Post/Author/DateTime	Post
necrosnoop110 09-09-04, 08:38 PM	I am kicking around the idea of twists and turns to add a little spice to a campaign without actually messing with the setting per se. The idea I have is to flat out tell my PCs that this go around I am running an “All for one, one for all” requirement. By this I mean that if any one member of the party dies and cannot be brought back by the following session the whole group reverts to NPCs and they must create new characters one level below the previous party’s average character level. This would help to foster two things, 1) group cooperation and 2) a real sense of danger. Caveat: This is merely an idea I am kicking around in the preliminary stages so I am looking for two kinds of feedback specific and general. Specific feedback is about how exactly one should implement this “Meta-Campaign Template”. General feedback includes your opinion of whether or not this is a good idea at all regardless of how exactly it is carried out. Thanks, Necro
keyunp 09-09-04, 09:06 PM	Give the players some kind of benefit to go with increased risk. Get their opinion before setting anything in stone. I don't see anything wrong with trying out the idea
necrosnoop110 09-09-04, 10:18 PM	Give the players some kind of benefit to go with increased risk. Get their opinion before setting anything in stone. I don't see anything wrong with trying out the idea 1) What kind of benefit do you think would be appropriate? 2) Do you think this idea could backfire on me?
Light Dragon 09-09-04, 11:02 PM	1.) Benefit? How about resurrection doen'st make the character lose a level 2.) Yes. People could lose interest.
Mizik 09-09-04, 11:19 PM	I would limit the use of this rule. first time would be fun but it might get annoying if they all lose if one dies. Maby use it if the party does not cooperate with each other. (disiplinary action) But in all I would only do it once maby twice but not continue if the pc's hate it. (talk to them about it)
starfire311 09-10-04, 04:47 PM	There could be a tangible benefit... you could give them all a bonus feat that has to do with working together. How about a feat called Teamwork: When you take this feat choose a team/goup, when aidng anyone of the choosen team/group you get a +2 on your check and you give them a +3 bonus instead of a +2. This feat could be very helpful. Or maybe the feat can also grant them a +3 on attack rolls, rather than +2, when flanking with a member of the team. Just ideas on stuff that would allow them to better work as a team. I, as a player, wouldn't obeject to this rule, but I would like a decent RP reason as to why my character feels this way about the rest of the group.
gbnogkfs 09-10-04, 05:15 PM	I remember reading somewhere about a feat that lets different characters all contribute with skill points and/or feats (I can't remember) to a common pool that could be somewhat used by all contributing members... I can't remember how it exactely worked, nor where I did read it (Dungeon Magazine, WotC site...?). Maybe someone here can remeber something similar...
jnrhayz 09-10-04, 05:25 PM	I see a problem if one person in the group tries to cause problems. Also, starting level is a problem. If I am level 2 and someone gets an unlucky crit I would be upset about making a new character. And, if you try to help out because of something heroic or just bad luck they might lose interest because they know "someone" is watching out for their characters and it might not be too fun. You may need to make the spells have easier access or something and remove the lost level for returning someone to life. Both of these could be abused though. It seems like a good idea, but with lots of holes. Normally I start my campaigns with everyone being friends or family or some other lame connection for this very reason. It is kinda cheesy, but it makes the game start easier and while party conflict can happen it is subdued because he is one of your best friends or your brother. It works especially well in an evil campaign.
philopharynx 09-10-04, 07:48 PM	I'm having a hard time seeing how the benefits outweigh the pitfalls. I think it would add a feeling of risk, but I'd be ****** to give up a character I thought was cool because Bob rolled a 1 on his save. Now to get a feeling of risk, eliminate any raising or resurrection magic. Death is final. For party unity, have them work together on shared backgrounds and play with mature players. ;)
keyunp 09-10-04, 09:16 PM	Its not that if a character dies the whole group looses. If/when a party member dies the group has to do everything it can do to bring the fallen member back. If this means that the fighter has to sell his favorite magic weapon to pay for the raise dead, then thats what they have to do. Ideas: Don't change the way the raise spells work (except maybe the cost). When someone dies you don't want the players to just pay out some money and not have to worry about death. Use some kind of in game benefit. The improved aid another mentioned before. +2 skill points / level bonus feat no multiclass penalty If you perform an action that saves a character from dieing, then both characters gain +1 HP permantly. Up to you max. Only once per encounter. Free Bloodline. Also could the reason that they are together
roll8dn 09-10-04, 09:22 PM	As a player who usually loves the "save the world from the big evil guy/girl/thing/force/creature/etc." plot, I like the idea of giving rewards to those who work together (xp awards are great for this, even if it's a small amount). The problem with your idea is that it penalizes those who roll unluckily (is that even a word in English?), as they will drag the entire group down (and probably start some OOC problems with those who are attached to their current characters). On the other hand, it is just about always a pain to have to sit on the sideline as the other players go on a quest to resurrect you. A good way to handle this would be to have the player who "died" handle a low-level NPC (of a level that would normally equal the original character's Leadership score), travelling with the group until they find a way to resurrect the old character. That way, the player need not sit out of the game until the old character is ressurected, and if the other characters really go on a quest to find someone who can bring back the dead you can have the character who was resurrected keep the NPC as a cohort (making things more interesting for the party). The only problem that I see with this is that you may end up with PCs who try to get themselves killed in order to gain a cohort. Obviously, you will have to make resurrection magic in your world rather hard to come by (perhaps the god of the dead really doesn't want to give up souls and it requires the direct intervention of a deity to bring someone back to life), so that the rewards equal the risk. Making it a really epic quest would make it a good idea to gain such a benefit. Of course, the above is just me firing ideas from the hip (hopefully not injuring anyone ;)), so take 'em with a grain of salt...
necrosnoop110 09-11-04, 01:23 AM	1) Thanks everyone great feedback! The more I read from you people the more interesting this idea becomes. 2) How about these terms: A) Have everyone create a given party and make them fully aware of the “all for one clause” namely that they create characters that can work together AND they will enjoy sticking with. B) Give them tangible benefits as others have mentioned, like, bloodlines, extra feats, group cooperation benefits, etc and create some thematic roleplaying reason for these extra “gifts” which will also add to the reason the group is together in the first place. C) When someone dies the players still continue controlling their PCs just no one can gain anymore XP at all until deceased character(s) are brought back from the dead. The person who died can bring in and use a temporary replacement character, at the party character level average, and uses this character until his/her old character has been brought back into play. To Summarize: a) Be clear and upfront about concept and design sensible characters with group unity in mind. b) Give tangible benefits to compensate for terms c) When any character in party dies all characters stop gaining XP until slain character is brought back to life. Player of slain character is given temporary PC until resurrection has been completed. What do you think of this idea under these conditions?
gbnogkfs 09-11-04, 11:06 AM	I found what I was speaking about: it's the Teamwork Pool rules in Dungeon 320
keyunp 09-11-04, 08:38 PM	Your proposal looks good. You just need to decide on what benefits.
Nifft 09-11-04, 09:11 PM	Got here late. One last thought: they make their PCs as 25 point buy (which is kinda low), but when they're all alive and together each PC gets a +4 unnamed bonus to the stat of their choice (chosen at character creation). Suddenly, there's a good reason for them to stick together -- they're each more powerful. Also, you could give the plot device a name (say, "psychic resonance"), and then have strange otherworldly (or underworldly) beings track the PCs down to learn how this strange effect works. Great excuse for bringing in Mind Flayers or Yuan-Ti. ;) -- N
necrosnoop110 09-11-04, 09:14 PM	Also, you could give the plot device a name (say, "psychic resonance") Nice one Nifft that's the kind of thing I'm looking for, thank you :D