Most needed changes? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Most needed changes? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
fatmonkey
08-13-07, 02:50 PM There are lots of situations where the game can fall apart (Due to complexity making combat slow down, balance issues...). Particularly at high levels or involving certain spells. So my question is what house rules and optional rules have people found that make it so the game can continue to be fun for all players (be they powerful like Druids, Clerics, Wizards or not so powerful like Fighters and Monks) even as the game advances in high and possibly epic levels? Also what are the problems that you feel need to be dealt with?

One problem that I already am considering is "The Polymorph Problem"
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20060216a
Steely_Dan
08-14-07, 04:55 AM -22, 25, 28, or 32 Point Buy (depending on campaign)

-Fixed Hit Points for levelling (ala Living Greyhawk - d4 = 3, d6 = 4, d8 = 5, d10 = 6, d12 = 7)

-Maximum wealth at first level

-Any class with the Turning class ability uses the Complete Divine variant

-Druids do not gain wild shape, they may instead choose from a list of variants (from PHB II, UA, and Dragon magazine)

-No multi-class restrictions (monks/paladins etc) or XP penalties or favoured classes

-Saga skill system implemented

-Saga feats implemented (Double Attack, Mighty Swing etc)

-No Leadership Feat

-Saga combat system implemented (half character level as bonus to damage, no 5 ft. step, charge is a standard action, withdraw is a move action, no iterative attacks etc)

-Saving throw variant from Unearthed Arcana implemented (save scores/magic checks etc)

-No death from massive damage

-Per encounter based magic system

-The spell polymorph is replaced with the Polymorph sub-school from PHB II

-Fewer Absolutes implemented (article by Sean K Reynolds)

-Stephen “"Shoe" Schubert, Developer
It's You, Not Your Gear: Treasure is reduced 10-15% and permanent ability score boosting items are banned. Instead, characters get a stat increase at every even level (instead of every four levels) and a feat at every odd level.
Xaer
08-14-07, 10:31 AM Polymorph: You have to have actually encountered a creature before you can polymorph into it(eliminates the "my druid has memorized the MM, lets see what to transform into for this battle" mess)
BigGus
08-14-07, 11:12 AM Fewer Absolutes[/I] implemented (article by Sean K Reynolds)

Sounds interesting, where can I find this article?
Steely_Dan
08-14-07, 11:21 AM Sounds interesting, where can I find this article?

Unfortunately my link doesn't seem to work.

Try googling it.
Ghenesh
08-14-07, 12:29 PM Charging Damage: It's too easy to build uber-chargers, which ends combats in the first round, one way to pull this off is making the damage of Power Attack with a two handed weapon x1.5 instead of x2 (Power Attack is the most abused source of damage for charges), this will not only help you dealing with uber-chargers, but will also make the use of one handed weapons more balanced compared with two handed ones.

Skill Points fest: At higher levels the relevant skills are so high that players don't need to make checks at all, one idea is to reduce the number of skill points by 2 per level for all classes (except those with 2 + Int, those should be reduced to 1 + Int or kept as they are if the class is really lacking some love... fighter per example), but grant 10 or so more skill points at first level and a skill being chosen as class skill for the first class selected by the player. This will increase the value of feats related to skills.

Saves Inmunity: The good save table is wrong, when multiclassing you get a +2 for any good save the class has (this increases dramatically the base save bonus for the player and makes it inmune for a ton of effects). As a houserule i consider the good save bonus starting at +1 at the first class level and advance as usual (adding 1 every odd level).

Spells, feats and Class banning: Do not feel fear to ban spells, feats or classes (specifically prestige classes), it's almost impossible for you to learn what all spells, feats or class features can do in-game, specially if you use various book sources. If your players think that they can use everything published under the sun... they are wrong, you set the rules and, unless you say otherwise, the material that can be used must be accepted by you. What's best is to go case by case, if a player wants to take something you look at it first, next session you say yes or no. It's not the idea to limit too much player's choices, but then again think twice before letting a Frenzied Berserker in the party.

I know this are all nerfs, but at the end of the day... it's easier to nerf (or simply ban), if your players are not whiners. If your players are not mature enough to take any of your houserules, then it's better to give up the houserule, even if it affects game balance. Happy spoiled players usually means happy unspoiled campaigns.
Oldtimer
08-14-07, 01:16 PM Unfortunately my link doesn't seem to work.

Try googling it.

It's on his site www.seankreynolds.com.

But, he posted this on his blog yesterday:
My site has been hacked

Someone hacked my website and added to the main page and other pages a script that points to a virus download. I won't be able to strip out the offending scripts and upload clean pages until I get home tonight, but I've called my hosting company and they're dissasociating the domain name from the hosted site, so once that propagates you should just get a placeholder site. And I'm changing my password.

Sorry for the inconvenience. I'll blog when everything's been fixed.

So you'll have to wait a day or two to read it.

/Mikael
Tequila_Sunrise
08-14-07, 01:34 PM Unfortunately there are so many areas where the game can be streamlined that if you apply house rules to all of them, you begin to play another game. Though I do agree with most of the suggestions already mentioned.

"The Polymorph Problem" has never been a problem for me. When one of my players is a druid or polymorphing caster, they have to run all their morph forms by me before the game. if any of them are inappropriate for their level, I ban the form until later.
MikeyP
08-14-07, 02:10 PM It's on his site www.seankreynolds.com.

But, he posted this on his blog yesterday:

So you'll have to wait a day or two to read it.

/Mikael

If I recall correctly, the article was never really finished, correct?
fatmonkey
08-14-07, 03:03 PM Some of the Saga changes look interesting is there a SRD (one with hyperlinks would be nice) or is there a similar free rules resource for it?
MikeyP
08-14-07, 03:10 PM Some of the Saga changes look interesting is there a SRD (one with hyperlinks would be nice) or is there a similar free rules resource for it?

Actually, while we're on the subject, what exactly is it?
If there's no free SRD type info available, what book can it be found in?
fatmonkey
08-14-07, 04:38 PM I think Saga is Star Wars but I could be mistaken.
Carwyn_Nhung
08-15-07, 09:05 PM I agree, from the sound of the feats, saga is star wars saga edition. A nice system, and one that inspired me to try to integrate AC and Ref saves.

Where is the "You not your gear" varient suggested, and how does its balence compare?
My greatest bugbear is wealth-per-level combined with two many boring items. I'm not materialist and have little interest in monitering that stuff over personalities etc, so any system that reasonably replaces them and automates things seems really good to me.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
fatmonkey 08-13-07, 02:50 PM	There are lots of situations where the game can fall apart (Due to complexity making combat slow down, balance issues...). Particularly at high levels or involving certain spells. So my question is what house rules and optional rules have people found that make it so the game can continue to be fun for all players (be they powerful like Druids, Clerics, Wizards or not so powerful like Fighters and Monks) even as the game advances in high and possibly epic levels? Also what are the problems that you feel need to be dealt with? One problem that I already am considering is "The Polymorph Problem" http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20060216a
Steely_Dan 08-14-07, 04:55 AM	-22, 25, 28, or 32 Point Buy (depending on campaign) -Fixed Hit Points for levelling (ala Living Greyhawk - d4 = 3, d6 = 4, d8 = 5, d10 = 6, d12 = 7) -Maximum wealth at first level -Any class with the Turning class ability uses the Complete Divine variant -Druids do not gain wild shape, they may instead choose from a list of variants (from PHB II, UA, and Dragon magazine) -No multi-class restrictions (monks/paladins etc) or XP penalties or favoured classes -Saga skill system implemented -Saga feats implemented (Double Attack, Mighty Swing etc) -No Leadership Feat -Saga combat system implemented (half character level as bonus to damage, no 5 ft. step, charge is a standard action, withdraw is a move action, no iterative attacks etc) -Saving throw variant from Unearthed Arcana implemented (save scores/magic checks etc) -No death from massive damage -Per encounter based magic system -The spell polymorph is replaced with the Polymorph sub-school from PHB II -Fewer Absolutes implemented (article by Sean K Reynolds) -Stephen “"Shoe" Schubert, Developer It's You, Not Your Gear: Treasure is reduced 10-15% and permanent ability score boosting items are banned. Instead, characters get a stat increase at every even level (instead of every four levels) and a feat at every odd level.
Xaer 08-14-07, 10:31 AM	Polymorph: You have to have actually encountered a creature before you can polymorph into it(eliminates the "my druid has memorized the MM, lets see what to transform into for this battle" mess)
BigGus 08-14-07, 11:12 AM	Fewer Absolutes[/I] implemented (article by Sean K Reynolds) Sounds interesting, where can I find this article?
Steely_Dan 08-14-07, 11:21 AM	Sounds interesting, where can I find this article? Unfortunately my link doesn't seem to work. Try googling it.
Ghenesh 08-14-07, 12:29 PM	Charging Damage: It's too easy to build uber-chargers, which ends combats in the first round, one way to pull this off is making the damage of Power Attack with a two handed weapon x1.5 instead of x2 (Power Attack is the most abused source of damage for charges), this will not only help you dealing with uber-chargers, but will also make the use of one handed weapons more balanced compared with two handed ones. Skill Points fest: At higher levels the relevant skills are so high that players don't need to make checks at all, one idea is to reduce the number of skill points by 2 per level for all classes (except those with 2 + Int, those should be reduced to 1 + Int or kept as they are if the class is really lacking some love... fighter per example), but grant 10 or so more skill points at first level and a skill being chosen as class skill for the first class selected by the player. This will increase the value of feats related to skills. Saves Inmunity: The good save table is wrong, when multiclassing you get a +2 for any good save the class has (this increases dramatically the base save bonus for the player and makes it inmune for a ton of effects). As a houserule i consider the good save bonus starting at +1 at the first class level and advance as usual (adding 1 every odd level). Spells, feats and Class banning: Do not feel fear to ban spells, feats or classes (specifically prestige classes), it's almost impossible for you to learn what all spells, feats or class features can do in-game, specially if you use various book sources. If your players think that they can use everything published under the sun... they are wrong, you set the rules and, unless you say otherwise, the material that can be used must be accepted by you. What's best is to go case by case, if a player wants to take something you look at it first, next session you say yes or no. It's not the idea to limit too much player's choices, but then again think twice before letting a Frenzied Berserker in the party. I know this are all nerfs, but at the end of the day... it's easier to nerf (or simply ban), if your players are not whiners. If your players are not mature enough to take any of your houserules, then it's better to give up the houserule, even if it affects game balance. Happy spoiled players usually means happy unspoiled campaigns.
Oldtimer 08-14-07, 01:16 PM	Unfortunately my link doesn't seem to work. Try googling it. It's on his site www.seankreynolds.com. But, he posted this on his blog yesterday: My site has been hacked Someone hacked my website and added to the main page and other pages a script that points to a virus download. I won't be able to strip out the offending scripts and upload clean pages until I get home tonight, but I've called my hosting company and they're dissasociating the domain name from the hosted site, so once that propagates you should just get a placeholder site. And I'm changing my password. Sorry for the inconvenience. I'll blog when everything's been fixed. So you'll have to wait a day or two to read it. /Mikael
Tequila_Sunrise 08-14-07, 01:34 PM	Unfortunately there are so many areas where the game can be streamlined that if you apply house rules to all of them, you begin to play another game. Though I do agree with most of the suggestions already mentioned. "The Polymorph Problem" has never been a problem for me. When one of my players is a druid or polymorphing caster, they have to run all their morph forms by me before the game. if any of them are inappropriate for their level, I ban the form until later.
MikeyP 08-14-07, 02:10 PM	It's on his site www.seankreynolds.com. But, he posted this on his blog yesterday: So you'll have to wait a day or two to read it. /Mikael If I recall correctly, the article was never really finished, correct?
fatmonkey 08-14-07, 03:03 PM	Some of the Saga changes look interesting is there a SRD (one with hyperlinks would be nice) or is there a similar free rules resource for it?
MikeyP 08-14-07, 03:10 PM	Some of the Saga changes look interesting is there a SRD (one with hyperlinks would be nice) or is there a similar free rules resource for it? Actually, while we're on the subject, what exactly is it? If there's no free SRD type info available, what book can it be found in?
fatmonkey 08-14-07, 04:38 PM	I think Saga is Star Wars but I could be mistaken.
Carwyn_Nhung 08-15-07, 09:05 PM	I agree, from the sound of the feats, saga is star wars saga edition. A nice system, and one that inspired me to try to integrate AC and Ref saves. Where is the "You not your gear" varient suggested, and how does its balence compare? My greatest bugbear is wealth-per-level combined with two many boring items. I'm not materialist and have little interest in monitering that stuff over personalities etc, so any system that reasonably replaces them and automates things seems really good to me.