Post/Author/DateTime	Post
skywyze 08-28-07, 12:42 PM	In all the D&D games I've played, one thing has always stayed the same: For certain fights, some character types have no options other than to assist others and sit back and wait. For instance, a rogue fighting a construct finds that sneak attacks don't work and that his extra attacks from dual wielding simply make him weaker, because of a construct's DR (as opposed to wielding a 2-hander). So he can't do much and ends up bored. Likewise, a bard fighting an army of undead soon finds that all his singing and all his enchantment spells are wasted and without serious multiclassing, there's little for him to do. In an attempt to ameliorate this problem, I've come up with some extremely simple house rules, but I'd like some feedback on them before I put them into play. Maybe I missed something? 1. Only creatures with no physical body (incorporeal/ethereal) are inherently immune to critical hits and sneak attacks. The exception here being creatures under the effect of Heavy Fortification armor and spells designed to specifically protect against these things. For instance, you could sneak attack a lich, but not a ghost. 2. Only creatures with no mind (no int score listed, or with an int of 0) are inherently immune to mind-affecting effects. So you could charm a lich, but not a zombie. Again, the exception being those who're under the effect of the mind blank spell or similar effects. 3. The only creatures who're inherently immune to flanking effects are those with class abilities like Improved Uncanny Dodge, items like the Robe of Eyes or spells which negate such penalties. Any insights, opinions, etc would be appreciated!
Krusk 08-28-07, 12:50 PM	I would give something to the groups that you took the immunities away from. Possibly a 75% fortification instead of full out immunity. Full immunity is something that they use a lot as an advantage. They have the advantage in order to balance out some other disadvantages. No con score, ect.
skywyze 08-28-07, 01:35 PM	Wouldn't it be easier to just give them max hps for their level instead, if you needed to compensate for the lack of immunities?
Tequila_Sunrise 08-28-07, 03:37 PM	I wouldn't make liches, for example, completely open to sneak attacks and mind effects. There are reasons, both mechanical and flavorful, for why certain creatures are immune to certain things. Perhaps "immunity" = 1/2 damage or +4 saves?
nonsi 08-28-07, 03:39 PM	In all the D&D games I've played, one thing has always stayed the same: For certain fights, some character types have no options other than to assist others and sit back and wait. For instance, a rogue fighting a construct finds that sneak attacks don't work and that his extra attacks from dual wielding simply make him weaker, because of a construct's DR (as opposed to wielding a 2-hander). So he can't do much and ends up bored. Likewise, a bard fighting an army of undead soon finds that all his singing and all his enchantment spells are wasted and without serious multiclassing, there's little for him to do. In an attempt to ameliorate this problem, I've come up with some extremely simple house rules, but I'd like some feedback on them before I put them into play. Maybe I missed something? 1. Only creatures with no physical body (incorporeal/ethereal) are inherently immune to critical hits and sneak attacks. The exception here being creatures under the effect of Heavy Fortification armor and spells designed to specifically protect against these things. For instance, you could sneak attack a lich, but not a ghost. 2. Only creatures with no mind (no int score listed, or with an int of 0) are inherently immune to mind-affecting effects. So you could charm a lich, but not a zombie. Again, the exception being those who're under the effect of the mind blank spell or similar effects. 3. The only creatures who're inherently immune to flanking effects are those with class abilities like Improved Uncanny Dodge, items like the Robe of Eyes or spells which negate such penalties. Any insights, opinions, etc would be appreciated! REALLY cool :thumbsup: What do you think about this refinement to rule #1 ? 1. Only creatures with no physical body (incorporeal) are inherently immune to critical hits and sneak attacks (you could sneak attack a lich, but not a ghost). Metal constructs count as having heave fortification. Constructs made of various minerals and ethereal creatures count as having medium fortification. Other constructs and corporeal undead count as having light fortification. The exception here would be creatures under the effect of Heavy Fortification and spells designed to specifically protect against these things. Multi source fortifications stack, but never get beyond heavy fortification.
skywyze 08-28-07, 04:48 PM	This is really helpful feedback, thanks! I'd give you each the feedback you deserve, but I wrote it up and it became a massive block of text. So let me just give a summary: I really liked the idea of giving such creatures a flat 50% reduction in damage received from all physical attacks. It's simple, quick and allows rogues to do what they were built to do. So I might definitely do that. What I'd be most interested in now is alternatives to the whole mind-immunity thing. Something where bards would be able to participate in the fight, but where the formerly mind-immune creature would retain some sort of power or resistance as a replacement. Maybe have all mind-affecting spells cease to affect them after one round instead? The bard could keep the lich out of the fight for several rounds before running out of spells, making him definitely a useful asset, but the lich would still retain its flavor and some of its power. Any suggestions?