Metamagic [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Metamagic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lothar
04-01-04, 09:39 PM Metamagic feats are nearly useless for spellcasters if it cannot be used spontaneously! They have to reach the Auto Metamagic Epic Feats to make good use of them... but they are unbalanced: (6 epic feats to cast silent/still spells while 3 epic feats will allow you to cast quicken spells?).

The psionics handbook has the greatest system for metamagic (metapsionic) feats: They can be used spontaneously, having a power points cost & they can be used on any powers (including 9th powers level)

The variants proposed by the unearthed arcana:
-Daily Uses: The metamagic feat can be used only 3/day and you still can't use them on your highest level spell... (The heighten spell feat will kill anything)

-Extra Spell Slots: It is to expensive to cast a metamagic spell, you'll prefer to simply forget that metamagic feats exists.

-Spell points: Looks like the psionics system... but we still can't use metamagic feats on 9th spell level... (What about the Wizard Specialist?)

THERE IS WHAT I PROPOSE:
All metamagic feats your character possess can be applied to any of your spells but your spellcasting related stat has to be equal or higher to the total level of the metamagic spell +10.

For example: Your level 17 Necromancer has to cast a silent/still/quickened Wail of the Banshee. (9th level+1+1+4= 15)
So the Necromancer will need an Intelligence of 25 or higher to be able to cast the silent/still/quickened Wail of the Banshee!

NB:I never really found anything logical in the spell per day system but I prefer to use it than the spell points system... why? The spell points system will let your low level spells on the bench while you will spend all your points on higher level spells...
(Overpowering spellcasters)
Lothar
04-01-04, 09:55 PM I forgot to specify two things:

First,
in the example with the silent/still/quicken Wail of the Banshee, the used spell slot would be a 9th lv slot as if the spell would not be subject to metamagic, the DC for the save is the same as a 9th level spell, etc.

Second,
Using this system, the Heighten Spell feat will bu used the same way it is used normally!

Thanks, I hope you will enjoy to use this system for your spellcasters!!!
Weenie
04-03-04, 07:58 PM Originally posted by Lothar
The psionics handbook has the greatest system for metamagic (metapsionic) feats: They can be used spontaneously, having a power points cost & they can be used on any powers (including 9th powers level)

Not really... there's a metapsionic cap, which basically imposes the spellcaster's limit on psions. People often overlook this.
His Majesty
04-04-04, 05:00 AM SRD:
QUICKEN SPELL [METAMAGIC]
Benefit: Casting a quickened spell is a free action. You can perform another action, even casting another spell, in the same round as you cast a quickened spell. You may cast only one quickened spell per round. A spell whose casting time is more than 1 full round action cannot be quickened. A quickened spell uses up a spell slot four levels higher than the spell’s actual level. Casting a quickened spell doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity.
Special: This feat can’t be applied to any spell cast spontaneously (including sorcerer spells, bard spells, and cleric or druid spells cast spontaneously), since applying a metamagic feat to a spontaneously cast spell automatically increases the casting time to a full-round action.
So it's pointless to make a quickened spell silent and stilled, since it's already a purely mental action.
Bifford
04-04-04, 02:20 PM But you're forgetting silence spells and armor. Quicken Spell won't give you those benefits (I imagine casting a quickened spells involves snapping your fingers and saying "zap!"). I once thought as you did, but then I realised that it would make the Automatic Still and Silent Spell epic feats obsolete once you started taking Automatic Quicken Spell.
Lothar
04-04-04, 02:30 PM Yes, I tought the same too...
If you look at the p.83 in the Epic Level Handbook, the epic spell named Momento Mori is a silent/still/quickned spell.
So it confirms that a quicken spell is not only a mental action...
It would probably need a single word and a single movement to cast a quickened spell.
Lord Arkhaven
04-06-04, 02:31 PM Originally posted by Lothar
Metamagic feats are nearly useless for spellcasters if it cannot be used spontaneously!

You are incorrect. You should play more and post less.

Have a nice day.

:)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lothar 04-01-04, 09:39 PM	Metamagic feats are nearly useless for spellcasters if it cannot be used spontaneously! They have to reach the Auto Metamagic Epic Feats to make good use of them... but they are unbalanced: (6 epic feats to cast silent/still spells while 3 epic feats will allow you to cast quicken spells?). The psionics handbook has the greatest system for metamagic (metapsionic) feats: They can be used spontaneously, having a power points cost & they can be used on any powers (including 9th powers level) The variants proposed by the unearthed arcana: -Daily Uses: The metamagic feat can be used only 3/day and you still can't use them on your highest level spell... (The heighten spell feat will kill anything) -Extra Spell Slots: It is to expensive to cast a metamagic spell, you'll prefer to simply forget that metamagic feats exists. -Spell points: Looks like the psionics system... but we still can't use metamagic feats on 9th spell level... (What about the Wizard Specialist?) THERE IS WHAT I PROPOSE: All metamagic feats your character possess can be applied to any of your spells but your spellcasting related stat has to be equal or higher to the total level of the metamagic spell +10. For example: Your level 17 Necromancer has to cast a silent/still/quickened Wail of the Banshee. (9th level+1+1+4= 15) So the Necromancer will need an Intelligence of 25 or higher to be able to cast the silent/still/quickened Wail of the Banshee! NB:I never really found anything logical in the spell per day system but I prefer to use it than the spell points system... why? The spell points system will let your low level spells on the bench while you will spend all your points on higher level spells... (Overpowering spellcasters)
Lothar 04-01-04, 09:55 PM	I forgot to specify two things: First, in the example with the silent/still/quicken Wail of the Banshee, the used spell slot would be a 9th lv slot as if the spell would not be subject to metamagic, the DC for the save is the same as a 9th level spell, etc. Second, Using this system, the Heighten Spell feat will bu used the same way it is used normally! Thanks, I hope you will enjoy to use this system for your spellcasters!!!
Weenie 04-03-04, 07:58 PM	Originally posted by Lothar The psionics handbook has the greatest system for metamagic (metapsionic) feats: They can be used spontaneously, having a power points cost & they can be used on any powers (including 9th powers level) Not really... there's a metapsionic cap, which basically imposes the spellcaster's limit on psions. People often overlook this.
His Majesty 04-04-04, 05:00 AM	SRD: QUICKEN SPELL [METAMAGIC] Benefit: Casting a quickened spell is a free action. You can perform another action, even casting another spell, in the same round as you cast a quickened spell. You may cast only one quickened spell per round. A spell whose casting time is more than 1 full round action cannot be quickened. A quickened spell uses up a spell slot four levels higher than the spell’s actual level. Casting a quickened spell doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. Special: This feat can’t be applied to any spell cast spontaneously (including sorcerer spells, bard spells, and cleric or druid spells cast spontaneously), since applying a metamagic feat to a spontaneously cast spell automatically increases the casting time to a full-round action. So it's pointless to make a quickened spell silent and stilled, since it's already a purely mental action.
Bifford 04-04-04, 02:20 PM	But you're forgetting silence spells and armor. Quicken Spell won't give you those benefits (I imagine casting a quickened spells involves snapping your fingers and saying "zap!"). I once thought as you did, but then I realised that it would make the Automatic Still and Silent Spell epic feats obsolete once you started taking Automatic Quicken Spell.
Lothar 04-04-04, 02:30 PM	Yes, I tought the same too... If you look at the p.83 in the Epic Level Handbook, the epic spell named Momento Mori is a silent/still/quickned spell. So it confirms that a quicken spell is not only a mental action... It would probably need a single word and a single movement to cast a quickened spell.
Lord Arkhaven 04-06-04, 02:31 PM	Originally posted by Lothar Metamagic feats are nearly useless for spellcasters if it cannot be used spontaneously! You are incorrect. You should play more and post less. Have a nice day. :)