Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rhialto 09-04-06, 07:07 AM	I posted a one paragraph summary in another thread and got a positive comment, so I thought I might spell it out a bit more clearly. The basic rules applies to wizards. Adjustments to other classes will be noted later. Where intelligence (INT) is noted, always replace that with the appropriate characteristic for other classes. To reiterate: A character has a number of memory slots equal to (INT+LVL) spell levels. There is no need to place the same spell more than once there, as these are not erased by casting a spell. These can be deleted any any time by the caster by conscious will, and can be added to with 10 minutes of book study per spell level. Each day, there is a 50% chance that any given spell will be forgotten. This is why most wizards spend a bit of time in the mornings to refresh their memories. This will usually only become an issue if the wizard has lost his spellbook, or if he has memorised a particularly important spell from his main spellbook that isn't written in his travelling spellbooks. Severe head trauma or emotional shock can also dislodge a spell from memory. If for any reason INT or LVL is reduced, the DM should randomly remove memorised spells until the number of spell levels memorised is within the wizard's spell level memory capacity. Example 1: Roger the 1st level wizard has 12 INT. This, allows him to memorise up to 13 levels of spells (12 INT + 1 LVL). Being a complete novice, he only has 6 first level spells in his spellbook. He dumps them all in memory, with 7 spell levels worth of memory to spare. he can still only cast one 1st level spell a day, but he has complete flexibility from his memorised spells (ie his entire spellbook) Example 2: Brian the 5th level wizard has a gained a massive number of spells in his books. With his 14 INT, he can memorise up to 19 levels of spells (14+5). He picks lightning bolt, fly, invisibility sphere, mirror image, spider climb, web, charm person, magic missile, hold portal, identify. Even though he picked 3 different 3rd level spells, he can still only cast one of them this day, but he has a little flexibility. he doesn't have to just choose a single spell and hope it isn't wasted as a bad choice. let's face it, how many of you always picked fireball because you *knew* there'd be a fight sooner or later, but weren't sure about other situations? The number of spells per day is limited in teh same way it always has been, by the spells / day table appropriate to the character class. Roger can cast only a single spell a day, even though he has 6 different 1st level spells memorised. brian has 3/2/1 1st/2nd/3rd level spells available to cast each day, which can be chosen freely from his pool of pre-memorised spells. At any time, a wizard may cast a 1st level spell using a 2nd level spell slot (or any combination of low level spell using a higher level spell slot) from their spells / day . The only real reason to do is if they really need to cast that spell, and they have already used up all spells/day of teh appropriate level. You cannot combined 2 or more low level spell slots to cast an extra spell of a higher level. Example: Brian, with his 3/2/1 spell slots available, could if desired, burn them all up casting 6 identify spells. This might even be a good idea if the party has reached the final trasure horde and all monsters are defeated. nb: I didbn't take into account the bonus spells from high INT scores in the above examples. Roger could actually cast 2 1st level spells. Brian can actually cast 4/3/1 spells. ---- Specialist School wizards At least 1/2 of all their memory slots can be used only for spells from their speciality school. they choose 1 or 2 schools of magic as restricted schools; no school of magic is actually banned. A maximum of (LVL) spell levels of spells may be memorised from restricted schools, and any spell in such a school suffers a -5 penalty on spellcraft checks to learn that spell. Note that the overall total of spell levels is still the same as for regular wizards; there are just some special restrictions on how many spells of each school may be chosen. Elementalist These are a house rule specialisation. there are 4 types, corresponding to each of the 4 classical elements. Essentially, they treat spells of their element as a specialist wizard would, and spells of their opposing element as restricted schools as a specialist wizard would. Sorcerors Sorcerors essentially have an unlimited number of spell levels memorisable, and no risk of losing any by the methods noted in this article. However, this is compensated by the fact that they are unable to make use of spell books to study spells. A wizard will eventually have far more variety in available spells provided they have their books. A sorceror remains a potent threat even without their books. As presented in 3E, sorcerors are not affected by these rules. Clerics Substitute WIS for INT in all notes above, and substitute prayer time for book study when swapping out spells. Clerics choose 2 domains from those allowed by his deity. Halve of all spell levels slots are reserved for spells from these 2 domains. The other half may be freely chosen from any domain controlled by the cleric's deity. In my campaigns, every cleric must choose a specific patron. A hypothetical cleric with no patron would essentially be limited to just 2 domains only. Clerics no longer have the ability to lose a prepared spell to cast a cure (or its opposite) spell. however, most clerics with any sense will use some memory slots up with such spells. These rules effectively supercede the flexibility that replacing prepared spells with cures was designed to provide. Prayer time may be doubled (or more, or even impossible) outside of consecrated grounds. Druids Substitute WIS for INT in all notes above, and substitute prayer time for book study when swapping out spells. Prayer time may be doubled (or more, or even impossible) outside of consecrated grounds. Bards Substitute CHA for INT, and substitute strumming/rehearsal for book study when swapping out spells. Good bards will tend to carry around an instrument or two, plus lots of sheet music (ie spell books). yes, this is a bit of a change from bards as presented in the books. In my campaigns, bards have a culture of exchanging songs (spells). Most songs require an instrument to be cast correctly, some require a specific instrument. Sometimes different copies of the same spell may require different instruments. Those spells that don't require an instrument may require either singing or poetry recitation. overall, I treat bards as straight wizards with lots of chrome as far as spellcasting is concerned. Paladins I have banned these as straight paladins. I've experimented with introducing a templar class, essentially religious warriors devoted to a specific deity. The exact package is specific to each deity, but in general: - skills and feats are as appropriate for one of the alignment-specific variant paladins, depending on the deity's alignment. - code of conduct is adjusted to reflect the patron deity. - templars choose a single domain from those available to their deity. - The number of spell levels that can be memorised is halved. - Half of the spell level memory slots must be filled with the chosen domain. the other half may be freely chosen from any of that templar's deity. Rangers I never liked spellcasting rangers. Comments?
Tisner44 09-04-06, 05:33 PM	To reiterate: A character has a number of memory slots equal to (INT+LVL) spell levels. There is no need to place the same spell more than once there, as these are not erased by casting a spell. These can be deleted any any time by the caster by conscious will, and can be added to with 10 minutes of book study per spell level. This seems interesting, making them a little more like the Sorcerer. One question, how would you apply Metamagic feats? Each day, there is a 50% chance that any given spell will be forgotten. This is why most wizards spend a bit of time in the mornings to refresh their memories. This will usually only become an issue if the wizard has lost his spellbook, or if he has memorised a particularly important spell from his main spellbook that isn't written in his travelling spellbooks. How does this work in game, do they have to roll % on everyspell everyday? Severe head trauma or emotional shock can also dislodge a spell from memory. If for any reason INT or LVL is reduced, the DM should randomly remove memorised spells until the number of spell levels memorised is within the wizard's spell level memory capacity. This probably need a % too. At any time, a wizard may cast a 1st level spell using a 2nd level spell slot (or any combination of low level spell using a higher level spell slot) from their spells / day . The only real reason to do is if they really need to cast that spell, and they have already used up all spells/day of teh appropriate level. You cannot combined 2 or more low level spell slots to cast an extra spell of a higher level. Seems okay Specialist School wizards At least 1/2 of all their memory slots can be used only for spells from their speciality school. they choose 1 or 2 schools of magic as restricted schools; no school of magic is actually banned. A maximum of (LVL) spell levels of spells may be memorised from restricted schools, and any spell in such a school suffers a -5 penalty on spellcraft checks to learn that spell. Note that the overall total of spell levels is still the same as for regular wizards; there are just some special restrictions on how many spells of each school may be chosen. Half seems a little high,plus do they still get the bonus spell per level? I don't know if I like it without the banned schools. Elementalist These are a house rule specialisation. there are 4 types, corresponding to each of the 4 classical elements. Essentially, they treat spells of their element as a specialist wizard would, and spells of their opposing element as restricted schools as a specialist wizard would. Seems cool Sorcerors Sorcerors essentially have an unlimited number of spell levels memorisable, and no risk of losing any by the methods noted in this article. However, this is compensated by the fact that they are unable to make use of spell books to study spells. A wizard will eventually have far more variety in available spells provided they have their books. A sorceror remains a potent threat even without their books. As presented in 3E, sorcerors are not affected by these rules. By making Wizards more powerful, this actually takes away from the usefulness fo the Sorcerer. Should probably find a way to enhance them tool. Clerics Substitute WIS for INT in all notes above, and substitute prayer time for book study when swapping out spells. Clerics choose 2 domains from those allowed by his deity. Halve of all spell levels slots are reserved for spells from these 2 domains. The other half may be freely chosen from any domain controlled by the cleric's deity. In my campaigns, every cleric must choose a specific patron. A hypothetical cleric with no patron would essentially be limited to just 2 domains only. Half is very high considering the small amount of spells you get for domain spells. Maybe just them a few more spell levels to use for domain spells instead limiting the ones they already have. Clerics no longer have the ability to lose a prepared spell to cast a cure (or its opposite) spell. however, most clerics with any sense will use some memory slots up with such spells. These rules effectively supercede the flexibility that replacing prepared spells with cures was designed to provide. This seems okay, since they have quite a few spell options. Prayer time may be doubled (or more, or even impossible) outside of consecrated grounds. This should be reversed, it should take less time on consecrated grounds and the standard time anywhere else. Druids Substitute WIS for INT in all notes above, and substitute prayer time for book study when swapping out spells. Prayer time may be doubled (or more, or even impossible) outside of consecrated grounds. Druids should have it reduced in natural enviroments, since consecrated means less to them than regular clerics. Bards Substitute CHA for INT, and substitute strumming/rehearsal for book study when swapping out spells. Good bards will tend to carry around an instrument or two, plus lots of sheet music (ie spell books). yes, this is a bit of a change from bards as presented in the books. In my campaigns, bards have a culture of exchanging songs (spells). Most songs require an instrument to be cast correctly, some require a specific instrument. Sometimes different copies of the same spell may require different instruments. Those spells that don't require an instrument may require either singing or poetry recitation. overall, I treat bards as straight wizards with lots of chrome as far as spellcasting is concerned. I think this seems okay, but I like the bards how they are (just personal preference though.). Overall not a bad Idea, just want to watch how it will affect some feats.
Rhialto 09-04-06, 06:46 PM	- how would you apply Metamagic feats? - How does this (forgetting spells) work in game, do they have to roll % on everyspell everyday? In practice, as long as the wizard has their spellbooks with all currently memorised spells with them, there's no need to roll. I just assume they spend 5 minutes per memorised spell level refreshing their memory (the statistical average). If they want to swap out a spell that morning, count the new spell as 10 minutes per level and all the unchanged ones as 5 minutes per spell level. - How about head trauma? Anyting hard enough to knock a wizard unconscious, cause lasting sanity (Cthulhu-strength), or cause a brain-specific critical. will trigger this. Emotional shock is a judgement call, and although I have it in there, I've never needed to use it. I make a 50% roll for each memorised spell in these situations. - Specialist wizards seem to have a strong restriction on choosing only their own school's spells don't they? Yes, half of all their memory slots is quite high. On teh other hand, a 16 INT specialist could reach level 4 and still not be limited in any way by this rule, as 10 memory slots are still available for use with any non-restricted school, sufficient to cast his usual daily allotment. I guess it wouldn't hurt the flavour to reduce this to 1/3 of the memory slots reserved for the specialty school. - Hey! You nerfed sorcerors! Parting a wizard from his spellbooks is actually surprisingly easy. Sorcerors don't even need spell components. - Clerics don't get many spells in a domain! You got me there. I was thinking back to 2E (can you guess which version I'm still playing yet?), where domains corresponded approximately to wizard schools in size. Until I integrate this aspect fully, you can just assume clerics have no special restriction, like a generalist wizard. Or get your hands on 2E tome of magic. - How about that prayer time for clerics and druids? For druids, I regard "consecrated ground" as being specific groves and henges, not wilderness in general. I don't generally increase the prayer time for these two classes unless in a region directly inimical to the spheres of influence of the deity, such as a fire god in tundra, or a nature god in downtown Greyhawk. Most terrain, including consecrated ground, is at the standard 10 minutes per spell level. Within major temples, there may be an especially sacred holy of holies, in which prayer time required is reduced. This won't generally be available to the characters though. I make prayer impossible only on planes that are truly inaccessible to the deity in question. the cleric could still continue using his spells as long as they remain in his memory though. Being on such a plane effectively puts the cleric in the same situation as a regular wizard witghout his spellbooks. - How about them feats? A magic missile spell (for example) always takes up one memory slot to memorise. When it is cast, if cast normally, it requires a 1st level slot from the wizard's daily allowance. if enhanced with a metamagic feat, it requires a 2nd level spell slot from the daily allowance to be used up. Essentially, this removes the need to memorise separate ordinary and metamagic-enhanced versions of the same spell. This seems reasonable to me, as by the time the character starts getting into metamagic feats, the memory slots limit will already be cramping his spell selection a bit. The Spell Mastery feat effectively gives the chosen spell(s) as being in a spellbook hidden inside that caster's head.
Tisner44 09-04-06, 10:30 PM	A wizard has to apply a metamagic feat to a spell when they memorize it, while a sorcerer can use a metamagic feat on the fly. This is why wizards get bonus feats and sorcerers don't. Okay, what I meant about the metamagic feats is if they do have to have the Metamagic one memorized ahead of time or not? This is very important because that is what makes a sorcerer slightly more powerful with metamagic feats than a sorcerer. Also, although it is fairly easy to take a wizard's spellbook away, most DMs won't do that very often. The biggest difference you have made here is that you have created a sorcerer who can change their spells known on a daily basis:eek: They even get more spells known than the sorcerer the way you have it set up. This is very powerful and useful...if you do the class this way you may want just get rid of the sorcerer class and turn all natural spellcasters (born with gift) into warlocks or something like that:weep: . I like the principle of it, but with the amount of spell levels you have calculated, they get a lot of spell levels at low level, but not nearly enough at high levels. At 1st level most wizards have at least a 16 int. this gives them 17 spell levels..way to many. At 20th level the wizard will have about a 26, this gives them 46 spell levels. This will only allow them to memorize 4 ninth level spells, one 8th level and a 1st level spell. This is very weak and not worth being a wizard.:( Compared to the current one, you would be able to cast the same amount of spells per day, but be more limited than you were before. If you transfer this to the current wizard...at 20th level they can memorize 4 spells of each level, that would be 180 points! This would not include zero level spells (which by the way you forgot explain how they work:D ). Sorry I don't mean to be mean. ;) You might want to look at the spell point variant in the UA, it might actually be what your looking for.
Rhialto 09-05-06, 04:09 AM	Hmm, bear in mind that this system was originally written when 2E was in vogue. Most of what you see is a rewrite to take into account 3E standards, hence the mix up with cleric domains, which appear to have changed radically. Sorcerors just don't really exist inanything like the form written in 3E in my campaigns anyway (just like vanilla alignment-base paladins and spellcasting rangers don't exist). Since I haven't actually played this variant spellcasting with 3E (only 2E), I'm not too ssure of the metamagic interactions. I guess it can't really hurt to require a metamagic-enchanced spell to require an extra memory slot, essentially forcing the decision for wizards at the moment of memorisation instant of the moment of casting as it is for sorcerors. It might be reasonable to create another metamagic feat (arcane mnemonics) to increase the number of memory slots availabelt o memorise spells with. This system intentionally gives more memory slots than low level casters can use, and deliberately forces tough choices on higher level casters. That is not an accident. One of the greatest complaints from 1E and 2E (and OD&D) was the underpowered low level mage and overpowered high level mage. The design plan was to give a useful amount of flexibility to low level casters, and transform high level casters so they aren't a one man army with a winning hand for every situation. A high level caster will still win easily in those situations he has specifically prepared for, but can no longer plan on having a useful spell for every conceivable situation, which tones down their power. As for that 20th level caster with 46 spell levels. yes, he won't have much choice about his 9th level spell slots. Most of the time if he is sensible he probably won't even fill his memory slots with such high level spells, instead using the high level spell slots to cast lower level spells more often in a given day. This rarity of high level spells also helps give the feel that a 9th level spell is truly an awesome spell, and not just another explosive round from your walking artillery piece. This system almost forces the high level wizard to end up using some of his high level spell sslots to cast lower level spells. I have seen many spell point systems. But all of them effectively encourage wizards to drop the low level spells from their active repertoire as soon as hard hitting higher level spells are available. I wanted a system which would encourage higher level wizards to carry on using the more mundane magics, but at the same time (assuming they min-max this system and concentrate memory slots on lower level spells) make them far more flexible than before.
Thelon Fairblade 09-05-06, 08:46 AM	Well, from that point of view, Sorcerers actually become the supreme power houses of spellcasting. Although they can't change their Spells Known, they will have a lot more of them available at mid and high levels than a Wizard, and they will always have all of their high-level spells available. They are supergimped until about 10th level, though, compared to the wizard. If you are going to give the Wizard spontaneous application of metmagic, you need to either allow the sorcerer the same freedom (no time increase), or restrict the Wizard the same way (casting time increase).
Rhialto 09-05-06, 08:59 AM	Life was so much simpler when there was only one magic user class :embarrass IO don't happen to have any use for the sorceror class (doesn't fit my campaign world). But it's there, and as long as it is, it has to be fit in somehow.
Thelon Fairblade 09-05-06, 12:13 PM	What about this mechanic... (remove Sorcerer) You know 1 spell per spell level. Additionally, you know 1 LEVEL worth of spells per point of your primary casting stat. So Wizard, 17 INT, level 5. He knows 3 spells (Magic Missile, Web, Fireball), and can pick 17 more spell levels of spells each day (fly, DM, Summon Monster III; shield, true strike, detect secret doors, Jump; scorching ray, alter self). Wizard, 26 INT, Level 20. He knows 9 spells (1 of each spell level), and 26 more spell levels. Of course, this thought process gives the wizard back his high level spells, which I guess was not what you wanted. you could be really obnoxious and turn things around ---- never mind, i was about to create a Spell Point system... What about setting things up like the Erudite (from Psionics)? Your entire spell book is available, but once you pick a spell (and allocate the spell levels), you're set for the day. So your 26 INT, Level 20 wizard with 46 spell levels doesn't have to say "today I will have 1 9th, 1 8th, 2 5th, 5 3rd, 4 1st". Instead he just has 46 levels and all his spells. Getting up in the morning, he feels lazy... Unseen Servant now occupies 1 spell level. He heads outside, and is ambushed by robbers... Fly, Protection from Arrows, Fireball and Magic Missile now occupy 9 more spell levels. And so on... by the time he gets to the end of the day, he has only 6 spell levels uncommitted -- not enough to cast anything higher than a 6th level spell, even though he has not yet used his 9th or 8th level slots...
TheDarkLord 09-05-06, 11:45 PM	What about setting things up like the Erudite (from Psionics)? Your entire spell book is available, but once you pick a spell (and allocate the spell levels), you're set for the day. I have seriously Thought about doing this. Do you know anyone who's tried it or any ideas on how to implement it.