Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DM-Scott 01-25-08, 10:48 PM	I'd just like to see what others thought of these house rules & custom content. We've been slowing modifying our regular game over a period of time. This is what we use at the moment. Core Modifications 1: Players can freely multi-class without XP penalties. 2: Cross class skills cost 1 point instead of 2, but the max ranks remains the same. This is to give a greater variety of skills to classes, and more options, while allowing for major and minor specializations. 3: Certain skills are rolled over into singular skill versions. Climb, Jump, and Swim are rolled into "Athletics", while Hide and Move Silently become "Stealth", Listen and Spot become "Perception". Anything that adds a bonus or penalty to one of the athletic skills functions for that particular application of the skill. Anything that grants a bonus or penalty to Hide/Move Silently/Spot/Listen adds half of the value to it. This is for conversion simplifications, as you can use standard items, racial abilities, and feats without any hassel (so boots of elvenkind and cloaks of elvenkind both grant half their bonus to stealth). If a race gets +4 to move silently, instead they get +2 to stealth checks. This rule is both to give characters more effective skill points (Athletics saves a fighter 2 skills worth of points to do physical things, while stealth and perception save 1 skill each), as well as cutting down on rolling and odd situations involving drastically different modifiers and roll results. Speeds up gameplay and works well. Race Modifications Some races have had their level adjustment changed or removed. As of writing this, two races have been "standardized" in our games. List to be expanded. Hobgoblin (MM 1) - Level adjustment removed as it has similar strengths as standard PHB races. Blues (XPH) - Level adjustment removed as it has similar strengths as other +0 level races. Feat Modifications Certain feats have been doctored up or modified. Some feats were added to adjust small problems we've felt popped up in our games. Spell Mastery - You can spontaneously cast spells you have learned through spell mastery with unprepared spell slots. Applying meta-magic feats increases casting time as per spontaneous casting. Weapon Specialization - Rolled over into 1 feat available for fighters (or warblades) which replaces the weapon focus to specialization line of feats. Instead, we have this feat. Weapon Mastery (General, Fighter) Through continuous training with a certain weapon, you unlock the hidden potential within. Prerequisite: Fighter level 1+ Benefit: You gain a bonus to attack and damage with the selected weapon based on your levels (or effective levels in the case of warblades) in Fighter. Level 1: +1 Attack Level 4: +1 Attack / +2 Damage Level 8: +2 Attack / +2 Damage Level 12: +2 Attack / +4 Damage Level 16: +3 Attack / +4 Damage Level 20: +3 Attack / +6 Damage Special: This feat may be taken multiple times. You must choose a different weapon each time. This feat does not stack with weapon focus or specialization (including improved versions of those feats). This feat may be used in place of weapon focus and weapon specialization for the purpose of qualifying for things (such as the prerequisites for other feats or prestige classes. And we're thinking of doing this perhaps. Class Modifications Certain classes have packages (not to be confused with starting packages) which are used to flesh out characters better. Currently our packages only affect skill points and class skills, and we only have packages for the Fighter class worked out, but other classes could benefit from them as well. Some sample packages follow. In most cases, packages are like add-ons which add add more skill points and class skills to a class that is found lacking. Noble Warrior: Skill Points: 4 + Int modifier. Add Diplomacy, Sense Motive, and Knowledge (History) to the Fighter's class skills. Mystic Knight: Skill Points: 4 + Int modifier. Add Knowledge (Arcana), (History), and (Religion) to the fighter's class skill list. ---- Any thoughts?
Dog_O_War 01-26-08, 12:16 PM	Any thoughts? Oh, the power...overwhelming! Seriously though, why more skill points? Why the specialization boost? Basically my questions are "why's" for the changes; just wondering what in you group dynamic sparked the need for these changes.
DM-Scott 01-26-08, 01:42 PM	Seriously though, why more skill points? I'm not sure which you mean here. My first reaction would be the skill packages. Currently, the skill packages are something we're "working on" and haven't added to our games yet. It's possible that we may leave them out, or not have them adjust the number of skill points per level. If you mean as a side-effect of the cross-class skill rule, and rolling climb/jump/swim, hide/move-silently and listen/spot over into 3 skills, that's because we wanted more freedom with said skills. Certain skills seemed a little redundant when put into play (hide / move silently / spot / listen) with a lot of extra dice rolling (not to say I dislike rollin' my dice :P ) and the potential for vastly different success rates leading to the same end result (either they noticed you or didn't generally). Plus, in our group, if anyone maxes one, they max the other because you need both to be a competent lookout or stealthy character. The "Athletics" skill was derived from the climb/jump/swim skills because we felt all the extra skill points dedicated to those skills (which appear on most warrior-based skill sets) was just a bit much. We wanted to trim it down so that making an athletic character didn't require so many skill points. Due to the cross-classing skill rules we have in place, it is actually fairly likely that we may not actually end up using the skill packages; but I wanted to see if anyone on the boards thought they would be worth it. In our games, it's not surprising to see a character with skills like this. -Class: Fighter -Role: Melee Warrior / High Knight -Skills: Athletics 4, Handle Animal 4, Diplomacy 2, Gather Info 2, Perception 2, Knowledge (Religion) 2. -Feats: Weapon Mastery (Longsword), Iron Will Why the specialization boost? I'm pretty sure you mean the weapon mastery feat here. Well truth be told we felt like rolling it over into a feat that the fighter could take multiple times (to specialize in multiple weapons), and didn't require him to dedicate a bunch of feats to, and made it scale with fighter level. At 1st-3rd fighter level, its effects are identical to weapon focus. At 4th, you get specialization so you may save 1 feat when multi-classing (common fighter multi-classing stops at 4th level anyway). So far it's worked for us very well. It hasn't really caused any balance issues (near impossible to at low levels) and it looks to be working pretty decent at higher levels as well (with both PCs and NPCs having the feat). -------------- Oh yeah, I forgot one I didn't post before. Shield increases. In our campaign bucklers give +1 AC, Small Shield +2, Large Shield +3, Tower Shield +4. The only difference from core here is the large shields which got kicked up to +3 AC. So far it too has been working out very well, and sword and board has become more appealing as well. Here's a sample character using these house rules, and since I have to go to work soon, without magical equipment (you can dress 'em up to your liking based on their level and wealth). Sir Thomas O'Niehalan Race: Human Level: Fighter 4 / Barbarian 1 Alignment: Neutral Good HD: 4d10+1d12 AC: 19 (+2 dex, +3 shield, +4 chain shirt) Feats: Weapon Mastery (Battle Axe), Combat Expertise, Iron Will, Improved Disarm, Extra Rage Skills: Athletics 8, Handle Animal 4, Intimidate 4, Diplomacy 4, Gather Info 4, Survival 6, Perception 4, Knowledge (Religion) 4 ==Combat Info== Longsword: Atk +9 (str +2, mwk +1, mastery +1), Damage 1d8+4 (+2 str, +2 mastery), critical 19-20/x2, Type - Slashing ==Armor== Chain Shirt: +4 AC, Spell Failure 20%, Check Penalty -2 Heavy Wood Shield: +3 AC, Spell Failure 15%, Check Penalty -2
Tequila_Sunrise 01-27-08, 11:58 PM	Nothing looks unbalanced or complicated, though not many of them I'd implement as a DM. I like that weapon mastery's benefits don't stop increasing at level 12; it always seemed like a big *duh* moment for the designers to just stop the weapon focus tree after 12th. I expand it with Superior WF and Superior WS, but weapon mastery works too. TS PS: Looks like Sir Thomas has one too many HD.
DM-Scott 01-28-08, 03:16 AM	Oh, he sure does. Must have been a typo. Fixed. See Edited Post. :D
Krusk 01-28-08, 11:29 AM	I like them. a few notes. first, I've been using that shield bump up myself for a bit now and I love it. People actually consider using small shields, and consider shields at all instead of two handed weapons. Second, I like most of what you have done, and have done similarish things myself. One question though, weapon master feat, do you guys have access to PHB2? If so, why didn't you give the benefits of the other further weapon focus feats. If this was for balance reasons, can you still select these other feats as bonus feats, and has anything been done to restore their now toned down power?
DM-Scott 01-28-08, 01:46 PM	One question though, weapon master feat, do you guys have access to PHB2? If so, why didn't you give the benefits of the other further weapon focus feats. If this was for balance reasons, can you still select these other feats as bonus feats, and has anything been done to restore their now toned down power? Well we have the PHB2 which we just got recently and to be honest I haven't really read through all of it yet. I've looked at some of the feats, but I can't think of any of them off the top of my head. Lemme go get it... *Walks off...* *Comes back with book* Ok. I guess you're meaning the feats that require weapon specialization such as Crushing Strike, Driving Attack, Slashing Flurry, and Weapon Supremacy, and so on and so forth. I should first start by mentioning that the weapon mastery feat is in fact a replacement for the standard weapon specialization line of feats (excluding Weapon Focus since anyone can take that), and is intended to substitute for the other feats if you are at the fighter level which grants you the equivalent bonus. Perhaps I should re-write the feat a bit to make this a bit more clearer than it is in the feat's description now. Basically it should work like this. Level 1-3 (Effective Weapon Focus) Level 4-7 (Effective Weapon Specialization) Level 8-11 (Effective Greater Weapon Focus) Level 12-15 (Effective Greater Weapon Specialization) Level 16-19 (Effective Grandmaster Weapon Focus*) Level 20 (Effective Grandmaster Weapon Specialization*) *: These don't actually exist to my knowledge as feats. This if you're A level 14 fighter with weapon mastery (longsword) you should effectively have weapon focus, weapon specialization, greater weapon focus, greater weapon specialization, and a BAB of +14. This would help qualify for Slashing Flurry. ================================ Another thing I forgot to mention before was an alteration to some spells and creatures. Animate Dead Looses the evil subtype, but grants the option to animate [Evil] versions of the skeletons and zombies who are a bit more powerful because of the dark evil energies within them. Detect *Alignment* Undead no longer radiate auras of evil based on undead type (so no lawful good ghost spirits registering as terribly evil). Instead see undead below. Undead Mindless undead aren't inherently evil. However, Fell Undead are a variation of standard skeletons and zombies, and are stronger than typical creatures of their kind and possess the [Evil] subtype. They are stronger because they have DR 5/Good and Smite Good. Alignment Mindless creatures are always "Neutral" but can have subtypes which effectively make them another alignment. Example: Lemure devils are mindless globs of evil. Their true alignment is "neutral". However they have the [Evil] subtype because they are naturally touched by evil. This effectively makes them register as evil for all purposes of skills and abilities (detect evil, smite evil, holy word, holy smite, and so forth).
Krusk 01-28-08, 04:14 PM	Thanks for the explanations of how it works. All in all i can't see a player getting too upset over playing with these rules. Most seem like fun changes that only add option, not arbitrary penalties.
DM-Scott 01-29-08, 11:30 AM	True that. I myself like options as a player, not limitations. That was one of my biggest problems with 2E when I tried playing it in someone else's game (the GM had anti-3E issues, and claimed Pun Pun was the "standard" for characters). I wanted to play a Human who was a multiclass fighter/wizard, because his mother had him trained as a wizard, but his father's dying wish was he become a capable swordsman like a "real man". So he decided to master the art of the sword and use his magic to back himself up, as something of an arcane duelist (wits over brawn). The DM pretty much went around and around about telling me all the stuff I couldn't do. Plus, the fighter was pigeon-holed into being a meat shield and couldn't actually do anything special (this is where I found out "grand mastery" and such was an add-on from a splat-book and not core AD&D 2E) or great. What does this story have to do with our house rules? I know that it's better to have options than limitations, more often than not. Most of our house rules are minor modifications to the system where I (or another member) noticed some stuff which either didn't jive just right, or could be cool but wasn't mechanically attractive (and I think I recall someone on the boards saying that to do certain things and it be worth a damn at higher levels, you had to throw your whole character, heart and soul, into it). Currently I'm running a game set in the forgotten realms. I'll give a brief bit of info on a few of the characters, and on their primary focuses, strategies, skill choices, and so on. Everecia Female Tiefling Wizard Generalist - Character Info: A young woman who learned the basics of magic from her mother before she passed away. Her heritage has been a constant source of trouble for her, and she finds a certain level of bigotry in most places that she roams. She travels around a lot looking for ways to fund researching spells, and to stay out of the way of "normal" people as much as possible. - Her role in the party is based on her very high intelligence modifier. She is currently level 3, and has 1 rank in several different knowledge skills (so she can at least try to answer questions the party may have), maxed concentration and spellcraft, as well as decipher script, and has cross classed a couple ranks in Stealth and Disguise (to remain inconspicuous to the general public). - In combat, she relies on save or die and control spells, as well as the occasional buff spell. So far her favorite spells have been Sleep, Color Spray, Charm Person, Invisibility and Summon Swarm. She will occasionally use Enlarge person (on the party's warriors) and some utility spells if she thought to prep them. Itriski - Male Kobold Sorcerer - Character Info: Small kobold sorcerer who is something of a modest rebel against the way his race acts. Having an unusual desire to see the world, especially the upper world, and lacking the sadistic and violent bent that most of his people have, he was kicked out of his home. Met up with Evarecia after nearly being eaten by a wild dog. Decided it would be wise to spend time with a surface dweller who didn't have the innate desire to kill him. - Itriski fills a strange role in the party. He generally ends up being the unofficial tight spaces explorer, and has ended up crawling through small spaces to open doors on multiple occasions. After nearly being killed by a wild dog, he was so impressed by the surface beast's prowess that he purchased some riding dogs and trains them to serve him (cross classed 3 points into Handle Animal). At 3rd level, he took it a step further and took the Animal Cohort feat (from the website) and now his his special puppy he rides on (bought the dog some chain-shirt barding too). - In combat Itriski fills a damage dealing role with his magic. Nothing escapes the damage from his constant barrage of magic missiles, and his fierce "attack dogs" are apt to defend and attack for him. He has trained them to hunt as well, so he makes use of them as excellent trackers if the party needs to find something. Unfortunately, when things aren't going well for Itriski, he often seems to end up acting as bait... His favorite spells are Magic Missile and Ray of Enfeeblement. Durin Male Human Wizard (Abjurer/Evoker) -Character Info: Durin was a county farmboy with a thirst for knowledge, and a rough and tumble way of life. He was keen on living off the land, and worked his family's farm. After a modest level wizard retired to the country, Durin helped him through the first winter of the wizard's stay there. He taught the wizard some stuff about living off the land, gathering firewood, and mundane skills. The wizard decided to teach him about the world, and so he asked his father to allow him to school the young lad. During his studies, the wizard decided he was so gifted, he must learn magic. So began Durin's initiation into the arcane arts. Durin now travels seeking new knowledge, and gold to buy new spells to scribe. His motives are similar to Evarecia's, and the two get along well. - Durin's role is that of a mundane fellow with a knack for the arcane. He's fairly street smart, and knows a good bit about living off the land, as well as pretty physically fit (cross-classed athletics, survival, and sense motive). He keeps a level head in most things, and offers a fun mixture of poetic intelligence, with a direct bluntness that gets to the point of matters. - In combat Durin's role often defaults to the protector and guardian of the party, and he favors spells such as Shield, Protection from Evil, and Magic Missile. He plans to focus on abjuration with evocation as a close second in specialization. He's not bad with a stout piece of hickory either (quarterstaff). --Note: Currently, he's testing a dual specialist variant he wanted to try. Essentially he's specializing in two different schools of magic by giving up more than usual. Abalin Male Hobgoblin Warblade -Character Info: Having grown disgusted with what he views as weakness within his clan, Abalin ventured out into the world to gain the power to start his own. He respects bravery and honor over petty moral issues. He's actually quite intelligent, but often pretends to be very dense and dumb, playing on stereotypes of goblin-kin being stupid. He uses this charade to seem less important in the group to outsiders, because he believes enemies are always watching, and he prefers to remain hidden within sight until danger reveals itself. - In combat Abalin wields a massive greatsword, and focus on total damage output - mixing a lesser appreciated stance (+1d6 damage, -2 AC) with clever tricks and maneuvers, and backup from his party, to form a deadly shock trooper. In previous adventures, he often opens up with a longbow and charges, drawing his greatsword, after Evarecia has disabled lesser foes with Sleep or Color Spray. With the threat of minions reduced (bad since he uses the -2 AC stance), he assaults the most dangerous opponent harshly until he either kills them or forces them into submission. Other Characters In addition to the ones above, a Female Human Barbarian and a Male Human Shugenja also are in the party. But their names escape me at the moment (it's very late or early depending on your views, and I'm sleepy). The shugenja focuses on healing and control spells like Obscuring Mist (cover against ranged fire), while the barbarian is an expert survivalist, athlete, rider, and working on sneaking more often (cross-class stealth). The barbarian functions as a striker. She makes use of her fast movement ability, and a recently acquired composite longbow to pick off specific enemies. She's been known to ambush orcs by climbing trees, hiding in them, and dropping down near key enemies (such as shamans) to take them out quickly. In a rage, she's quite frightening with her Masterwork Great-Axe. ===== So far the players have been loving the game. Tonight they discovered an old tomb hidden in the Lurkwood forest, while hunting down a grizzly bear of all things. Found the bear sleeping inside, offed the bear, explored the tomb. The party encountered some zombies, and made use of a bless weapon potion (oil) which allowed them to effectively fight the [Evil] zombies in the dungeon. They really liked this, as one of the players commented that he didn't think the potion would be worth much at such low levels (since it's usually only good against fiends, which are generally too much for 1st-3rd level parties). I'm currently planning on writing a prestige class for the kobold, since he has been spending a lot of his money on animals and took the animal cohort feat. Probably something of an arcane beastmaster type character, focusing on his animal companion and familiar. It should be fun. Anyway, peace out, game on. I'll be back in the morning. ^___^ Edit: Upon writing this, it was 5:13am when I finished this. I posted this later because the WotC boards were down for maintenance.
Sorn-Toril 02-01-08, 11:22 AM	Hello all. This is a player in DM-Scott's current campaign, and i have to say that I have fallen in love with these house rules. None that have been implemented have caused any problem in the campaign. I really enjoy them because these rules allow for less limitation without giving anyone an unbalanced advantage over anyone else. There are really no reason that I can see not to implement these into your campaigns. I know that really this has been gone over before but I thought that it might be helpful to here from a players point of view. Thanks for listening.