Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hrafnaugr the Wordplainer 01-01-05, 05:06 PM	What magic system do you use? A simple question, but one that has far reaching implications for the game, mechanically and tone wise. A spell-point system eliminates the traditional wizard's question of "what to memorize today?" The standard system puts more emphasis on forethought and planning. I'd just like to hear what other people use, and why. Personally, for my next campaign, I'm using a system based on that of Mage: the Ascension. I primarily decided to go with it because I like the idea of mages being able to reshape reality with just their wills, and being able to make spells on the fly. I also chose it as a way to unite the arcane spellcasting classes (well, primary casters, anyway). There is now only one arcane spellcasting class, called Scrceror, Wizard, Mage, whatever. And having said so, any body else want to speak up?
doopokko 01-02-05, 04:30 AM	In my homebrew setting, magic is divided into four types: arcane, divine, psionic, and wild. I'm not going to discuss psionics here, begause they work exactly as described in the XPHB Although in general magic works exactly as it is described in the core rulebooks, the different types have specific rule implications that are always present. Arcane Magic: All casters of arcane magic have Intelligence as their casting ability score. Arcane magic is always prepared ahead of time, almost always from a spellbook. Casters can only prepare spells that they have previously learned. Spell Mastery is one to get around this restriction. Basically arcane spellcasters follow exactly the same rules as wizards. Arcane casters can never cast spells spontaneously; feats that grant such an ability are banned. Also banned is Eschew Materials. Arcane magic comes through laborious study and manipulation of magical formulas; these cannot be altered in simple ways such as leaving out components. Divine Magic Divine casters are based on the cleric. They have access to all the spells on their class list, but still must prepare their spells each day. Their spells are always based on Wisdom. Some class features and special feats allow spontaneous casting of certain spells, such as cures, inflicts, and summon nature's ally. Wild Magic: Wild magic works almost exactly like sorcerer magic. Casters learn a very limited number of spells, which they can then cast spontaneously. Spellcasting is always based on Charisma. In addition, wild casters never need to provide material components; they effectively have the Eschew Materials feat, but only for wild spells. Bards also cast wild spells. Certain classes, such as the Druid and Ranger get to choose whether to cast divine or wild spells. This reflects whether their power comes from their devotion to a god, or from their innate affinity toward nature. Also, if a character multiclasses to take multiple classes that grant the same type of magic, such as sorcerer and bard, she can combine her abilities from the two classes. All spell slots are added together, however bonus spells from a high ability score are only added in once. Thus a Sorcerer 1/Bard 1 with 12 Cha can cast 7 cantrips and 4 1st-level spells per day. Her caster level for all wild spells is 2; and she knows 4 bard cantrips and 4 sorcerer cantrips, any of which can be cast in any of her 7 cantrip spell slots. She also knows 2 1st-level spells as a sorcerer, and can cast these in her 4 1st-level slots as usual.
Kyy'Dakh 01-03-05, 03:22 PM	Think I'll take a crack at this: My campaign setting uses magic fairly close to the standard rules. Flavor-wise, spellcasting requires a level of spiritual strength that can be devoted to spellcasting: Wizards: Prepare spells using their intellect to store complex patterns. When triggered, these patterns form a chain reaction that creates the spell. The wizard's soul pushes over the first domino to start the spell casting. Counterspells work by disrupting individual steps in the reaction. They're the most "artificial" spellcasters around. As they gain experience, their minds become more adept at holding these patterns, and their souls become stronger and better able to push over bigger dominoes. Psionics: Essentially "natural" in manifesting their powers. Their powers can't be counterspelled because they're an act of will with few or no mechanics to attack. As a psion gains experience, his soul, and consequently, his will gets stronger. Sorcerers: Like psionics, but they've taken on many of the mechanics and symbologies wizards use. As a result, they can cast spells identical to those of a wizard, except they have their magical patterns (relatively) hardwired into their souls. As a sorc gains experience, his soul becomes more receptive to more intricate patterns, as well as stronger to push over heavier dominoes. Clerics and Druids: They gain their magic from their deity, philosophy or nature, in the form of spell patterns similar in many ways to a wizard's. As they gain experience, their souls are better able to gather and channel these outside sources of magic. Spontaneous Divine Spellcasters: Much like the sorcerer, but their deity/philosophy/whatever does the wiring. Creatures with spell-like abilities: Similar to psions, except they use some counterspell-resistant mechanisms to emulate arcane and divine spells.
JohnSnow 01-03-05, 04:05 PM	Good topic! Personally, I've always disliked standard D&D magic. Amazingly, the magic system is the thing I like least about D&D. Specifically, I hate the arcane/divine distinction and find it grotesquely "artificial." I've also noticed that most settings mess with magic in some way. I'm crafting a homebrew with a magic system that eliminates the arcane/divine distinction while slightly restricting the abilities of spellcasters. It's a fairly substantial alteration to "generic" D&D, but seems relatively well-balanced. The system comes from Fantasy Flight Games' Midnight campaign setting. Basically, it works as follows: 1. Eliminate all core spellcasting classes. 2. Make magic feat-based. All casters must take the Magecraft feat in order to be able to cast spells of the Universal school. All other schools cost a feat. Midnight further separates two schools (Conjuration and Evocation) into lesser and greater varieties for flavor reasons. 3. New "Channeler" spellcasting class available in three flavors: Spiritual (Wis-based), Hermetic (Int-based) and Charismatic (duh). Channelers get better hit dice and BAB, more skills and skill points, and a granted ability to augment their diminished spellcasting ability (exact ability depends on which 'flavor' of channeler you are). 4. Casting spells takes spell energy equal to the level of the spell (1st level = 1 spell energy, 4th = 4 spell energy, and so forth). Casters have spell energy equal to their attribute bonus. Additionally, Channelers have extra spell energy equal to their levels in the Channeler class. 5. Spellcasters may cast spells of level equal to their level/2 rounded down. Characters with more levels in Channeler than other classes add 1 to their level before dividing. So a 3rd level Channeler can cast 2nd level spells: (3+1)/ 2 = 2. 6. Caster level = Character level. 7. Characters who exhaust their spell energy can continue to cast spells by taking spell damage = spell energy. Spell damage is temporary Con damage which can only be healed by 8 hours of sleep. 8. Items exist which can reduce the spell energy cost of certain spells or schools of spells. 9. Rituals exist which reduce the spell damage of a given spell by prolonging the casting time (0-2nd level spells do no damage, for example). Multiple casters can further reduce the damage done. Spell energy can NOT be used in conjunction with rituals. 10. All characters have access to all the spells on the spell lists of schools they know, excepting a few spells which are outright eliminated for flavor reasons. (Midnight eliminates all cleric/paladin exclusive spells, but I'm not going that far). 11. Characters pay XP and gp to learn spells. Channelers learn a certain number of spells "for free" as they go up in level, and "pay" less to learn spells than characters of other classes. That's it. It forces a rare-magic feel on the game. Which I like and my fellow gamers are intrigued by.
Shinryouga 01-05-05, 04:40 PM	My group's magic system is a spell point system. We consider this a medium difficulty system, as it requires a capable DM to make it balanced (Specifically by enforcing Steps 5, 6, and 7). It was made to represent our view of magic's inner workings. To adopt this system, do the following: Step 1: Total the spells per level you can cast, with bonus spells. Do NOT take into account: Domain Spells, 0 level spells, or spell like abilities. Do NOT pool together spells from different classes, even if they are of the same divine/arcane type. Take this total number of spells. This number is your spell points. All classes cast spontaneously. Step 2: Spell DCs are set by the highest level spell you can cast, for all spells granted by that class. This does invalidate Heighten Spell, but makes it more reasonable in the sense that commoner's stop occasionally resisting 20th level charm persons. Step 3: Metamagic occurs spontaneously. However, all PREVIOUSLY spontaneous casters (Sorceror, Bard) metamagic spells without affecting the casting time. Non-spontaneous casters (Wizard, Druid, Cleric, Paladin, Ranger) take full round actions to metamagic. This revalues the "spontaneous" casters after all casters become spontaneous. Step 4: Sorcerors gain a bonus feat tree as a wizard, but only have metamagic on it. Wizards loose metamagic from their own, but gain school focus and spell penetration. Step 5: Wizards must spend the regular time going through their spellbook. This is not preparing spells, it is refreshing magical formula to prevent mishap. A wizard without a spellbook or Spell Mastery who casts a spell must make a DC 15+spell level INT check. Failure results in a mishap as a scroll. Step 6: Actively enforce material components. This causes most characters to take Eschew Materials, and prevents abuses of the more powerful spells with high cost components. Step 7: Review new spells before allowing them into the campaign. A few rare spells are broken in the context of this system. Often, adding an expensive material component is the best way to balance them rather than disallowing them. Just my two coppers worth. Shinryouga
moth 01-13-05, 11:48 PM	While not actively using it, I'm toying with using this system. Getting rid of divine and arcane spell casters and using classes that emulate both showing that magic comes from the same place. Making the spellcaster classes available at 1st level only further showing that magic is something you are born with and learn while introducing a new spell called Imbue Gift (this spell in effect increases the connection that everyoine has to magic so that one can cast spells It will also be a high level spell and probably costing XP and of course convincing the spell caster that one is worthy) that will allow one to become a spell caster after level 1. The myriad of spellcaster classes are divided into three groups based on their connection to their gift. The lower powered group being able to cast up to level three spells and often the recepiant of the Imbue Gift spell (similar to Wizards in the core). Next level can cast up to level 6 spells, these casters are natural caster but do not have a complete connection. Then there are the those who are basical pure magic and can cast up to 9th level and beyond spells. These different spellcaster classes can not multiclass with each other. I'm using the spell point system and the vitalizing variants for con and overcasting for a particulair class. I also plan to take the spells out of their schools and put them into one of 5 elements, earth, air, fire, water and spirit. Using metaphysical books and ancient correlations between elements and their attributed powers to classify these spells. I plan to use metamagic components instead of feats. All of this in an effort to make magic more natural and seem as if it comes from within as well as without. Psionics I'm including but leaving as it it mostly as it seems to be more of a incredibly strong will that causes the powers to manifest. They will be seperate not able to counter the other.
iam_bkee 01-14-05, 12:03 AM	We recently started using the recharge magic system. It has an interresting effect on the game. I have a few reservations, but I'm going to let it ride for a while.
Romulus LoneWolf 01-23-05, 10:26 AM	I have to echo moth's complaints about the artificial split of Arcane and Divine magic. At the very least in terms of seperating spells so as to keep wizards from casting heal. I'd be tempted towards fine-tuning a system based on GURPS' own System of Magic, perhaps by tinkering with the Sorceror and Favored Soul Classes and by adding spell points for them both. This way, I could also add GURPS-based elements like Mana Levels (Or Sanctity Levels for divine magic)... ...I might nonetheless keep the more traditional "preperation-based" spellcasters, with spellpoints as well, though. The difference mainly being that the preperation spellcasters (or "Ritual" casters, as I plan on interpreting spell prep as ritual casting) have a wider range of spells, but take extra time getting them ready...
Grigori 01-23-05, 11:48 AM	I usually use a spell point system, but I keep memorization. It represents the spells you actively 'know'. There is still the possibility of casting an unmemorized spell but it costs twice the number of spell points. A simpler way to do an alternate magic system, for those of you who don't want spell points, is to keep the spell slot system with this modification: Memorization: No change. You still can only memorize a certain number of spells. The difference is, that the memorized spells are not 'locked in' to your spells slots. If you have 3 third level spell slots, you can cast any of your memorized third level spells once, twice or three times. Or any combination thereof. Spell slot substitution: You can use a higher level spell slot to cast a lower level spell. i.e. you can use a 4th level spell slot to cast a 1st through 3rd level spell. The 'extra energy' is lost, unless you happen to have an open spell slot avialable. i.e. a wizard with this variant is out of 1st level spell slots, he uses up a 2nd level spell slot to cast magic missiles. The remaining energy left over from the 2nd level spell slot is retained. Basically re-charging a 1st level spell slot. Improved spell slot substitution: You can add lower level spell slots together to cast a higher level spell (you can not exceed your normal spell level). i.e. a 15th level wizard has used up all his 8th level spell slots and needs to cast an 8th level spell. He could spend two 4th level spell slots, a 5th and 3rd level spell slot, or any combination up to 8 to cast the spell. (You can impliment this as a special ability after 10th level or as a feat. Either way works). Metamagic: No prior preperation necessary. Simply use a higher level spell slot determined by however much the origonal spell was modified. i.e. an empowered fireball would use a 5th level spell slot. Fundamentally it works the same way the spell point system but takes the majority of the math involved out of it. It's much simpler and quicker.
True Cavalier 01-23-05, 06:57 PM	I keep all magic in one place: Magic. Arcane and Divine are different approaches to the same thing. In more detail, magic comes from spirits that have been spread on the world infusing people and objects with a universal magic (no different sources, like the shadow weave) Some creatures are inherently magical, for example, elves; they were created that way before the arrival of the spirits and work normally rules-wise. They don't need to contact the spirits or anything similar. Now, there are three main kinds of spirits (with others possible): Divine (clerics), Fell(wizards), and Feral(druids). Wizards approach magic by carefully studying its forms and manifestations and learning to use it; they were tought originally by the elves. Sorcerers have not studied magic intensely but they had an ancestor in their family that was also a sorcerer or a spirit-touched race (Aasimar, Tiefling, and Feralkin, for the three bloodlines of spirits) Sorcerers not born are "made" through making a contact with a spirit and joining like a symbiosis; spirits cannot affect the mortal world so they pursue this often, in exchange, they offer their chosen one longevity and magical powers. Or they destroy him. There are three kinds of sorcerers; those that draw their spells from the wizard's list, those that draw their spells from a slightly modified cleric's list, and those that draw their spells from a slightly modified druid's list. Clerics approach magic by worshipping it. Deities are distant from the world, instead granting their worshippers powers through their spirit servants. Druids work on a similar fashion but instead trying to embracing magic and be one with it rather than viewing the spirits as higher creatures to be feared or simply worshipped. Bards are more like wizards in that they dabble in magic with or without having spirit blood; I am thinking about making a variant bard that works with known spells and preparation, like wizards. This is basically a D&D adaption of Lionheart's magic system (spirits).
Xandore 01-24-05, 01:11 PM	For my next campaign I'll be using the spell point system from Unearthed Arcana. Will be using the first option under metamagic and spell points. Clerics, druids, wizards, and the like can change one spell per spell level each day when they prepare their spells for the day. Favored souls, sorcerers, and the like can change one spell per spell level when gaining a new level of that class. Sorcerers at 1st level gain a bloodline and a bloodline feat every 5 levels at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th. I have a couple of dozen bloodline feats that have up to 4 levels of potency. The potency of your bloodline depends on the number of bloodline feats taken and the number of bloodline levels. Bloodlines are described in the Unearthed Arcana. Bard is a prestige class described in the Unearthed Arcana and may either advance as a divine or arcane caster based on the spell casting class already taken. One spell casting class must be chosen and not changed when bard is initially taken. Paladin presitige class is used with the paladin varants freedom, honor, slaughter, and tyrany. Ranger prestige class is used. Witch class of my own design a cross between favored soul and warlock with spell being mostly of druid type. PSI caster class my own version of psion using predominately spells from the PHB. Psionic powers are divided into 7 disciplines which are then further separated into sciences (arcane domains) and devotions (single spells). One discipline is the universal one which is made up of psionic attack science and the other psionic defense science.
moth 01-24-05, 02:13 PM	PSI caster class my own version of psion using predominately spells from the PHB. Psionic powers are divided into 7 disciplines which are then further separated into sciences (arcane domains) and devotions (single spells). One discipline is the universal one which is made up of psionic attack science and the other psionic defense science. Man that sounds like a mix of 2ed and 3rd edition psionics.
Xandore 01-24-05, 02:42 PM	Man that sounds like a mix of 2ed and 3rd edition psionics. Basically I drew heavily from 2nd ED and never had the 3e or 3.5e psionics handbook. I did read some articles about psionics in 3e and 3.5e.
Neoatomic 01-24-05, 09:57 PM	In My group we use a system based on Spell Points, I have the system posted you can just check my sig. In my newest setting Im going Low Magic, only two Types of Magic Exist, 1.Divine (Based soley on Domains), And 2. Gate Magic (Planar travel, its a little more complex and hard to explain, I got the idea from Watching Gatekeepers 21 on G4TechTV). Basically all casters are holy (Gate Magic is Rare and Planar travel is usually through touchstones) and they all gain domain powers and spells at the rate a Cleric would normally be able to cast a spell of the same level. Learning Them requires a WIS check (DC 10 + Spell level) to learn, As for the amount of times you can cast spells, you use your WIS Modiifier as your spells per day.
MikeTheAmazingMuskrat 01-25-05, 07:34 PM	I have been using a reduced magic variant with ranger, paladin and adept-with-a-domain as the only spell casting classes for a low hit point setting that i've been working on here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=360218). That has worked out so far. I have two other concepts in mind but haven't developed them fully. I'll slap down a summary, though. number one: An arcane caster requires a tome for his spells. Each day, he studies the tome and chooses which spells he want for that day. The number of spells that can be known (Understood) for any given day is some function of level and intelligence. Hey, magic is complicated. One might remember generally how a spell works, but the details can be elusive. The book is like a study guide, but there is only so much information that one can cram in to one's head before things start slipping loose. Casters have castings per day. Castings can be spent however the spellcaster sees fit. You have five castings a day and want to blow them all on Light? Go for it. Meteor Swarm? Knock yourself out. More powerful spells might have more taxing costs than lesser spells, though. That Meteor Swarm might cost you Con. A lot would have to be rewritten, and I'd like to add a bunch of new spells to the mix. I'm not sure if I'd get rid of the concept of spell levels all together or not. Regardless, a spell would have a prerequisite Spellcraft bonus (bonus, not ranks) necessary for it to be Understood. It needs work, but I think it would be interesting. number two: This idea was for a high arcana campaign. There would be no distinction between divine or arcane magic. Every caster would be spontaneous. The system would use a spell pool, but rather than a pool that refilled every day, it would be replenished every year at a specific date. We'll call that date one's naming date. The date and time of one's rejuvenation would be a closely guarded secret. If your enemies knew, they might be able to prevent you from regenerating your magical powers... Special days, places and junctions would also be able to regenerate the spell pool, but only in part; solar eclipses, lunar alignments, ancient springs, that sort of stuff. Level would determine how many points could be spent on any one casting and how large a caster's spell pool could be. Those aspects would also be heavily influenced by feats or class abilities. There would be a single spellcaster base class, and then a number of alternate secondary classes that could be taken at later points, depending upon what style of magic a player wanted to develop for their character. ...THAT one needs a lot of work... -mike the amazing muskrat