Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Reyemile 02-14-07, 05:28 PM	A few casting classes, such as the Spirit Shaman and the Favored Soul, have split stat spellcasting in a (misguided) attempt to keep them balanced with the core casting classes. But it is widely accepted that all full casters are just better than everyone else. So what about introducing split casting to all casters to try to tone down the power level? My thoughts: Intelligence governs wizards' spells known, as the learn new and powerful formula, and wisdom determines DC as they use their iron wills to force magic around and through their magical formulas. Wisdom determines the clerics' spell known, as it is how they grasp the divine gifts of their patrons. Charisma, their force of personality, determines the strength and DC of the miracles they bring to the world. Charisma determines a sorcerer's spells known--their confidence and personality allows them to reach the pinnacle of magical effects. As they draw from their inner reserves, however, their DCs are based on their constitutions. This also helps balance Sorcerors against Wisdom, since Constitution is a stat they would want to boost anyway. Thoughts?
Thiez 02-14-07, 06:23 PM	:( How about we leave the poor spellcasters alone and introduce something new for the non-spellcasting classes: SAD. Single Ability Dependency. They can use their primary ability score for any check using an ability modifier :P. Splitting these things up is not going to help a lot. People who know how to optimize will always come up with ways to get ridiculously high DCs. People who don't know how to optimize will be hurt. I mean, it's not like it's that hard to boost your saving throws, right? The power of spells lies mostly in 'the power of spells', not just the DCs. Does that make sense? I am referring to the effects spells have on the world.
Kadasbrass 02-14-07, 06:48 PM	While I believe something should be done to limit spellcasters, using two ability scores to do it isn't the right approach in my view. I rather place limits on how often they can use higher level spells in a single encounter. Maybe make higher level spells full-round actions. Control what spells a caster should have access too.
Sphyre 02-15-07, 03:14 AM	I played in a one shot 5th level game where the DM radically changed the way magic worked. All cha based casters were banned (yes, even the bard). All spell DCs were based off cha. It didn't change much, other than the fact that I went with 16 int and 16 cha instead of 18 int and 10 cha. Regardless, it didn't make me any weaker really. It just made me more MAD. That doesn't change the overall effect that spell casters are stronger, you just make them spread out a bit more... and makes those bookworm arrogant wizards all likeable guys... what? I'm thinking a complete revamp is more needed than a simple changing them to MAD, if you care about the balance issue of casters.
ShinoAburame 02-15-07, 02:03 PM	Here's some penalties I thoughtup: Divine Spell Failure Divine casters suffer spell failure with armor and shields just as arcane casters do, they may get thier spells from a differant source. But they still have to do somatic gestures don't they? Which is hinderd when wearing armor/shields! Diety Restricted Spells: Clerics must choose a diety (this penalty only applies them) and as such, diety's have a list of spells that are forbidden from being cast on the cleric spell list. Favored Terrain Spellcasting This only applies to druids, druids choose a specific terrain, spells casted outside that terrain have a 5% chance of spell-failure. Arcane Hardship Arcane casters suffer pollution to the body when they cast spells, they must either make a fortitude save or will save (GM's choice) equal to 11+the spell's level. If they fail the fortitude save they become fatigue for 1d4 rounds. If they fail the will save they become confused for one round. Bards/Spelltheives only need make a save of 8+the spell's level. Sorcerers don't have to make a saving throw as thier spells are treated as supernatural abilities. Mindyou I let all casters cast spontanously in my games.
Thiez 02-15-07, 04:10 PM	That's like, crazy. Why would you even pick a 'favored terrain' if it gave you nothing but penalties. Oh, I forgot. It's mandatory. I think it should be renamed to 'Get screwed anywhere but this terrain'. Arcane Hardship? Like, Confused A confused character’s actions are determined by rolling d% at the beginning of his turn: 01-10, attack caster with melee or ranged weapons (or close with caster if attacking is not possible); 11-20, act normally; 21-50, do nothing but babble incoherently; 51-70, flee away from caster at top possible speed; 71-100, attack nearest creature (for this purpose, a familiar counts as part of the subject’s self). A confused character who can’t carry out the indicated action does nothing but babble incoherently. Attackers are not at any special advantage when attacking a confused character. Any confused character who is attacked automatically attacks its attackers on its next turn, as long as it is still confused when its turn comes. A confused character does not make attacks of opportunity against any creature that it is not already devoted to attacking (either because of its most recent action or because it has just been attacked). There is a 20 percent chance of fleeing away from 'the caster'. That would be you. Try smiling after your character jumped off a cliff (surely, he would not be so stupid to follow him there, would he?) after casting Light.
Xeviat-DM 02-15-07, 04:19 PM	I've considered some spellcaster MAD, but I wouldn't differentiate it too much. Intelligence would determine the highest level spell any caster could cast. Wisdom would determine the bonus spell slots of any caster. Charisma would determine the save DCs of any spell cast. And I'd reduce the game to only one spellcaster, with different schools of focus (think of the Shugenja in OA). Intelligence measures your capacity to learn, and thus the most powerful spell you can cast is determined by intelligence. Wisdom is your mental health, and thus determines your endurance with magic. Charisma is your force of personality, and thus measures how much you can excert your magical force over reality.
bartleby42 02-16-07, 01:46 AM	I'm of the small minority that dosen't belive that casters need to be taken down a peg. But then again maybe I just use silence and anti-magic zones all to often. As far as making all spell casting classes split stat classes, sure if that is what you and your players want. As a player I wouldn't be too bugged by this and I could see how it would be a nice paper tiger to hold up and not feel so threatend whenever a PC says "I'm thinking about playing a wizard or a druid...."