Metamagic Component formula? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Metamagic Component formula? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
d_nychus
02-29-04, 11:23 AM Okay, I like the idea of metamagic components, but the big list they have in UA is really too...fixed.

I mean, having a widened fireball cost 1,900 gps is fine and all, but what if I want to make an empowered or maximized metamagic component?

I've been working on finding a formula by the table in UA, but I'm just not quite getting it. There seems to be both a multiplication and an addition in there that just is not working in my mind.

What I have gathers so far is that there is a base 50 gold for metamagics, and 0th level spells count as 1/2. Sometimes it seems that the additional metamagic determines the price, sometimes it seems that the overall spell level does. Frankly, I'm not even sure there is a formula, because too many things just do not seem to add up right.

So, I was wondering if anyone else had bothered to try to work it out.
Alienist Fetishist
03-02-04, 03:10 PM Not yet but I hope to crack the code this weekend.
Alienist Fetishist
03-03-04, 07:51 AM Oy:confused:

I need to set up a spreadsheet for this, taking into account spell level, meta level and pre-meta costs. This may take a while.

Why couldn't they include an equation?:banghead:
d_nychus
03-03-04, 01:07 PM I got a pile of scraps in my office box that I have been using to try to figure out the formula on my breaks at work (heh, I prefer working things out on paper, though I might try a spreadsheet too some time), but so far, it really seems there are FAR more exceptions then there are rules. Every time I think I am on to something, another group of spells totally alters it.

I'm feeling like your latter smilie right now. If you do get something, please let me know. However, I am fairly certain you're going to find them mostly random as I have.
Alienist Fetishist
03-03-04, 04:07 PM In my game I'm going to create a formula that roughly follows the list. Because I know players will exploit any possible weakness without hard and fast rules.

I hope to do some more late tonight but we'll see.
Kapture
03-04-04, 12:30 PM I haven't done the math for this... but looking at how uneven the costs looked I thought I might try the following:

Metamagic Component = Cost of a scroll of the metamagiced spell - Cost of a scroll of the spell.

It would make a kind of sense to me. Basically, you're just paing the difference between the spell (which you already have) and the metamagic levels (which you have not prepared yourself). Although I think it's awkward.

Why they didn't include a formula, or at least guidelines, is beyond me.
Alienist Fetishist
03-04-04, 01:55 PM Sounds good to me. If I can find something that even approximates the cost I'll house rule it.

I suspect it should cost a little more than the scroll formula (10%) just for the lack of XP cost.
FenixZero
03-04-04, 02:47 PM I dont know how you are grouping them but maybe the formulas are different for ech type of metamagic. One for max and another for empower, try it that way, and tell me what you get.

I don't have my copy yet so I read it at the bookstore until that day.:D

FenixZero
Alienist Fetishist
03-05-04, 10:07 AM Okay here is the formula:

[(cost of scroll with meta magic) - (cost of scroll of original spell)]

x1.5

Then they rounded off.

:tiphat: Thanks to Kapture for the scroll idea

I checked it on a couple dozen spells
FenixZero
03-05-04, 12:26 PM And you understand that players really aren't soppused to buy those MC they are supposed to be special or at the very least hard to find.

FenixZero
Kapture
03-05-04, 01:26 PM Originally posted by Alienist Fetishist
Okay here is the formula:

[(cost of scroll with meta magic) - (cost of scroll of original spell)]

x1.5

Then they rounded off.

:tiphat: Thanks to Kapture for the scroll idea

I checked it on a couple dozen spells

Thenk you veddy much.

And thank you for doing the actual work.

And to Fenix: Although I see your point, I'm not sure why it would be unbalancing to allow someone to buy the components. It would still, theoretically, be within an individual characters equipment allotment.

It would seem more a matter of individual campaign style.
Alienist Fetishist
03-05-04, 03:51 PM In essence you pay 50% extra to stack a Meta Feat onto an existing spell. A hefty penalty but a big advantage.

And how many Druid Tended Mushrooms could possibly be availible?

I can't wait to see a couple of players maxing out their Proffession:Taxidermy skills.
d_nychus
03-08-04, 01:06 PM Thank you very much Alienist.

I think you just saved a rainforest worth of trees in my office. I doubt I would have EVER figured that out on my own.
Etiquette_Gnome
03-08-04, 02:10 PM I've always wondered about this. When they post such huge tables of stuff, going off of a formula, why don't they list the formula for people who want to expand the table (the ELH and its treasure table is the most notorious about this)?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
d_nychus 02-29-04, 11:23 AM	Okay, I like the idea of metamagic components, but the big list they have in UA is really too...fixed. I mean, having a widened fireball cost 1,900 gps is fine and all, but what if I want to make an empowered or maximized metamagic component? I've been working on finding a formula by the table in UA, but I'm just not quite getting it. There seems to be both a multiplication and an addition in there that just is not working in my mind. What I have gathers so far is that there is a base 50 gold for metamagics, and 0th level spells count as 1/2. Sometimes it seems that the additional metamagic determines the price, sometimes it seems that the overall spell level does. Frankly, I'm not even sure there is a formula, because too many things just do not seem to add up right. So, I was wondering if anyone else had bothered to try to work it out.
Alienist Fetishist 03-02-04, 03:10 PM	Not yet but I hope to crack the code this weekend.
Alienist Fetishist 03-03-04, 07:51 AM	Oy:confused: I need to set up a spreadsheet for this, taking into account spell level, meta level and pre-meta costs. This may take a while. Why couldn't they include an equation?:banghead:
d_nychus 03-03-04, 01:07 PM	I got a pile of scraps in my office box that I have been using to try to figure out the formula on my breaks at work (heh, I prefer working things out on paper, though I might try a spreadsheet too some time), but so far, it really seems there are FAR more exceptions then there are rules. Every time I think I am on to something, another group of spells totally alters it. I'm feeling like your latter smilie right now. If you do get something, please let me know. However, I am fairly certain you're going to find them mostly random as I have.
Alienist Fetishist 03-03-04, 04:07 PM	In my game I'm going to create a formula that roughly follows the list. Because I know players will exploit any possible weakness without hard and fast rules. I hope to do some more late tonight but we'll see.
Kapture 03-04-04, 12:30 PM	I haven't done the math for this... but looking at how uneven the costs looked I thought I might try the following: Metamagic Component = Cost of a scroll of the metamagiced spell - Cost of a scroll of the spell. It would make a kind of sense to me. Basically, you're just paing the difference between the spell (which you already have) and the metamagic levels (which you have not prepared yourself). Although I think it's awkward. Why they didn't include a formula, or at least guidelines, is beyond me.
Alienist Fetishist 03-04-04, 01:55 PM	Sounds good to me. If I can find something that even approximates the cost I'll house rule it. I suspect it should cost a little more than the scroll formula (10%) just for the lack of XP cost.
FenixZero 03-04-04, 02:47 PM	I dont know how you are grouping them but maybe the formulas are different for ech type of metamagic. One for max and another for empower, try it that way, and tell me what you get. I don't have my copy yet so I read it at the bookstore until that day.:D FenixZero
Alienist Fetishist 03-05-04, 10:07 AM	Okay here is the formula: [(cost of scroll with meta magic) - (cost of scroll of original spell)] x1.5 Then they rounded off. :tiphat: Thanks to Kapture for the scroll idea I checked it on a couple dozen spells
FenixZero 03-05-04, 12:26 PM	And you understand that players really aren't soppused to buy those MC they are supposed to be special or at the very least hard to find. FenixZero
Kapture 03-05-04, 01:26 PM	Originally posted by Alienist Fetishist Okay here is the formula: [(cost of scroll with meta magic) - (cost of scroll of original spell)] x1.5 Then they rounded off. :tiphat: Thanks to Kapture for the scroll idea I checked it on a couple dozen spells Thenk you veddy much. And thank you for doing the actual work. And to Fenix: Although I see your point, I'm not sure why it would be unbalancing to allow someone to buy the components. It would still, theoretically, be within an individual characters equipment allotment. It would seem more a matter of individual campaign style.
Alienist Fetishist 03-05-04, 03:51 PM	In essence you pay 50% extra to stack a Meta Feat onto an existing spell. A hefty penalty but a big advantage. And how many Druid Tended Mushrooms could possibly be availible? I can't wait to see a couple of players maxing out their Proffession:Taxidermy skills.
d_nychus 03-08-04, 01:06 PM	Thank you very much Alienist. I think you just saved a rainforest worth of trees in my office. I doubt I would have EVER figured that out on my own.
Etiquette_Gnome 03-08-04, 02:10 PM	I've always wondered about this. When they post such huge tables of stuff, going off of a formula, why don't they list the formula for people who want to expand the table (the ELH and its treasure table is the most notorious about this)?