Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Templar_Prime 06-02-04, 08:23 PM	There are alternatives to most class abilities in UA, but oddly enough animal companions and special mounts went all but untouched. I've never liked the mount in the first place, as my idea of a paladin has nothing to do with a special horse or whatever. A couple ideas I had for alternitives: -qualify for fighter-only feats -fast movement as monk or barbarian -improved spellcasting -additional immunities -a 'fighting style' bonus as introduced by Guardians of Order in their Slayers D20 game (basically, a +1 bonus that can be applied at certain levels to AC, attacks, or damage, but only with a particular style such as two-weapon, sword and shield, single weapon, etc) I doubt any one of these would replace the power and utility of a mount (except perhaps the Style idea). I'm open to suggestions.
Jaerom Darkwind 06-02-04, 08:33 PM	Well, it may not be exactly what you have in mind, but the paladin revision found in my sig has no mount.
eclipticavatar 06-03-04, 04:36 PM	Replace mount with animal companion as an optional rule.
Salla 06-03-04, 04:59 PM	I'd give you a bonus feat off the Fighter list at levels 1,5,10,15,20. Since the mount is a combat helper, this gives you some more combat options.
danielinthewolvesden 06-03-04, 07:06 PM	CW gives you a Spell-less Pally (and Ranger) so I'd guess that a Mountless Pally would be about the same....?
MaverickWolf 06-03-04, 07:58 PM	Definitely not. A paladin's mount is much better than a paladin's spellcasting, without a doubt. I'm not sure what to replace the mount with though...
DM Zoc 06-03-04, 11:18 PM	Generally speaking, I'd replace the mount with multi-classing.
Greyman 06-04-04, 12:14 AM	You could possibly replace it with Favoured Enemy, but starting at level 5 and every 5 levels thereafter, and limit the list to Abominations, Evil Outsiders, Undead, and typically evil Humanoid races, and the like.
trapspringer 06-04-04, 12:06 PM	I'm not sure a mount is better than casting. A mount is only useful in open spaces, and spellcasting is usefull all the time.
Vanamir 06-04-04, 12:41 PM	Originally posted by MaverickWolf Definitely not. A paladin's mount is much better than a paladin's spellcasting, without a doubt. I'm not sure what to replace the mount with though... That strongly depends on your GM. If you never have opportunities to actually ride your mount it is more of a burden than an asset. I have been thinking for a long time about an adequate alternative to the paladins mount but i haven't had one yet that really satisfies me. Up to now i have come up with the following ideas: Replace the special mount with the leadership feat. Grant a free divine feat (from DotF) instead of additional remove disease attempts per day. Give the paladin some sort of special weapon or armour that improves with increasing level similar to the ancestral daisho ability of the samurai from OA. Grant the paladin holy smite as a spell-like ability usable once per day for every five levels he has. Consider a paladins weapons as having the good and lawful abilities in regard to damage reduction.
TerrickTerran 06-05-04, 12:33 PM	When I decided to skip a mount(for an underdark campaign) I received a special weapon instead.
trapspringer 06-05-04, 03:18 PM	Free use of item familiar feat from UA!
paintedmask2 06-06-04, 10:48 AM	Originally posted by trapspringer Free use of item familiar feat from UA! Now that might just work... Most of the ideas that people propose for replacing the mount are horribly over powered.
SpartanMD 06-10-04, 04:53 PM	Some ideas I had....or that I got from this thread... http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=201775 1. extra fighter feats (at 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th and 20th...the wizard bonus feat progression) with access to Weapon Specialization/greater WS as one of the optional feats, but only with the dieties favored weapon. 2. Frenzy rage (the barbarian variant rage) giving +4 Str, +2 Dex and -2 to hit with extra attack... 3. Free Holy Might and Extra Turning Feats 4. Frenzy Sohei (OA) abilty 5. Ability to improve dieties weapon of choice with magic like the Kensai from CW or like the Samuri from OA. (as mentioned above) If these seem too powerful for the loss of a special mount, perhaps the Frenzy, and magic weapon would be only activated by losing a daily turning attempt.
trapspringer 06-10-04, 10:19 PM	CD has a paladin prestige class called something or another, the example character is hard-headed. Anyway, they get an animal campanion type dealy with the same progressions as a paladin mount. It would make a good sub.
Leewong 06-14-04, 08:16 AM	+2 CHA More defensive/utility value than special mount but no more powerful. imo
Thelon Fairblade 06-14-04, 08:26 AM	Expand the usefulness of the Remove Disease ability. Add the ability to remove blindness/deafness, remove paralysis, lesser restoration (maybe not), and break enchantment (high level).
paintedmask2 06-14-04, 12:38 PM	Originally posted by Thelon Fairblade Expand the usefulness of the Remove Disease ability. Add the ability to remove blindness/deafness, remove paralysis, lesser restoration (maybe not), and break enchantment (high level). That also sounds good. Remember, any new benefits should not appear until level 5, when he would have gotten the mount.
Slymonk 06-18-04, 06:57 AM	I've been messing with the idea of replacing the mount with a celestial templated animal companion At higher levels the paladin could perhaps even call on the services of an Archon
Blackswordsman 06-18-04, 09:01 AM	i always like the idea of a paladin with bardic music. Would it be broken to remove the special mount and remove disease, to give them teh bardic music. Perhaps at their level -4. Showing that their not as good a bards, kind of like how their turning isn't as good a clerics?
trapspringer 06-19-04, 11:21 PM	Sounds fun, but I'm not sure I'd give him all ten. I would stop at inspire competence. The rest is fairly un-paladin-y
Ertai Planeswalker 06-22-04, 07:23 AM	I'd replace it with the following ability, gained at 5th level and usable once per day, and one additional time per day at 10th, 5th, and 20th. The Paladin can use Summon Monster X, to summon a creature of good alignment to aid him. X is equal to half the Paladin's class level. So a 5th level Paladin calls a good creature as if using Summon Monster II, whereas a 18th level Paladin calls a good creature as if using Summon Monster IX. Any other aspects of this ability work just like the spell, and the Paladin's class level is his casterlevel for determining range and duration etc.
The WarOverlord 06-25-04, 05:44 AM	Originally posted by Templar_Prime There are alternatives to most class abilities in UA, but oddly enough animal companions and special mounts went all but untouched. I've never liked the mount in the first place, as my idea of a paladin has nothing to do with a special horse or whatever. A couple ideas I had for alternitives: -qualify for fighter-only feats -fast movement as monk or barbarian -improved spellcasting -additional immunities -a 'fighting style' bonus as introduced by Guardians of Order in their Slayers D20 game (basically, a +1 bonus that can be applied at certain levels to AC, attacks, or damage, but only with a particular style such as two-weapon, sword and shield, single weapon, etc) I doubt any one of these would replace the power and utility of a mount (except perhaps the Style idea). I'm open to suggestions. 1) Having the ability to Summon a Mount to the Terrain. I.E,. in the Underdark the Mount summoned would be a giant Wolf or Lizard, in a lake or ocean the mount would be a giant turtle or giant sea horse 2) Having a Animated/ techo Mount (Golem or robotic) that can adjust for the situations (fly,float, "crawl low") 3) Have a familiar of regular size that can turn into a mount when needed ( He man's cat turning into "battle Cat" :rolleyes: ) The reason why all my ideas has to do with keeping the mount is 1) Mounts can fight independent of the rider....especially if we are talking about Griffons, TIgers, or Sharks as Mounts 2) Even on Horseback a well trained Mount can a) Back kick on command b) Stomp on command c) JHorse can duck, jump, and crawl in different environments And if you must have a horse. a Minature Horse can get into tight spaces :D
JDeMobray 06-25-04, 02:00 PM	These are all great suggestions and I'm going to be showing this thread to my DM. I recognize the power of Animal Companions and Special Mounts but it just so rarely fits in with my character concepts.
SpartanMD 07-13-04, 10:26 AM	Got a suggestion from another BB.... The Generic character section allows Bonus feat to be substituted for Familiar. But I would argue that a Mount is more powerful than a familiar. A familiar is 1/2 a HD at most, and a 2HD (a warhorse) creature would qualify for Improved Familiar feat. And there is a Feat for a celestial familiar. So for forgoing a Mount, a Paladin should get two bonus Feats at 5th level. I would probably limit them to Holy Feats or Arcane Relic Feat from BoED. Thoughts?
DM Zoc 07-13-04, 04:56 PM	Two feats is a more powerful ability than the mount ever was. To replace the mount, you need something equally worthless (I think there already exists a variant where you get an animal companion instead).
SpartanMD 07-17-04, 10:54 AM	Originally posted by DM Zoc Two feats is a more powerful ability than the mount ever was. To replace the mount, you need something equally worthless (I think there already exists a variant where you get an animal companion instead). A mount is worthless? I wouldn't quite go that far. First there is all of the synergy you get when using a lance and charging on the mount. Also you get +1 to hit other size medium opponents on foot, right? Personally, I like the idea stated above about getting a free ancesteral relic (BoED) feat and a "fighting style" instead of the mount. Perhaps just an extra +1 with the dieties favored weapon?
SpartanMD 07-22-04, 12:57 PM	Hey, What do you guys think about this idea.... Substitute Divine Favor for the Mount. It would be active the same amount of time that a paladin could call a mount.
GypsyComet 08-03-04, 01:46 AM	The just-released "Iron Kingdoms Character Guide" (Privateer Press) has mountless rules for its Dwarven Paladins. It swaps out Ride from the class skill list, and replaces the mount with several bonus feats and an accelerated Smite progression.