Massive Damage and Class Based Defense [Archive] - Wizards Community

Massive Damage and Class Based Defense [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ornitholestes
02-01-07, 06:04 PM I recently purchased Unearthed Arcana and am considering some house rules in my next campaign. I had some ideas on how to adjust a few of them and wanted to hear any opinions and possible balance issues.

Massive Damage As a fan of D20 modern I enjoy more severe massive damage rules. However, I also realize that damage in D&D is too high for massive damage threshold = constitution score to be an effective rule in my games. Here is my suggested fix

Massive damage threshold equals constitution score plus a level based bonus that depends upon hit dice. Characters with D4 hit dice add 1/2 their level (as a wizard's BAB), characters with D6 or D8 add 3/4 their level (as a cleric's BAB), and characters with D10 or D12 add their level (as a fighter's BAB). Multiclass characters would add their bonuses as they do with saves and BABs.

Example: Bob the level 5 fighter has 14 con, his massive damage threshold would be 19. George the level 2 wizard has 11 con, his threshold would be 12.

Defense I am also considering using a variation class based defense and armor as damage reduction. Here is how it would work: A character's base defense bonus is equal to his Dexterity score (not dex modifier modifier) with a bonus equal to half his level (regardless of class!). Armor provides no AC bonus, instead it gives damage reduction equal to its normal armor bonus (thus full plate gives DR 8/-). Shield, enhancement, and other bonuses to armor class function normally.

A character's dexterity bonus to armor is limited by the armor's max dex bonus as shown below.

Max dex +1: Character can add at most 12 to his AC from armor
Max dex +2: Character can add at most 14 to his AC from armor.
Max dex +3: Character can add at most 16 to his AC from armor.
The pattern continues.

I am not considering these house rules for every campaign but I am curious as to your opinions on how well they would work.
Wayside
02-01-07, 07:42 PM Overall, these ideas look very problematic. For example, a 20th level wizard with a 14 con would have, assuming average rolls, approximately 90 hp. And would have to save vs death (a very problematic situation for a mage) upon taking only 24dmg. Likewise a fighter of 20th level with a 14 con would have, assuming average rolls, approximately 150 hp, and would have to make a save whenever he took more than 34 dmg, a very frequent occurance for someone on the front line.
If you want a scaling death from massive damage try half max hp or a similar function.

As far as class defense bonus and DR as armor class, characters having DR 8 (or any DR at low level for that matter) will rapidly become problematic.

And last, but certainly not least the dex score as dodge bonus with 1/2 level added is the most broken, not only does it put more emphasis onto the already overly important dex stat, but it makes an extremely drastic boost to armor class, far too much to be considered as allowable. I mean, at first level an elf with a 20 dex would have a 30 AC... horrible, horrible, horrible idea. Try using half BaB as a dodge bonus to AC if you really don't want to use the book's variant.
ornitholestes
02-01-07, 10:05 PM Woops, I wasn't clear dex replaces the starting ten for AC. So the elf with 20 dex would have 20 AC at level 1.

I guess I just like more deadly combat (and lower level play - my campaigns have never gotten beyond 10th level. . . ) than most. I like D20 moderns mass damage threshold ( and never had problems with it being too deadly), and I was trying to use it, but give it some sort of increase in D&D so the players are forced to think before fighting. And I was planning to use it in a low level game, but I can see how D&D simply doesn't support that kind of play.
Jerks
02-02-07, 12:08 AM Massive damage works slightly better in Modern games because a lot of the injury you take is from guns, and they do the same amount of damage from 1st level to 20th.

D&D damage scales quite a bit larger than D20 Modern, so you can afford to be more generous in your massive damage rules. Maybe instead of being dropped to -1 hit point on a failed save, you could use the "clobbered" rules from the DMG?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ornitholestes 02-01-07, 06:04 PM	I recently purchased Unearthed Arcana and am considering some house rules in my next campaign. I had some ideas on how to adjust a few of them and wanted to hear any opinions and possible balance issues. Massive Damage As a fan of D20 modern I enjoy more severe massive damage rules. However, I also realize that damage in D&D is too high for massive damage threshold = constitution score to be an effective rule in my games. Here is my suggested fix Massive damage threshold equals constitution score plus a level based bonus that depends upon hit dice. Characters with D4 hit dice add 1/2 their level (as a wizard's BAB), characters with D6 or D8 add 3/4 their level (as a cleric's BAB), and characters with D10 or D12 add their level (as a fighter's BAB). Multiclass characters would add their bonuses as they do with saves and BABs. Example: Bob the level 5 fighter has 14 con, his massive damage threshold would be 19. George the level 2 wizard has 11 con, his threshold would be 12. Defense I am also considering using a variation class based defense and armor as damage reduction. Here is how it would work: A character's base defense bonus is equal to his Dexterity score (not dex modifier modifier) with a bonus equal to half his level (regardless of class!). Armor provides no AC bonus, instead it gives damage reduction equal to its normal armor bonus (thus full plate gives DR 8/-). Shield, enhancement, and other bonuses to armor class function normally. A character's dexterity bonus to armor is limited by the armor's max dex bonus as shown below. Max dex +1: Character can add at most 12 to his AC from armor Max dex +2: Character can add at most 14 to his AC from armor. Max dex +3: Character can add at most 16 to his AC from armor. The pattern continues. I am not considering these house rules for every campaign but I am curious as to your opinions on how well they would work.
Wayside 02-01-07, 07:42 PM	Overall, these ideas look very problematic. For example, a 20th level wizard with a 14 con would have, assuming average rolls, approximately 90 hp. And would have to save vs death (a very problematic situation for a mage) upon taking only 24dmg. Likewise a fighter of 20th level with a 14 con would have, assuming average rolls, approximately 150 hp, and would have to make a save whenever he took more than 34 dmg, a very frequent occurance for someone on the front line. If you want a scaling death from massive damage try half max hp or a similar function. As far as class defense bonus and DR as armor class, characters having DR 8 (or any DR at low level for that matter) will rapidly become problematic. And last, but certainly not least the dex score as dodge bonus with 1/2 level added is the most broken, not only does it put more emphasis onto the already overly important dex stat, but it makes an extremely drastic boost to armor class, far too much to be considered as allowable. I mean, at first level an elf with a 20 dex would have a 30 AC... horrible, horrible, horrible idea. Try using half BaB as a dodge bonus to AC if you really don't want to use the book's variant.
ornitholestes 02-01-07, 10:05 PM	Woops, I wasn't clear dex replaces the starting ten for AC. So the elf with 20 dex would have 20 AC at level 1. I guess I just like more deadly combat (and lower level play - my campaigns have never gotten beyond 10th level. . . ) than most. I like D20 moderns mass damage threshold ( and never had problems with it being too deadly), and I was trying to use it, but give it some sort of increase in D&D so the players are forced to think before fighting. And I was planning to use it in a low level game, but I can see how D&D simply doesn't support that kind of play.
Jerks 02-02-07, 12:08 AM	Massive damage works slightly better in Modern games because a lot of the injury you take is from guns, and they do the same amount of damage from 1st level to 20th. D&D damage scales quite a bit larger than D20 Modern, so you can afford to be more generous in your massive damage rules. Maybe instead of being dropped to -1 hit point on a failed save, you could use the "clobbered" rules from the DMG?