Mental Disorders [Archive] - Wizards Community

Mental Disorders [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
lordyuri24
03-12-04, 11:44 PM I have always liked playing "unstable" characters. Phobias, narcissism, depression; I usally included some mental whackout in each of my characters, makes for a good game. When I first saw that there were new rules for playing mentally unbalanced characers I nearly wet my pants, until I read it. I mean, I am fully able to RP these conditions, but the rules behind them seem like a major hinderance without much cause. -4 to Attack Roles, Saves, and Checks for depression? With no reason to take it? Does anyone see the problem with this logic. I am all for fashioning characters around the RP, but to criple them from not having a jar of antidepressants seems kind of extreme. Does anyone use the rules for mental disorders?
trapspringer
03-13-04, 06:59 PM I think the conditions are to be used when a player actually goes insane. There are rules for losing sanity in UA and I don't think they were designed purely for RP. They are like the mental equivelant of death.
Lankin the Mad Mage
03-14-04, 07:40 AM I'm a bit confused as to what you try to say.

Are you saying that insanity should give benefits, and that you're disappointed that it only lists negative results?

Insanity is here handled as a kind of mental HP, the more you lose, the worse your mental health is.

You don't have to use the worst forms of unbalance in the book. But insanity is here defined as something tha is radically disturbing, not only personality quirks.
lordyuri24
03-14-04, 08:49 AM Originally posted by Lankin the Mad Mage
I'm a bit confused as to what you try to say.

Are you saying that insanity should give benefits, and that you're disappointed that it only lists negative results?

Insanity is here handled as a kind of mental HP, the more you lose, the worse your mental health is.

You don't have to use the worst forms of unbalance in the book. But insanity is here defined as something tha is radically disturbing, not only personality quirks.
I was just inquiring as to the severity of some of the effects, being either too much or ot enough. My favourite example is depression, something I have combated for a good while, and I will be the first to say it's effects do wane and wax. The idea of a solid value to something as amorphous as depression just seems kind of limiting to me, as different people experience it in different ways.
Salla
03-14-04, 09:19 AM Well, two points I think I can make here ...

1. This is only a quick gamer's guide to instabilities and insanities; creating detail for every disorder would require a book of its own.

2. It's insanity. It's not SUPPOSED to have an upside.
Veton
03-14-04, 06:50 PM You could try talking to your DM to reduce the penalties for the various mental effects.

Originally posted by Salla
2. It's insanity. It's not SUPPOSED to have an upside.

What he is saying is that they're rather harsh with respect to the penalties they give.
Kastas
03-14-04, 07:58 PM -4 sounds about right to me. You have to understand that they're differentiating between simply sulking and brooding all the time and actual clinical depression. Clinical depression is frequently characterized by lethargy and a lack of motivation or interest. Someone with severe depression would have difficulty finding the motivation to get out of bed in the morning, much less to chase monsters around dungeons and hack them up.

Of course, this is a game, and something like that would not be very fun to roleplay. For that reason, they boil the effect down to a simple game mechanic (-4 penalty on most rolls).
Ulden Throatbane
03-14-04, 11:17 PM If you want the "waxing and waning" aspect of depression, just make an alteration to the rule where you make a saving throw to see if you suffer the effects of depression that day.
jagggar
03-15-04, 11:23 AM Originally posted by Salla
2. It's insanity. It's not SUPPOSED to have an upside.

That's an obviously biased opinion from someone suffering from sanity.

When actually looking at the book's suggestions, I see a few things which I recognize as wrong in general, not just in a fanciful game setting for "insanity."

DID/MPD (p. 206) - IIRC, when different personalities have been given tests, they've come back with different results, therefore different mental scores would be in order. One personality could be a 6 year old and another one 27 with a college education, you're going to tell me they're equally as smart?
For a great degree of seperation at a young age in a fantasy setting, I wouldn't say that the personalities had to share the same class. If one has a goal of being the world's greatest wizard and another of being the world's greatest swordsman, either someone's gunna find out about the other, or they've got strange ways of going about their goals.
They should have included rules for when the personalities switch. Otherwise, "Hmmm. . . well his other personality knows that little bit of information we need. . . Bob the fighter takes over."

Psychosexual (p. 208) - I'm not sure of the offical APA ruling, but I've met at least one person who according to UA is "insane". He (using what he considers himself) had gender reassignment surgery and takes hormones. The National Conference for Community and Justice (NCCJ) put information on transexuals in the same packet as homosexuals (packet on heterosexism: a system of advantage that favors homosexuals). It's wonderful how Wizards did not mention homosexuality and bisexuality, though I'm sure that they couldn't have done that without putting the adult content label on it.
Even though they say it may make some players uncomfortable, does that mean they shouldn't give rules for it for those who aren't?

Psychospecies (p. 208) - Not exactly the same beef as above, but in this world of acceptance and tolerance, I must note, that there are people who include this as sane in their world view.

Other (p. 209) - Quixotism. Great to know that the Yanomami are insane and that their using of certain substances to more fully see the spirits is nothing but substance abuse.

In short, Dungeons & Dragons favors "sane" characters.

Can someone put me in my straight-jacket, now? . . . please. . . ?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
lordyuri24 03-12-04, 11:44 PM	I have always liked playing "unstable" characters. Phobias, narcissism, depression; I usally included some mental whackout in each of my characters, makes for a good game. When I first saw that there were new rules for playing mentally unbalanced characers I nearly wet my pants, until I read it. I mean, I am fully able to RP these conditions, but the rules behind them seem like a major hinderance without much cause. -4 to Attack Roles, Saves, and Checks for depression? With no reason to take it? Does anyone see the problem with this logic. I am all for fashioning characters around the RP, but to criple them from not having a jar of antidepressants seems kind of extreme. Does anyone use the rules for mental disorders?
trapspringer 03-13-04, 06:59 PM	I think the conditions are to be used when a player actually goes insane. There are rules for losing sanity in UA and I don't think they were designed purely for RP. They are like the mental equivelant of death.
Lankin the Mad Mage 03-14-04, 07:40 AM	I'm a bit confused as to what you try to say. Are you saying that insanity should give benefits, and that you're disappointed that it only lists negative results? Insanity is here handled as a kind of mental HP, the more you lose, the worse your mental health is. You don't have to use the worst forms of unbalance in the book. But insanity is here defined as something tha is radically disturbing, not only personality quirks.
lordyuri24 03-14-04, 08:49 AM	Originally posted by Lankin the Mad Mage I'm a bit confused as to what you try to say. Are you saying that insanity should give benefits, and that you're disappointed that it only lists negative results? Insanity is here handled as a kind of mental HP, the more you lose, the worse your mental health is. You don't have to use the worst forms of unbalance in the book. But insanity is here defined as something tha is radically disturbing, not only personality quirks. I was just inquiring as to the severity of some of the effects, being either too much or ot enough. My favourite example is depression, something I have combated for a good while, and I will be the first to say it's effects do wane and wax. The idea of a solid value to something as amorphous as depression just seems kind of limiting to me, as different people experience it in different ways.
Salla 03-14-04, 09:19 AM	Well, two points I think I can make here ... 1. This is only a quick gamer's guide to instabilities and insanities; creating detail for every disorder would require a book of its own. 2. It's insanity. It's not SUPPOSED to have an upside.
Veton 03-14-04, 06:50 PM	You could try talking to your DM to reduce the penalties for the various mental effects. Originally posted by Salla 2. It's insanity. It's not SUPPOSED to have an upside. What he is saying is that they're rather harsh with respect to the penalties they give.
Kastas 03-14-04, 07:58 PM	-4 sounds about right to me. You have to understand that they're differentiating between simply sulking and brooding all the time and actual clinical depression. Clinical depression is frequently characterized by lethargy and a lack of motivation or interest. Someone with severe depression would have difficulty finding the motivation to get out of bed in the morning, much less to chase monsters around dungeons and hack them up. Of course, this is a game, and something like that would not be very fun to roleplay. For that reason, they boil the effect down to a simple game mechanic (-4 penalty on most rolls).
Ulden Throatbane 03-14-04, 11:17 PM	If you want the "waxing and waning" aspect of depression, just make an alteration to the rule where you make a saving throw to see if you suffer the effects of depression that day.
jagggar 03-15-04, 11:23 AM	Originally posted by Salla 2. It's insanity. It's not SUPPOSED to have an upside. That's an obviously biased opinion from someone suffering from sanity. When actually looking at the book's suggestions, I see a few things which I recognize as wrong in general, not just in a fanciful game setting for "insanity." DID/MPD (p. 206) - IIRC, when different personalities have been given tests, they've come back with different results, therefore different mental scores would be in order. One personality could be a 6 year old and another one 27 with a college education, you're going to tell me they're equally as smart? For a great degree of seperation at a young age in a fantasy setting, I wouldn't say that the personalities had to share the same class. If one has a goal of being the world's greatest wizard and another of being the world's greatest swordsman, either someone's gunna find out about the other, or they've got strange ways of going about their goals. They should have included rules for when the personalities switch. Otherwise, "Hmmm. . . well his other personality knows that little bit of information we need. . . Bob the fighter takes over." Psychosexual (p. 208) - I'm not sure of the offical APA ruling, but I've met at least one person who according to UA is "insane". He (using what he considers himself) had gender reassignment surgery and takes hormones. The National Conference for Community and Justice (NCCJ) put information on transexuals in the same packet as homosexuals (packet on heterosexism: a system of advantage that favors homosexuals). It's wonderful how Wizards did not mention homosexuality and bisexuality, though I'm sure that they couldn't have done that without putting the adult content label on it. Even though they say it may make some players uncomfortable, does that mean they shouldn't give rules for it for those who aren't? Psychospecies (p. 208) - Not exactly the same beef as above, but in this world of acceptance and tolerance, I must note, that there are people who include this as sane in their world view. Other (p. 209) - Quixotism. Great to know that the Yanomami are insane and that their using of certain substances to more fully see the spirits is nothing but substance abuse. In short, Dungeons & Dragons favors "sane" characters. Can someone put me in my straight-jacket, now? . . . please. . . ?