle things until you get more experience under your belt. Of course, with your previous experience this might not be a problem. Personally, if you want to discourage multi-prestiging, I'd recommend treating them the exact same as a base class, in terms of cross classing. Every character who has only a favored base class could take a Prestige class without an EXP penalty. After that, another PrC or base class has an exp penalty attached. Or, conversely, work the rules in the opposite manner. In such a case, base classes wouldn’t have multi-class exp penalties, but PrC classes would.
Fargren 12-08-06, 07:47 PM	Personally, if you want to discourage multi-prestiging, I'd recommend treating them the exact same as a base class, in terms of cross classing. Every character who has only a favored base class could take a Prestige class without an EXP penalty. After that, another PrC or base class has an exp penalty attached. Or, conversely, work the rules in the opposite manner. In such a case, base classes wouldn’t have multi-class exp penalties, but PrC classes would. So now Mystic Theurge or Eldritch Knight are unplaybale without exp penalty...
Thomar_of_Uointer 12-09-06, 01:53 PM	It seems to me that your biggest problem is the use of multiple sources. As long as you're only using the PHB and DMG, you won't have any problems with this sort of stuff. As the DM, it's up to you what gets included in your campaign.
FlameLover 12-11-06, 06:15 PM	I don't recommend changing the rules, just inform players you will be enforcing PrC organizations - which are part of the rules anyway. Ask them to tell you if they're aiming for a particular PrC so you can give them an opporunity to get in, and give them duties or tasks every now and then so that they feel a part of the organization. Even PrCs without a usual organiztion I recommend giving one to, like Assasins or Dragon Disciple. Finally, make it clear most organizations aren't happy with you forming an allegiance with other groups. Make sure players understand this, but try to remain flexible within the scope provided. That's my suggestion. I run with similar rules and I've never had a player take more than 1 PrC, despite the fact I said I wouldn't be hard on them. They just didn't feel the need.
Kursk 12-11-06, 06:27 PM	I don't recommend changing the rules, Actually the rules are that PrC's only exist at the preference of the DM.... So...
summerstar 12-11-06, 06:54 PM	I recommend letting your PC's min/max to their hearts delight... my only suggestion would be to assure they have a valid role-playing rationale for any choices they have made.
Bowmore 12-12-06, 12:40 AM	I recommend letting your PC's min/max to their hearts delight... my only suggestion would be to assure they have a valid role-playing rationale for any choices they have made. This is how I've been DMing since I started playing 3rd edition. Unless a character hears about or already knows about (the latter through an appropriate knowledge skill, perhaps) a particular prestige class, then goes and seeks training from a member of that class, then he's not allowed to take levels in it. There are a few exceptions, of course, such as classes with ability stemming from natural talent or skills that could arguably be self-trained or that could 'come naturally'. They are, however, the exception and I do those on a case-by-case basis. I've had my share of disgruntled power-gamers and min-maxers leave the table because they couldn't provide a valid in-character reason for dipping into three separate prestige classes, or because I insisted that they couldn't just walk into a store and buy a +3 flaming keen greatsword. In my games, very little happens 'behind the scenes'.
CroBob 12-15-06, 04:50 AM	First time DMing is simple, limit everything to the core books. Run a campaign that way to it's conclusion or until people lose interest. Then move on.
skywyze 12-15-06, 05:12 AM	A friend of mine just DMed earlier this semester and he didn't allow ANY prestige classes. It was grand! It wasn't a long campaign, but the fact that there was no room for powergaming was so liberating. Choose a style of character and stick with it. Don't mix and match to create the uber cyberdemon of doom. Just play a base class and use your brain to make them powerful. Highly recommended.
Kursk 12-16-06, 02:21 PM	A friend of mine just DMed earlier this semester and he didn't allow ANY prestige classes. It was grand! It wasn't a long campaign, but the fact that there was no room for powergaming was so liberating. Choose a style of character and stick with it. Don't mix and match to create the uber cyberdemon of doom. Just play a base class and use your brain to make them powerful. Highly recommended. That is great. Agree that it puts the attention on brain power and creativity. Role playing becomes more focused. Like the game was intended to be.
Pellanor 12-22-06, 01:43 PM	A friend of mine just DMed earlier this semester and he didn't allow ANY prestige classes. It was grand! It wasn't a long campaign, but the fact that there was no room for powergaming was so liberating. Choose a style of character and stick with it. Don't mix and match to create the uber cyberdemon of doom. Just play a base class and use your brain to make them powerful. Highly recommended.lol no room for powergaming without prestige classes. That's a good one. Enter CoDzilla! That is great. Agree that it puts the attention on brain power and creativity. Role playing becomes more focused. Like the game was intended to be.Who are you to tell me how the game was intended to be played? Obviously it was intended to be played in whichever manner each group enjoys most. And how do Prestige classes reduce the need for brain power and creativity? Take a look at some of the builds on the Char Ops boards, the ones that have prestige classes in them, and tell me those don't require brainpower or creativity. Back to the original topic: As CoDzilla (and pun-pun) demonstrates, you don't need to dip a lot of different prestige classes in order to make a powerful character. Often it's better not to dip too much, especially with spellcasters. However if you do want to limit characters, I would suggest you do so on a case by case basis. As was mentioned earlier, you don't need to limit prestige classes. Just make sure that you go over each one that a player wants, and make sure you understand what it's doing for them. From there you can decide if it's too powerful.
Krusk 12-22-06, 04:48 PM	My general rule for allowing multiple prestige classes. If you havent finished the first one, you are not able to go into a second. I do multiclassing as normal. Keeps everything simple.
Kursk 12-22-06, 07:05 PM	Who are you to tell me how the game was intended to be played? I am an Uber diety. Do you need more data?