More House Rules... Part 2 [Archive] - Wizards Community

More House Rules... Part 2 [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
jnrhayz
03-14-05, 09:17 AM Well, here are some things I looked at changing regarding the races. I discussed a lot of this on the races section before the change over. I think those discussions were lost. I would appreciate any feedback.

***Disclaimer: Some of this stuff may be stolen (thanks to anyone who recognizes something they posted) and none of these changes have been playtested with me as the DM.

Dwarf: Women have beards. *They always have, they always will.*

Dwarf: +2 Constitution, -2 Dexterity *While dwarves are gruff in initial meetings, they develop strong relationships and make great military leaders. Their unusual dimensions make for a decreased dexterity.*

Elf: +2 Wisdom, -2 Constitution *Elves while frail, are not more dexterous than humans. However, their long lifespans' allow for better contemplation resulting in increased wisdom. (Of course they still view themselves as superior and may not share their insightful viewpoints.)*

Elf: Favored Class: Ranger *While elves do follow the arcane arts, their homes are the woodlands and they have spent generations learning to fight and protect their homes*

Half-Elf: +4 Skill Points at Level 1, +1 skill point each following level *This follows the half-elf ability to wander and their human heritage*

Half-Elf: Favored Class: Bard *Half-Elves tend to have a desire to find their place in the world and wander searching for new things and ideas.*

Gnomes: +2 Intelligence, -2 Strength, -2 Wisdom. *Gnomes have an inventive nature, however, they are not as strong as the larger races and they sometimes don’t think their plans through before implementing them.*

Gnomes: Favored class: Wizard. *Gnomes are fascinated by the arcane arts and have spent generations studying them.*

Gnomes: Scent may be taken as a feat. *The gnomes have developed keen noses when dealing with Alchemical processes.*

Gnomes: +1 Save resistance to all spells and spell-like effects(this replaces +2 save vs. illusions) *Their penchant for invention and magic has developed a necessary protection from magical effects.*

Half-Orcs treat the Orc Double Axe as a Martial weapon instead of an Exotic weapon, if their class at first level grants proficiency with all martial weapons. *While a half-Orc may be raised by humans, they develop an instinctual ability to wield this weapon after pursuing a martial based career.*

Half-Orc's gain +2 racial bonus to Intimidate *Half-Orcs are scary looking, big, or just know how to bring out their Orc heritage in an intimidating manner.*

Half-Orc: Bonus Feat *This represents the human side.*

***Edit:
Changed wording of Half-Orc Orc Double Axe proficiency mod.
Taralist
03-14-05, 10:55 AM First of all I have to say that I'm opposed to messing with the basic racial traits of the core races. We'll have to see what everyone else thinks.

But, If you're going to do it here are my thoughts on the matter.

"Dwarf: +2 Constitution, -2 Dexterity *While dwarves are gruff in initial meetings, they develop strong relationships and make great military leaders. Their unusual dimensions make for a decreased dexterity.*"

Dwarves really shouldnt take a hit to dex because of thier forms. This is thier natural form for thier race, always has been. You can't compare real world "little people" with a D&D dwarf. They are a different race altogether. I think the cha. penalty is much more apropriate. And yes the females should at least have stubble.

"Elves while frail, are not more dexterous than humans."

I'm sorry but elves are more dexterous than humans, in any book you read, in any given mythology. I see the logic behind the boost to wis. but it could also apply to int. The thing is with elves: they have a long lifespan, so they view time in a different way, they don't hurry and scurry around the same way that the shorter lived races do. They are laid back and take things slowly as they come, this is why they don't get bonuses to wis. or int. Thier lives last 1500 years or so, but they only truely "live" as much as human in that amount of time.
As far as thier favored class goes, if you're going to change it, you should do it by the sub-race of elf rather than lumping them all into "ranger". The attitudes/social structure/economy ect... are completely different with each type of elf....Ranger only really should apply to Wood Elf or Wild Elf. Both high elves, grey elves and Drow tend to create highly evolved, structured societies sometimes far beyond that of humanity. If you want to go into the FR setting there are a whole slew of different types of elves. Each could warrant a different "favored class".

Half elves, the skill boost is cool, but I really dont see why. With reguards to thier favored class, I think it should remain any. As you said, they tend to wander but thier human blood should still give them the the option of picking up any trade. It's part of the reasoning behind playing a 1/2 elf, you get a little bit of human and a little bit of elf.

Gnomes: I don't really care. I don't really like them and don't play them. Same goes for 1/2 orcs.
Lord_Anthrax
03-14-05, 10:55 AM Not too crazy about Dwarf women having beards, but that's your call.

All the others look fine, though I think rephrasing the Half-Orc's line about Orc Double Axes to "Half-Orcs treat the Orc Double Axe as a Martial weapon instead of an Exotic weapon" would work better.
jnrhayz
03-14-05, 11:22 AM Dwarves really shouldnt take a hit to dex because of thier forms. This is thier natural form for thier race, always has been. You can't compare real world "little people" with a D&D dwarf. They are a different race altogether. I think the cha. penalty is much more apropriate. And yes the females should at least have stubble.

Well, I don't agree with the charisma penalty. Dwarves are good traders, good military leaders, and make good, loyal friends. The only time they have low charisma is during initial meetings or if they don't like you.

the dex penalty comes from the fact that they do have odd dimensions. They already have decreased speed (20ft) because of this. Also, the favored class of fighter leads to the fact most(<-Key word here) are trained to use Armor and not rely on dex during a fight.

Not too crazy about Dwarf women having beards, but that's your call.

Well, I guess I am old school here. I might come around in the future, but I will cling to this a little longer.

Half elves, the skill boost is cool, but I really dont see why. With reguards to thier favored class, I think it should remain any.

Well, by giving the skill boost I still need a reason to play a human. Also, why does the half-elf not have a favored class, but the Half-orc does?

As far as thier favored class goes, if you're going to change it, you should do it by the sub-race of elf rather than lumping them all into "ranger". The attitudes/social structure/economy ect... are completely different with each type of elf....Ranger only really should apply to Wood Elf or Wild Elf. Both high elves, grey elves and Drow tend to create highly evolved, structured societies sometimes far beyond that of humanity. If you want to go into the FR setting there are a whole slew of different types of elves. Each could warrant a different "favored class".

Well, I will take elf subraces on a case by case basis. In my previous rules set, you will notice I do not include any book with subraces in it. I want complete control of subraces in my games for worldbuilding and storyline control. That doesn't mean they aren't available, it just means I want control over whether to allow it in the current game and any changes I want to make at that time. I will work that out with each specific player (or group if more than one player wants to play a certain subrace).

I'm sorry but elves are more dexterous than humans, in any book you read, in any given mythology.

I don't think it is explained well why they are more dextrous. If living in the trees is a reason (in D&D) then why isn't climbing dex based? I don't know. I think elves could easily be made into a Level adjustment class. The real idea was to try to apply a race with the ability adjustment to wisdom. With the change to gnome, the only abilities not affected are wisdom and charisma. I thought of applying a charisma bonus to half-elves, but I went with the skills bonus instead.

I will look at this more and any suggestions would be welcome.

All the others look fine, though I think rephrasing the Half-Orc's line about Orc Double Axes to "Half-Orcs treat the Orc Double Axe as a Martial weapon instead of an Exotic weapon" would work better.

I think you are right, thank you.
God of Slivers
03-14-05, 03:18 PM So what did you give to humans? You must have given them something else because you gave away both their extra skill points and their extra feat. So what do us humans get (the shaft?)?
jnrhayz
03-14-05, 03:47 PM Humans are the only race with no favored class.

Also, in another section, I give any character who keeps his favored class as his prominent class an extra skill point, which would be another free skill point for humans because I don't make the player decide a favored class.

In truth, this rewards demi-humans who play their favored classes and retains the humans versatility. At least that is the goal.

If you want to review the rule, stay tuned. I will post it tomorrow or Wednesday. I am trying to give each section some time on the boards so I each thing gets enough consideration. Although I know this causes some difficulty in understanding how they relate. I can only say sorry about that.
Cymraegmorgan
03-14-05, 04:27 PM Not too crazy about Dwarf women having beards, but that's your call.

I second that!!
HailSpork
03-15-05, 01:16 AM ***Disclaimer: Some of this stuff may be stolen (thanks to anyone who recognizes something they posted)
Isn't that standard for everything in this forum? Well, stealing them for purposes of using them in your game, anyway...
If the second part is important to you, then you should probably credit Andrew Finch for the +1 skill points per level for half-elves. (see page 40 of UA)
Of course, it is quite possible that you both came up with that idea independently...

First of all I have to say that I'm opposed to messing with the basic racial traits of the core races. We'll have to see what everyone else thinks.
Provided you're not playing Greyhawk (or any other published world), I find absolutely nothing wrong with this. Personally, I've provided alternative races as subraces rather than replacing the standard race in *most* cases.

I like the change to dwarves. They have short, stocky legs and relatively dense bodies. Besides, dwarf women can't not have beards; John Rhys-Davies (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0722636/) says so.

I'm sorry but elves are more dexterous than humans, in any book you read, in any given mythology.
Are you certain? Because, you know, in some versions Norse mythology, dark elves are synonymous with dwarves (http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~cherryne/myth.cgi/Svartalfheim.html). Well, at least the way I interpretted that; I'm far from an expert on the subject.
Anyway, DnD elves are hardly related to mythology. They're more based on Tolkien. While Legolas was most definately agile, it may be possible that he is exemplary in that reguards. I see nothing wrong with a wiser, more physically human, elf.

The +2 intimidate makes perfect sense to me, but I think you may be overpowering half-orcs a little with the bonus feat. Afterall, they're the only base race that gets a bonus to strength *and* they get darkvision.
Perhaps a half-orc with more human features gets a bonus feat, while the more orc-like ones get darkvision?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jnrhayz 03-14-05, 09:17 AM	Well, here are some things I looked at changing regarding the races. I discussed a lot of this on the races section before the change over. I think those discussions were lost. I would appreciate any feedback. **Disclaimer: Some of this stuff may be stolen (thanks to anyone who recognizes something they posted) and none of these changes have been playtested with me as the DM. Dwarf: Women have beards. They always have, they always will.* Dwarf: +2 Constitution, -2 Dexterity While dwarves are gruff in initial meetings, they develop strong relationships and make great military leaders. Their unusual dimensions make for a decreased dexterity. Elf: +2 Wisdom, -2 Constitution Elves while frail, are not more dexterous than humans. However, their long lifespans' allow for better contemplation resulting in increased wisdom. (Of course they still view themselves as superior and may not share their insightful viewpoints.) Elf: Favored Class: Ranger While elves do follow the arcane arts, their homes are the woodlands and they have spent generations learning to fight and protect their homes Half-Elf: +4 Skill Points at Level 1, +1 skill point each following level This follows the half-elf ability to wander and their human heritage Half-Elf: Favored Class: Bard Half-Elves tend to have a desire to find their place in the world and wander searching for new things and ideas. Gnomes: +2 Intelligence, -2 Strength, -2 Wisdom. Gnomes have an inventive nature, however, they are not as strong as the larger races and they sometimes don’t think their plans through before implementing them. Gnomes: Favored class: Wizard. Gnomes are fascinated by the arcane arts and have spent generations studying them. Gnomes: Scent may be taken as a feat. The gnomes have developed keen noses when dealing with Alchemical processes. Gnomes: +1 Save resistance to all spells and spell-like effects(this replaces +2 save vs. illusions) Their penchant for invention and magic has developed a necessary protection from magical effects. Half-Orcs treat the Orc Double Axe as a Martial weapon instead of an Exotic weapon, if their class at first level grants proficiency with all martial weapons. While a half-Orc may be raised by humans, they develop an instinctual ability to wield this weapon after pursuing a martial based career. Half-Orc's gain +2 racial bonus to Intimidate Half-Orcs are scary looking, big, or just know how to bring out their Orc heritage in an intimidating manner. Half-Orc: Bonus Feat This represents the human side. ***Edit: Changed wording of Half-Orc Orc Double Axe proficiency mod.
Taralist 03-14-05, 10:55 AM	First of all I have to say that I'm opposed to messing with the basic racial traits of the core races. We'll have to see what everyone else thinks. But, If you're going to do it here are my thoughts on the matter. "Dwarf: +2 Constitution, -2 Dexterity While dwarves are gruff in initial meetings, they develop strong relationships and make great military leaders. Their unusual dimensions make for a decreased dexterity." Dwarves really shouldnt take a hit to dex because of thier forms. This is thier natural form for thier race, always has been. You can't compare real world "little people" with a D&D dwarf. They are a different race altogether. I think the cha. penalty is much more apropriate. And yes the females should at least have stubble. "Elves while frail, are not more dexterous than humans." I'm sorry but elves are more dexterous than humans, in any book you read, in any given mythology. I see the logic behind the boost to wis. but it could also apply to int. The thing is with elves: they have a long lifespan, so they view time in a different way, they don't hurry and scurry around the same way that the shorter lived races do. They are laid back and take things slowly as they come, this is why they don't get bonuses to wis. or int. Thier lives last 1500 years or so, but they only truely "live" as much as human in that amount of time. As far as thier favored class goes, if you're going to change it, you should do it by the sub-race of elf rather than lumping them all into "ranger". The attitudes/social structure/economy ect... are completely different with each type of elf....Ranger only really should apply to Wood Elf or Wild Elf. Both high elves, grey elves and Drow tend to create highly evolved, structured societies sometimes far beyond that of humanity. If you want to go into the FR setting there are a whole slew of different types of elves. Each could warrant a different "favored class". Half elves, the skill boost is cool, but I really dont see why. With reguards to thier favored class, I think it should remain any. As you said, they tend to wander but thier human blood should still give them the the option of picking up any trade. It's part of the reasoning behind playing a 1/2 elf, you get a little bit of human and a little bit of elf. Gnomes: I don't really care. I don't really like them and don't play them. Same goes for 1/2 orcs.
Lord_Anthrax 03-14-05, 10:55 AM	Not too crazy about Dwarf women having beards, but that's your call. All the others look fine, though I think rephrasing the Half-Orc's line about Orc Double Axes to "Half-Orcs treat the Orc Double Axe as a Martial weapon instead of an Exotic weapon" would work better.
jnrhayz 03-14-05, 11:22 AM	Dwarves really shouldnt take a hit to dex because of thier forms. This is thier natural form for thier race, always has been. You can't compare real world "little people" with a D&D dwarf. They are a different race altogether. I think the cha. penalty is much more apropriate. And yes the females should at least have stubble. Well, I don't agree with the charisma penalty. Dwarves are good traders, good military leaders, and make good, loyal friends. The only time they have low charisma is during initial meetings or if they don't like you. the dex penalty comes from the fact that they do have odd dimensions. They already have decreased speed (20ft) because of this. Also, the favored class of fighter leads to the fact most(<-Key word here) are trained to use Armor and not rely on dex during a fight. Not too crazy about Dwarf women having beards, but that's your call. Well, I guess I am old school here. I might come around in the future, but I will cling to this a little longer. Half elves, the skill boost is cool, but I really dont see why. With reguards to thier favored class, I think it should remain any. Well, by giving the skill boost I still need a reason to play a human. Also, why does the half-elf not have a favored class, but the Half-orc does? As far as thier favored class goes, if you're going to change it, you should do it by the sub-race of elf rather than lumping them all into "ranger". The attitudes/social structure/economy ect... are completely different with each type of elf....Ranger only really should apply to Wood Elf or Wild Elf. Both high elves, grey elves and Drow tend to create highly evolved, structured societies sometimes far beyond that of humanity. If you want to go into the FR setting there are a whole slew of different types of elves. Each could warrant a different "favored class". Well, I will take elf subraces on a case by case basis. In my previous rules set, you will notice I do not include any book with subraces in it. I want complete control of subraces in my games for worldbuilding and storyline control. That doesn't mean they aren't available, it just means I want control over whether to allow it in the current game and any changes I want to make at that time. I will work that out with each specific player (or group if more than one player wants to play a certain subrace). I'm sorry but elves are more dexterous than humans, in any book you read, in any given mythology. I don't think it is explained well why they are more dextrous. If living in the trees is a reason (in D&D) then why isn't climbing dex based? I don't know. I think elves could easily be made into a Level adjustment class. The real idea was to try to apply a race with the ability adjustment to wisdom. With the change to gnome, the only abilities not affected are wisdom and charisma. I thought of applying a charisma bonus to half-elves, but I went with the skills bonus instead. I will look at this more and any suggestions would be welcome. All the others look fine, though I think rephrasing the Half-Orc's line about Orc Double Axes to "Half-Orcs treat the Orc Double Axe as a Martial weapon instead of an Exotic weapon" would work better. I think you are right, thank you.
God of Slivers 03-14-05, 03:18 PM	So what did you give to humans? You must have given them something else because you gave away both their extra skill points and their extra feat. So what do us humans get (the shaft?)?
jnrhayz 03-14-05, 03:47 PM	Humans are the only race with no favored class. Also, in another section, I give any character who keeps his favored class as his prominent class an extra skill point, which would be another free skill point for humans because I don't make the player decide a favored class. In truth, this rewards demi-humans who play their favored classes and retains the humans versatility. At least that is the goal. If you want to review the rule, stay tuned. I will post it tomorrow or Wednesday. I am trying to give each section some time on the boards so I each thing gets enough consideration. Although I know this causes some difficulty in understanding how they relate. I can only say sorry about that.
Cymraegmorgan 03-14-05, 04:27 PM	Not too crazy about Dwarf women having beards, but that's your call. I second that!!
HailSpork 03-15-05, 01:16 AM	**Disclaimer: Some of this stuff may be stolen (thanks to anyone who recognizes something they posted) Isn't that standard for everything in this forum? Well, stealing them for purposes of using them in your game, anyway... If the second part is important to you, then you should probably credit Andrew Finch for the +1 skill points per level for half-elves. (see page 40 of UA) Of course, it is quite possible that you both came up with that idea independently... First of all I have to say that I'm opposed to messing with the basic racial traits of the core races. We'll have to see what everyone else thinks. Provided you're not playing Greyhawk (or any other published world), I find absolutely nothing wrong with this. Personally, I've provided alternative races as subraces rather than replacing the standard race in most* cases. I like the change to dwarves. They have short, stocky legs and relatively dense bodies. Besides, dwarf women can't not have beards; John Rhys-Davies (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0722636/) says so. I'm sorry but elves are more dexterous than humans, in any book you read, in any given mythology. Are you certain? Because, you know, in some versions Norse mythology, dark elves are synonymous with dwarves (http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~cherryne/myth.cgi/Svartalfheim.html). Well, at least the way I interpretted that; I'm far from an expert on the subject. Anyway, DnD elves are hardly related to mythology. They're more based on Tolkien. While Legolas was most definately agile, it may be possible that he is exemplary in that reguards. I see nothing wrong with a wiser, more physically human, elf. The +2 intimidate makes perfect sense to me, but I think you may be overpowering half-orcs a little with the bonus feat. Afterall, they're the only base race that gets a bonus to strength and they get darkvision. Perhaps a half-orc with more human features gets a bonus feat, while the more orc-like ones get darkvision?