Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Xeviat-DM 02-26-04, 01:50 AM	I find it interesting that a Wizard under this system is entirely better than a sorcerer. Sure, the sorcerer gets a little extra base PP, but since the wizard picks up their spells a level sooner, they end up getting more bonus spell points. Additionally, a wizard gets bonus spells known per day for having a high intelligence score. Personally, I feel the only fair fix is to limit a wizard to their base spells per day for their spells known. I really want to utilize this feature in my setting, but it doesn't look like it's fair compared to the current system.
Fiendish Banana Golem 02-26-04, 01:57 AM	Add to the mix that under normal spellcasting rules, a +2/4/6 Cloak/Headband of Charisma/Intellect increases both DCs and spells per day. Under Spell Points; For Wizards, spellcasting stat bonusing items no longer increase your effective spells per day (spell points), but still increase the amount of spells you can choose for each level, as well as spell DCs. For Sorcerers, since the "spells known per day" is their spells known, Cloaks of Charisma have only ONE effect on spellcasting; increasing spell DCs. And the additional spell points at each level that Sorcerers get are offset by the delayed aquisition of bonus spell points from high stats (due to delayed spell level aquisitions). Blech. I'm more and more convinced the designers for Spell Points either saw some hidden power for a Spell Point Sorcerer that I'm not seeing, they did wonky math, or they simply slipped and didn't realize that Sorcerers are losing half of their main advantage to Wizards, and losing the other half entirely.
Magus_Extreme 02-26-04, 09:13 AM	there's still the slight balance that wizards still need their spellbooks to pick n choose their spells, but yeah, that is a slight comfort compaired to the now-insane power of a wizard. A good fix is to revert the metamagic back to the old system, and have wizards prepaire metamagiced versions of the spells instead of being able to cast them on the fly.
Xeviat-DM 02-26-04, 04:58 PM	Um, characters gain bonus power points for having a high ability score.
DragonWatcher 02-26-04, 05:49 PM	Okay, I have an honest question here... the more posts that I read on these boards, the more I hear that for one reason or another (whether using core rules, or now magic points), the majority of people out there think that the sorcerer is a broken class. So my question... if the wizard is so superior, why the :censored: play a sorcerer? I mean, seriously, who cares, right? So you can cast a couple more spells per day... you get them at a higher level than a wizard does. Your spell list is limited, losing functionality, you don't get more skill points, hit points, a higher BAB or better saves. What's the draw??? I'm guessing that people think that the sorcerer has more character. That's why one of my players decided to play a sorcerer, anyhow, and no matter how much these things that everyone mentions may have irked him, he refused to convert the character to a wizard even when I gave him the option. Why, you might ask? One word... character. I guess that I'm just tired of hearing that the class is broken. No matter the magic system you use, this seems to be the consensus. My take is that you have three choices for your games... live with it, fix it, or stop using the sorcerer altogether.
Wil_Hyral 02-26-04, 09:54 PM	At sixth level, Sorcerers spend 5 magic points and get to cast a 6d6 fireball. Wizards spend 6 magic points for the same. That's all I got. :(
Xeviat-DM 02-27-04, 03:32 AM	Yeah, I just noticed that today too. I guess that's something.
Belegbeth 02-27-04, 10:05 AM	Originally posted by DragonWatcher So my question... if the wizard is so superior, why the :censored: play a sorcerer? I'm guessing that people think that the sorcerer has more character. Why would people think that sorcerers have "more character" than wizards? I have never liked the sorcerer class -- it makes no sense, as far as I can tell. Somehow this person innately "knows" spells that wizards have to learn through laborous study and research? It defies logic. It has always struck me as the kind of class that people who just want to fire a lot of magic missiles (or fireballs) every day would play. The studious wizard is a well established archtype from fantasy literature. And there many different kinds of wizards -- most of whom have character. Sorcerers just seem like one-dimensional spell casters, at least from my perspective.
Wil_Hyral 02-27-04, 03:56 PM	Has anyone here attempted to destroy a spellbook? Get it wet or set it on fire. Effectively, the next time he goes to sleep, he's level 0 unless he has Spell Mastery. The cleric suffers no such weakness. If you ask me, this system is more in favor of clerics than wizards. There's a blaring difference between striking an object on someone's hip and striking a deity for ~1200 damage. In one case, you incapacitate the wizard after the next time she sleeps. In the other, there's almost no way to do it until level ~50. This is the last thing I'll say in defense of WotC: you can't really frontload the sorcerer spell points too much, you know? I mean already at level 20, all things being equal, a sorcerer can cast 17 more level 1 spells per day than the wizard. I'll come up with something... What if you don't necessarily increase the cap for metamagic? Let's just say you're a level 6 sorcerer but boy howdy you sure do want to maximize a fireball and you happen to have the feat. Normally the maximization would render the spell level 6, which you're about halfway short, in your own levels. Why not just allow sorcerers to ignore that cap and expend the necessary 11 magic points? That way we're seeing a world in which sorcerers can "strain their souls" more to get a more dynamic impact on combat. An automatic 36 damage sans reflex in the middle of 6th-level combat is nothing to shun, and the sorcerer does have more points to pick up some slack that might occur thereafter. This is probably the first time I've seriously thought the sorcerer was worse off than the wizard. Typically, I just maintained the argument that spontaneity was about worth the lack of knowledge but at this point, spontaneity is out the window.
DragonWatcher 02-27-04, 06:54 PM	<rant> Okay, re: my previous response... don't get me wrong. I think that the sorcerer is weak too, but I'm just getting bored hearing everyone complain about it. I have my own fixes for this (at least two, in fact), which I use. WotC seems to be happy with their sorcerer, after all, they had a perfectly viable chance to revise it (like they did the ranger and bard) in 3.5, but they chose not to. However, if you disagree, change it for your game. Give them a d6 hit die, add some spell points, reduce meta-magic costs... whatever you think will work. It's your game, have fun with it. ;) Besides that, I don't think that WotC will send their D&D Blackguard Gashtappo to your house, if you don't play by their rules. After all, their not Micr:censored:soft. </rant>