Low magic campaign house rules? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Low magic campaign house rules? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
jamie_noone
03-05-05, 03:33 PM I'm thinking about running a low magic campaign, and I'm trying to come up with house rules to compensate for the lack of magic and magic items. The issues I need to address (that I can think of) are: AC, saves, healing, item identification. So far, I've been thinking about the AC and saves problems.

For AC, I was thinking I might use the 'class defense bonus' and 'armor as DR' variations from Unearthed Arcana (pgs 109 & 111, respectively) but having them stack.

I think I may also adjust which characters use each column in the Defense Bonus Table (4-1) on page 110, but I don't know what to base my judgements on other than gut feeling.

If the PCs ever find magic armor, instead of adding the enhancement to the AC, I was thinking I might just recalculate the AC/DR the way UA explains it in the text. So the +3 chain shirt that UA uses as an example on pg 111, would instead provide +4 to AC and grant damage reduction of 3/-.

For saves, I was thinking instead of having 'good' and 'poor' saves, each class would instead have 'good' and 'average' saves. The 'average' save progression would be calculated by adding the good and poor saves and dividing by 2 and rounding down at each level. So, for example, a 5th level fighter would have fort, ref, and will saves of +4, +2, +2, respectively.

Also, to supplement their saves, I was thinking of giving each class a "save bonus feat" every five levels beginning at level 5, and allowing save feats to stack. So, for example, a fighter could take Iron Will twice for +4 to his Will saves.

I'd appreciate any constructive criticism from those of you who have more experience playing/DMing.

Thanks in advance.
Jamie
scwolf
03-05-05, 03:52 PM For saves, I was thinking instead of having 'good' and 'poor' saves, each class would instead have 'good' and 'average' saves. The 'average' save progression would be calculated by adding the good and poor saves and dividing by 2 and rounding down at each level. So, for example, a 5th level fighter would have fort, ref, and will saves of +4, +2, +2, respectively.

IIRC, d20 Modern and Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed make use of a "Medium Save", that would be conceptually the same. However, when they use them, they use all three, instead of using it as a new 'Poor' Save as you're going to be doing.

Just keep in mind, that by bringing the saves closer together, you're making the classes slightly less distinctive from each other.
Hugin
03-06-05, 10:10 PM I run a moderately low-magic campaign. Some of the things I do to compensate are:

For AC, I have character's gain a +1 "natural deflection bonus" for every two points of BAB. It's only been play-tested up to level 6 so far but it seems to work very well. I find it very odd that characters improve their attack combat ability naturally, but don't learn how to defend themselves outside the special focus of a feat.

I haven't found any need to alter saves.

Healing is a different story altogether. Most people on these boards will say "he smacked it with the nerf-stick", but the entire group thought it was a cool idea for flavour purposes. Basically, healing does not occur instantly. Roll for how many hit points are healed with the spell as normal, however the hp may be spread out over a couple of rounds.

The maximum healed in one round is equal to the caster's level plus the ability modifier associated this his spell casting. For Example, a fifth level cleric with a wisdom of 17 casts cure serious wounds and rolls 15+5 (for caster level) for 20 hp of healing. However, only 8 points will actually be healed each round, for the first two rounds, and then 4 points on the third round.

I haven't altered item identification but magic items are much more complexe IMC. They usually have a primary and a secondary function that's more specialized and more powerful (sometimes yet another). There will never be found an ordinary +1 dagger. Most magical items also have a ward on them to keep the "wrong people" from using them. These require some research and magics to remove.
jamie_noone
03-06-05, 10:35 PM I think I may also adjust which characters use each column in the Defense Bonus Table (4-1) on page 110, but I don't know what to base my judgements on other than gut feeling.
Now, I'm thinking I might base it on the class' BAB progression. Those with full BAB use Column D, those with 3/4 BAB use Column C, and those with 1/2 BAB (though I'm not sure there are any, since I eliminated spellcasters) would use Column B, and Column A wouldn't be used.

Not sure about multiclassing. Maybe use the column for whichever class has the most ranks - in the case of 50/50 split, use the higher of the two. I don't want rogues dipping one level into fighter just to gain the higher defense bonus. So a rog4/ftr2 would use Column C, but a rog3/ftr3 would use Column D.

As for healing, I'm thinking maybe lower the Long Term Care DC to 10, and say that if the check succeeds, the healer immediately heals hit points equal to the check minus 10. This check can only be tried once per day per subject (patient). The hit points gained immediately remain whether or not the patient rests for 8 hours or for the full day. The wounded person still regains hit points at the improved rate, as well. So, if someone has 6 ranks in heal and a wisdom score of 12, and uses a healing kit, and rolls a 12, for a total of 21, to heal the party fighter, he would heal 11 points immediately, and if the level 3 fighter rests for 8 hours, he also gains 6 hit points at the end of the 8 hours.

Another thought, either instead or in addition, is that the normal rate of healing for a character is his con bonus (with a minimum of one) times his character level. So a lvl 3 fighter with a con of 14 would regain 6 hp with 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep, or 12 hp with a full day and night's bed rest. With a successful long term care check, he'd regain 12 hp with 8 hrs sleep, or 24 hp with a full day & night's bed rest.

Another thing to consider to make the odds a little more even for the PCs: should I give them full hit points at each level instead of having them roll for them?

Thanks in advance.
Jamie
jamie_noone
03-06-05, 11:06 PM Healing is a different story altogether. Most people on these boards will say "he smacked it with the nerf-stick", but the entire group thought it was a cool idea for flavour purposes. Basically, healing does not occur instantly. Roll for how many hit points are healed with the spell as normal, however the hp may be spread out over a couple of rounds.

The maximum healed in one round is equal to the caster's level plus the ability modifier associated this his spell casting. For Example, a fifth level cleric with a wisdom of 17 casts cure serious wounds and rolls 15+5 (for caster level) for 20 hp of healing. However, only 8 points will actually be healed each round, for the first two rounds, and then 4 points on the third round.I should have explained earlier, in the campaign I'm considering, there wouldn't be any casters, so I'm thinking I'll have to revise the Healing skill to fill that role.

In addition, I think I'll make skills more flexible, since the classes are limited to non-spellcasters and a modified, non-casting ranger. At the character's first level, I'd allow players to substitute the class' class skills as they see fit (excluding craft, profession, or knowledge skills). So a 1st level fighter might have Heal instead of Jump, or something. But if he multiclassed at 2nd level, he wouldn't be able to substitute any of that class' class skills.

If my players don't go for my 'no casters, nearly no magic' campaign, I'll probably go with trimmed spell lists, and I may borrow your Cure Wounds mods in that case, if you don't mind.

Thanks,
Jamie
Hugin
03-06-05, 11:31 PM I should have explained earlier, in the campaign I'm considering, there wouldn't be any casters, so I'm thinking I'll have to revise the Healing skill to fill that role.
That sounds like a good idea. Maybe you could come up with some healing salves and ointments that require some high skill checks to make and somewhat costly ingredients that experts create. They could "heal" some hit points, although it would likely be a small amount, and/or help increase natural healing.

and I may borrow your Cure Wounds mods in that case, if you don't mind.
Not at all, you're welcome to it.
Lord_Anthrax
03-07-05, 07:37 AM You might consider taking a look at the Black Company Campaign Setting(by Green Ronin), it has some good options in it on using ordinary medical skills to aid in healing someone's wounds.
Vatras
03-09-05, 12:28 AM Avoid any class ability or general formula for raising AC like the plague. You will get ridiculous high ACs compared to the attack ratings (nobody can hit himself). The best way to fudge with ACs if at all is introducing materials or armor types with higher ACs.
NineInchNall
03-09-05, 03:25 PM Or you could just not compensate for the lack of magic items at all. This may sound crazy, but hear me out.

The whole point of a low magic game is to make the magic stuff seem all the more special, right? Then by making characters more self-sufficient you're lessening the effect of having fewer magic items around. In a low magic world difficult enemies should be extremely difficult. Entire quests could be built around retrieving a weapon or item powerful enough to kill a single CR 7 creature (read: get past its DR).

Now, this obviously entails changing the distribution of enemies that the PCs will face. For example, no throwing hordes of werecreatures at a group of level 5 characters -- unless you have some way for them to be rescued in the middle of it. In a low magic game the PCs will be mostly concerned with fighting other normal humanoids, while the occasional magical enemy takes on a frightening level of power. It's a totally different flavor.

That's just my take on it, but, well, meh.
HailSpork
03-09-05, 10:23 PM I find it very odd that characters improve their attack combat ability naturally, but don't learn how to defend themselves outside the special focus of a feat.
That's what hit points are. Learning to defend yourself by taking hits better.
Still, it did always bother me that the number of openings for attack you get is based completely on your skill and not on your opponent's skill... I guess that makes more sense against monsters.
Lina_Inverse
03-10-05, 07:46 AM Or you could just not compensate for the lack of magic items at all. This may sound crazy, but hear me out.

The whole point of a low magic game is to make the magic stuff seem all the more special, right? Then by making characters more self-sufficient you're lessening the effect of having fewer magic items around. In a low magic world difficult enemies should be extremely difficult. Entire quests could be built around retrieving a weapon or item powerful enough to kill a single CR 7 creature (read: get past its DR).

Now, this obviously entails changing the distribution of enemies that the PCs will face. For example, no throwing hordes of werecreatures at a group of level 5 characters -- unless you have some way for them to be rescued in the middle of it. In a low magic game the PCs will be mostly concerned with fighting other normal humanoids, while the occasional magical enemy takes on a frightening level of power. It's a totally different flavor.

That's just my take on it, but, well, meh.

CR system.take out magic and dont include stuff to balence it.you guarente
A.fighter types are worthless.as a fighter by lvl10 is just his gear.
B.PCs will not meet the CR assumptions
C.2 levels will not be +100% power(a CR assumption)
D.casters,all the pcs will have to be casters.and not wizards either.

you clearly dont understand the game rules.
Vanamir
03-10-05, 08:50 AM For AC, I have character's gain a +1 "natural deflection bonus" for every two points of BAB. It's only been play-tested up to level 6 so far but it seems to work very well. I find it very odd that characters improve their attack combat ability naturally, but don't learn how to defend themselves outside the special focus of a feat.

I used the same house rule and it worked quite well until level 6 or 7 and after that it became a complete mess. As soon as the fighter types get a substantial BAB and the casters can afford to prepare several buffing spells the AC still get through the roof. Even with absolutely no magic items it will break down around level 10 or 12 i guess.
scwolf
03-10-05, 01:40 PM CR system.

People played this game for two and a half decades before a formalized CR system was put in place. It may be a little more work to have to determine encounter design and XP awards by DM judgement vs. a simple numerical rating system, but it can be done.
Vanamir
03-10-05, 05:01 PM People played this game for two and a half decades before a formalized CR system was put in place. It may be a little more work to have to determine encounter design and XP awards by DM judgement vs. a simple numerical rating system, but it can be done.

Especially if you consider that CRs are only guidelines anyway. That's why the DMG (at least in 3.0E) explicitly told you to adjust XP rewards according to how encounters actually played out. IMX personal judgment of a monster's abilities is much more accurate than most given CRs.
NineInchNall
03-11-05, 06:28 PM CR system.take out magic and dont include stuff to balence it.you guarente
A.fighter types are worthless.as a fighter by lvl10 is just his gear.
B.PCs will not meet the CR assumptions
C.2 levels will not be +100% power(a CR assumption)
D.casters,all the pcs will have to be casters.and not wizards either.

you clearly dont understand the game rules.

Excuse me? Seriously, did you start playing D&D with 3e?

When you play in a game with low magic, your PCs have to take on weaker stuff. It's as simple as that. Does it mean that they should get less experience for it? Probably not, as experience should be based upon the actual challenge presented by an enemy, not some number called "CR" that is divorced from the specifics of a particular campaign.

If you play low magic, then you are accepting the fact that your characters will not be as powerful as they otherwise would be, and so will have a harder time against many enemies. This is one of the reasons people play in low magic games. The challenge is there, and the wonder of picking up that +2 greatsword is restored. If you're playing in a low magic game, then that CR 18 for the Balor isn't likely going to be correct. I thought that that was obvious enough not to warrant mentioning explicitly. :rolleyes:
ClothedUpon
03-11-05, 07:25 PM That's what hit points are. Learning to defend yourself by taking hits better.
My apologies to all. I didn't see this thread before starting my Fixing Flintstone Fighters thread.

I like your definition of hit points. The only problem is that it takes so long for them to heal without magical aid. If you're learning to "take the hits better" why couldn't you also recover faster from fights? One Hit point per character level isn't all that fast, especially in a low magic setting and/or a setting where the use of heavier armors was quite rare.
HailSpork
03-12-05, 06:44 AM Thanks. Glad you liked it.

Mostly, those are balance issues.
Spells that deal damage do so based on the caster instead of the recipient, so healing spells are the same. (exceptions for elemental immunities, vulnerabilities, dr, etc.)

The current healing system actually makes it so your expected healing time is (%damage taken)*(hit die/2+con mod). On the bright side, the actual amount of dice is irrelevent to the time, only what die you roll. Note that this is extraordinarily counter-intuitive.
So, the more hit dice you have, the more hp you have. But when you get more hit dice, it doesn't slow down the amount of time it takes to fully heal.
cainblueriver76
03-14-05, 08:36 PM If you look in Tome and Blood (I think) they have an alchemical mixture called a healing salve, it is the equivelent of a potion of cure light wounds. Just adjust the DC to make it, and use a Heal check, or profession Herbalist check to make it.

It takes no check to apply, but allow someone with heal to make a check when applying it, and if successful it heals the D8 plus 1 or 2 due to the person "knowing how to properly apply" the healing salve.
Agent Johnson
03-15-05, 01:49 AM I have been working on a campaign world that does not include any of the "primary" spellcasting classes, except for Warlocks. Now, this obviously raises the Warlock to a new level of power, and thus I have been looking for ways to modify the class in order to make sure that it is not grotesquely overpowered. Any suggestions in that department would certainly be appreciated.

Also, I must say that I believe a low-magic world, such as one with no primary spellcasters, can actually add to the role playing experience. This is, of course, subject to your personal preferences in role playing, but I am fond of a world where how good you are at something, be it diplomatic relations, stealth or martial combat, cannot simply be replaced by a spell or two. When a rogue has Disable Device, Hide, Open Lock, Move Silently and Search all at scores above ten, it can be a real buzz kill when two or three spells serve as a complete and unfalliable countermeasure.
rbingham2000
03-15-05, 05:13 AM I will point you to the Creatures section of the D20 Modern RPG (or the D20 Modern SRD, if you do not have the corebook). Right at the end of that section, it gives pointers on researching monsters and finding out their weaknesses. It then gives you the effects that various weaknesses have on the monsters that have them.

The reason I'm doing this is to show how another D20 game, which is low-magic by nature, handles the classic problem of monsters being too tough for characters to take on without lots of hit points, magic, or both.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jamie_noone 03-05-05, 03:33 PM	I'm thinking about running a low magic campaign, and I'm trying to come up with house rules to compensate for the lack of magic and magic items. The issues I need to address (that I can think of) are: AC, saves, healing, item identification. So far, I've been thinking about the AC and saves problems. For AC, I was thinking I might use the 'class defense bonus' and 'armor as DR' variations from Unearthed Arcana (pgs 109 & 111, respectively) but having them stack. I think I may also adjust which characters use each column in the Defense Bonus Table (4-1) on page 110, but I don't know what to base my judgements on other than gut feeling. If the PCs ever find magic armor, instead of adding the enhancement to the AC, I was thinking I might just recalculate the AC/DR the way UA explains it in the text. So the +3 chain shirt that UA uses as an example on pg 111, would instead provide +4 to AC and grant damage reduction of 3/-. For saves, I was thinking instead of having 'good' and 'poor' saves, each class would instead have 'good' and 'average' saves. The 'average' save progression would be calculated by adding the good and poor saves and dividing by 2 and rounding down at each level. So, for example, a 5th level fighter would have fort, ref, and will saves of +4, +2, +2, respectively. Also, to supplement their saves, I was thinking of giving each class a "save bonus feat" every five levels beginning at level 5, and allowing save feats to stack. So, for example, a fighter could take Iron Will twice for +4 to his Will saves. I'd appreciate any constructive criticism from those of you who have more experience playing/DMing. Thanks in advance. Jamie
scwolf 03-05-05, 03:52 PM	For saves, I was thinking instead of having 'good' and 'poor' saves, each class would instead have 'good' and 'average' saves. The 'average' save progression would be calculated by adding the good and poor saves and dividing by 2 and rounding down at each level. So, for example, a 5th level fighter would have fort, ref, and will saves of +4, +2, +2, respectively. IIRC, d20 Modern and Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed make use of a "Medium Save", that would be conceptually the same. However, when they use them, they use all three, instead of using it as a new 'Poor' Save as you're going to be doing. Just keep in mind, that by bringing the saves closer together, you're making the classes slightly less distinctive from each other.
Hugin 03-06-05, 10:10 PM	I run a moderately low-magic campaign. Some of the things I do to compensate are: For AC, I have character's gain a +1 "natural deflection bonus" for every two points of BAB. It's only been play-tested up to level 6 so far but it seems to work very well. I find it very odd that characters improve their attack combat ability naturally, but don't learn how to defend themselves outside the special focus of a feat. I haven't found any need to alter saves. Healing is a different story altogether. Most people on these boards will say "he smacked it with the nerf-stick", but the entire group thought it was a cool idea for flavour purposes. Basically, healing does not occur instantly. Roll for how many hit points are healed with the spell as normal, however the hp may be spread out over a couple of rounds. The maximum healed in one round is equal to the caster's level plus the ability modifier associated this his spell casting. For Example, a fifth level cleric with a wisdom of 17 casts cure serious wounds and rolls 15+5 (for caster level) for 20 hp of healing. However, only 8 points will actually be healed each round, for the first two rounds, and then 4 points on the third round. I haven't altered item identification but magic items are much more complexe IMC. They usually have a primary and a secondary function that's more specialized and more powerful (sometimes yet another). There will never be found an ordinary +1 dagger. Most magical items also have a ward on them to keep the "wrong people" from using them. These require some research and magics to remove.
jamie_noone 03-06-05, 10:35 PM	I think I may also adjust which characters use each column in the Defense Bonus Table (4-1) on page 110, but I don't know what to base my judgements on other than gut feeling. Now, I'm thinking I might base it on the class' BAB progression. Those with full BAB use Column D, those with 3/4 BAB use Column C, and those with 1/2 BAB (though I'm not sure there are any, since I eliminated spellcasters) would use Column B, and Column A wouldn't be used. Not sure about multiclassing. Maybe use the column for whichever class has the most ranks - in the case of 50/50 split, use the higher of the two. I don't want rogues dipping one level into fighter just to gain the higher defense bonus. So a rog4/ftr2 would use Column C, but a rog3/ftr3 would use Column D. As for healing, I'm thinking maybe lower the Long Term Care DC to 10, and say that if the check succeeds, the healer immediately heals hit points equal to the check minus 10. This check can only be tried once per day per subject (patient). The hit points gained immediately remain whether or not the patient rests for 8 hours or for the full day. The wounded person still regains hit points at the improved rate, as well. So, if someone has 6 ranks in heal and a wisdom score of 12, and uses a healing kit, and rolls a 12, for a total of 21, to heal the party fighter, he would heal 11 points immediately, and if the level 3 fighter rests for 8 hours, he also gains 6 hit points at the end of the 8 hours. Another thought, either instead or in addition, is that the normal rate of healing for a character is his con bonus (with a minimum of one) times his character level. So a lvl 3 fighter with a con of 14 would regain 6 hp with 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep, or 12 hp with a full day and night's bed rest. With a successful long term care check, he'd regain 12 hp with 8 hrs sleep, or 24 hp with a full day & night's bed rest. Another thing to consider to make the odds a little more even for the PCs: should I give them full hit points at each level instead of having them roll for them? Thanks in advance. Jamie
jamie_noone 03-06-05, 11:06 PM	Healing is a different story altogether. Most people on these boards will say "he smacked it with the nerf-stick", but the entire group thought it was a cool idea for flavour purposes. Basically, healing does not occur instantly. Roll for how many hit points are healed with the spell as normal, however the hp may be spread out over a couple of rounds. The maximum healed in one round is equal to the caster's level plus the ability modifier associated this his spell casting. For Example, a fifth level cleric with a wisdom of 17 casts cure serious wounds and rolls 15+5 (for caster level) for 20 hp of healing. However, only 8 points will actually be healed each round, for the first two rounds, and then 4 points on the third round.I should have explained earlier, in the campaign I'm considering, there wouldn't be any casters, so I'm thinking I'll have to revise the Healing skill to fill that role. In addition, I think I'll make skills more flexible, since the classes are limited to non-spellcasters and a modified, non-casting ranger. At the character's first level, I'd allow players to substitute the class' class skills as they see fit (excluding craft, profession, or knowledge skills). So a 1st level fighter might have Heal instead of Jump, or something. But if he multiclassed at 2nd level, he wouldn't be able to substitute any of that class' class skills. If my players don't go for my 'no casters, nearly no magic' campaign, I'll probably go with trimmed spell lists, and I may borrow your Cure Wounds mods in that case, if you don't mind. Thanks, Jamie
Hugin 03-06-05, 11:31 PM	I should have explained earlier, in the campaign I'm considering, there wouldn't be any casters, so I'm thinking I'll have to revise the Healing skill to fill that role. That sounds like a good idea. Maybe you could come up with some healing salves and ointments that require some high skill checks to make and somewhat costly ingredients that experts create. They could "heal" some hit points, although it would likely be a small amount, and/or help increase natural healing. and I may borrow your Cure Wounds mods in that case, if you don't mind. Not at all, you're welcome to it.
Lord_Anthrax 03-07-05, 07:37 AM	You might consider taking a look at the Black Company Campaign Setting(by Green Ronin), it has some good options in it on using ordinary medical skills to aid in healing someone's wounds.
Vatras 03-09-05, 12:28 AM	Avoid any class ability or general formula for raising AC like the plague. You will get ridiculous high ACs compared to the attack ratings (nobody can hit himself). The best way to fudge with ACs if at all is introducing materials or armor types with higher ACs.
NineInchNall 03-09-05, 03:25 PM	Or you could just not compensate for the lack of magic items at all. This may sound crazy, but hear me out. The whole point of a low magic game is to make the magic stuff seem all the more special, right? Then by making characters more self-sufficient you're lessening the effect of having fewer magic items around. In a low magic world difficult enemies should be extremely difficult. Entire quests could be built around retrieving a weapon or item powerful enough to kill a single CR 7 creature (read: get past its DR). Now, this obviously entails changing the distribution of enemies that the PCs will face. For example, no throwing hordes of werecreatures at a group of level 5 characters -- unless you have some way for them to be rescued in the middle of it. In a low magic game the PCs will be mostly concerned with fighting other normal humanoids, while the occasional magical enemy takes on a frightening level of power. It's a totally different flavor. That's just my take on it, but, well, meh.
HailSpork 03-09-05, 10:23 PM	I find it very odd that characters improve their attack combat ability naturally, but don't learn how to defend themselves outside the special focus of a feat. That's what hit points are. Learning to defend yourself by taking hits better. Still, it did always bother me that the number of openings for attack you get is based completely on your skill and not on your opponent's skill... I guess that makes more sense against monsters.
Lina_Inverse 03-10-05, 07:46 AM	Or you could just not compensate for the lack of magic items at all. This may sound crazy, but hear me out. The whole point of a low magic game is to make the magic stuff seem all the more special, right? Then by making characters more self-sufficient you're lessening the effect of having fewer magic items around. In a low magic world difficult enemies should be extremely difficult. Entire quests could be built around retrieving a weapon or item powerful enough to kill a single CR 7 creature (read: get past its DR). Now, this obviously entails changing the distribution of enemies that the PCs will face. For example, no throwing hordes of werecreatures at a group of level 5 characters -- unless you have some way for them to be rescued in the middle of it. In a low magic game the PCs will be mostly concerned with fighting other normal humanoids, while the occasional magical enemy takes on a frightening level of power. It's a totally different flavor. That's just my take on it, but, well, meh. CR system.take out magic and dont include stuff to balence it.you guarente A.fighter types are worthless.as a fighter by lvl10 is just his gear. B.PCs will not meet the CR assumptions C.2 levels will not be +100% power(a CR assumption) D.casters,all the pcs will have to be casters.and not wizards either. you clearly dont understand the game rules.
Vanamir 03-10-05, 08:50 AM	For AC, I have character's gain a +1 "natural deflection bonus" for every two points of BAB. It's only been play-tested up to level 6 so far but it seems to work very well. I find it very odd that characters improve their attack combat ability naturally, but don't learn how to defend themselves outside the special focus of a feat. I used the same house rule and it worked quite well until level 6 or 7 and after that it became a complete mess. As soon as the fighter types get a substantial BAB and the casters can afford to prepare several buffing spells the AC still get through the roof. Even with absolutely no magic items it will break down around level 10 or 12 i guess.
scwolf 03-10-05, 01:40 PM	CR system. People played this game for two and a half decades before a formalized CR system was put in place. It may be a little more work to have to determine encounter design and XP awards by DM judgement vs. a simple numerical rating system, but it can be done.
Vanamir 03-10-05, 05:01 PM	People played this game for two and a half decades before a formalized CR system was put in place. It may be a little more work to have to determine encounter design and XP awards by DM judgement vs. a simple numerical rating system, but it can be done. Especially if you consider that CRs are only guidelines anyway. That's why the DMG (at least in 3.0E) explicitly told you to adjust XP rewards according to how encounters actually played out. IMX personal judgment of a monster's abilities is much more accurate than most given CRs.
NineInchNall 03-11-05, 06:28 PM	CR system.take out magic and dont include stuff to balence it.you guarente A.fighter types are worthless.as a fighter by lvl10 is just his gear. B.PCs will not meet the CR assumptions C.2 levels will not be +100% power(a CR assumption) D.casters,all the pcs will have to be casters.and not wizards either. you clearly dont understand the game rules. Excuse me? Seriously, did you start playing D&D with 3e? When you play in a game with low magic, your PCs have to take on weaker stuff. It's as simple as that. Does it mean that they should get less experience for it? Probably not, as experience should be based upon the actual challenge presented by an enemy, not some number called "CR" that is divorced from the specifics of a particular campaign. If you play low magic, then you are accepting the fact that your characters will not be as powerful as they otherwise would be, and so will have a harder time against many enemies. This is one of the reasons people play in low magic games. The challenge is there, and the wonder of picking up that +2 greatsword is restored. If you're playing in a low magic game, then that CR 18 for the Balor isn't likely going to be correct. I thought that that was obvious enough not to warrant mentioning explicitly. :rolleyes:
ClothedUpon 03-11-05, 07:25 PM	That's what hit points are. Learning to defend yourself by taking hits better. My apologies to all. I didn't see this thread before starting my Fixing Flintstone Fighters thread. I like your definition of hit points. The only problem is that it takes so long for them to heal without magical aid. If you're learning to "take the hits better" why couldn't you also recover faster from fights? One Hit point per character level isn't all that fast, especially in a low magic setting and/or a setting where the use of heavier armors was quite rare.
HailSpork 03-12-05, 06:44 AM	Thanks. Glad you liked it. Mostly, those are balance issues. Spells that deal damage do so based on the caster instead of the recipient, so healing spells are the same. (exceptions for elemental immunities, vulnerabilities, dr, etc.) The current healing system actually makes it so your expected healing time is (%damage taken)*(hit die/2+con mod). On the bright side, the actual amount of dice is irrelevent to the time, only what die you roll. Note that this is extraordinarily counter-intuitive. So, the more hit dice you have, the more hp you have. But when you get more hit dice, it doesn't slow down the amount of time it takes to fully heal.
cainblueriver76 03-14-05, 08:36 PM	If you look in Tome and Blood (I think) they have an alchemical mixture called a healing salve, it is the equivelent of a potion of cure light wounds. Just adjust the DC to make it, and use a Heal check, or profession Herbalist check to make it. It takes no check to apply, but allow someone with heal to make a check when applying it, and if successful it heals the D8 plus 1 or 2 due to the person "knowing how to properly apply" the healing salve.
Agent Johnson 03-15-05, 01:49 AM	I have been working on a campaign world that does not include any of the "primary" spellcasting classes, except for Warlocks. Now, this obviously raises the Warlock to a new level of power, and thus I have been looking for ways to modify the class in order to make sure that it is not grotesquely overpowered. Any suggestions in that department would certainly be appreciated. Also, I must say that I believe a low-magic world, such as one with no primary spellcasters, can actually add to the role playing experience. This is, of course, subject to your personal preferences in role playing, but I am fond of a world where how good you are at something, be it diplomatic relations, stealth or martial combat, cannot simply be replaced by a spell or two. When a rogue has Disable Device, Hide, Open Lock, Move Silently and Search all at scores above ten, it can be a real buzz kill when two or three spells serve as a complete and unfalliable countermeasure.
rbingham2000 03-15-05, 05:13 AM	I will point you to the Creatures section of the D20 Modern RPG (or the D20 Modern SRD, if you do not have the corebook). Right at the end of that section, it gives pointers on researching monsters and finding out their weaknesses. It then gives you the effects that various weaknesses have on the monsters that have them. The reason I'm doing this is to show how another D20 game, which is low-magic by nature, handles the classic problem of monsters being too tough for characters to take on without lots of hit points, magic, or both.