My ideas to help make Charisma more effective [Archive] - Wizards Community

My ideas to help make Charisma more effective [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Enigmatica
03-01-05, 05:59 PM Ok folks, the lack of work to do at my place of employment allowed me to come up with this list:

These are class-based methods of making charisma a more effective stat So far, I only have ideas for PHB classes, also the Psion, which rocks my socks.

Barbarian - Sword of the Clan: The high-charisma barbarian is, or was a leader of the clan from which he originated. The Sword of the Clan is treated as the Ancestral Daisho (or Ancestral Relic). For every character other level, per point of charisma modifier, The Sword of the Clan gets a +1 bonus to attack, or ability which is the equivelant to a +1 weapon bonus.

Fighter - The high-charisma fighter is an amazing strategist, and excels in leading his force to victory. For each point of his charisma modifier, he may subtract that much of his base attack bonus and add that to the base attack bonus of all allies in a radius of 10 feet per charisma point spent this way, for a duration of 10 minutes per charisma point spent. (Very long. Somebody consense this for me, and I'll e-mail you an american nickle.)

Bard - The high-charisma bard excels at many things, but which is up to him. He may use an additional Bardic Music ability, once per day per point of charisma modifier. No Bardic Music ability may be used from this bonus in a single day.

Wizard - The high-charisma Wizard is almost royalty among his book-toting brethren. Due to his colleagues attempts of acknowledgement, he gains knowledge of their metamagic feats. For every point of charisma modifier, he gains one metamagic feat.

Monk - The high-charisma Monk is known throughout the lands for his strength of mind, increadibly quick reflexes, and trained body. He can boost the morale of his allies by subtracting a number of points from his base fortitude, reflex, and will save, up to his charisma modifier, to give his allies his sacrificed saves in the form of a morale bonus. This effect lasts for 10 minutes per point of charisma modifier.

Sorcerer - The high-charisma Sorcerer is an even more powerful, feared force. His powerful personality gives him access to even more spells. He learns an additional spell per caster level, per point of charisma modifier. So a sorcerer with caster level of 8 and charisma modifier of 4 will have an extra known spell of levels 1 through 4.

Druid - The high-charisma Druid is loved dearly by most all of natures wildlife, and is even more in tune with the world around him. He gains bonus spells based on his charisma score, as per the chart on page 8 of the Players Handbook.

Psion - The high-charisma Psion's charisma and mental prowess work with each other to become even stronger. His powers boost his force of being, and his force of being makes his mind even more powerful. He gains bonus power-points based on his charisma score, as per the chart on page 18 of the Expanded Psions Handbook.

Rogue - The high-charisma Rogue can bluff his way to victory. He may attempt a bluff attempt (DC 10 + his current hd) to reroll one failed roll, with a limite of one roll per point of charisma modifier per day. Failed attempts count towards this limit, and the Rogue must declare the use of this ability after the initial roll, but before it is declared by the DM as failed or successful.

Ranger - The high-charisma Ranger is a head-strong ally of the nature around him. He gains bonus spells based on his charisma score, as per the chart on page 8 of the Players Handbook.

Paladin - The high-charisma Paladin is a beacon of hope for his allies. For each point of his charisma modifier, he may subtract that much of his base attack bonus and add that to the base saves of all allies in a radius of 10 feet per charisma point spent this way, for a duration of 10 minutes per charisma point spent.

Cleric - The high-charisma Cleric is a strong spiritual ally of the God he serves. He gains bonus spells based on his charisma score, as per the chart on page 8 of the Players Handbook.

So, give your input and I'll see to it that (your favorite band) plays at your next birthday party!*

*is a lie
Shadowbane
03-01-05, 06:37 PM Interesting. This is alot better than how charisma is used now. It is pretty much a wasted stat for everyone but Paladins and sorcerers and clerics can use it although only slightly.

Why allow charisma to garner much lower prices from traders, and or charisma allows druids and rangers to have more powerful animal companions?
The ability to lead stronger animals seems charismatic. Allow wizards and sorcerers to have stronger familiars based on thier charisma mod

Just a few ideas, but one thing is certain charisma stinks as is!
evangelion1010
03-01-05, 09:03 PM while many of those aren't bad solutions to charisma, I personally would feel happier with a univeral fix to it, rather than a class by class basis - especially since you have no idea how to deal with multiclassing.

I considered feats for a while, which would allow characters with higher charisma to be better at certain things, but you need to make the feats....
A) Good enough to justify putting that 14 in str rather than dex.
B) Not so overpowered that every sorcerer and pally takes it, and it unbalances the game.

This means that charisma should have some affect on the character sheet, regardless of class chosen. Possible solutions...
A) 1/2 charisma modifier to saves, stackable with divine grace.
B) 1/2 Charisma modifier to will saves and fort saves (strong personality, refusing to surrender)
C) Treat charisma mod worth of charisma skills as class skills. You gain your charisma modifier worth of skill points, spendable only in those skills, per level (or two levels)
D) 1.5-2 times charisma modifier to charisma skills.

I think i like the saves the best, as it isn't a required stat for most classes, but it certainly helps, and it makes the fighter think twice about making it a dump stat. I think the most balanced would be the 1/2 to will and fort saves, allowing it to be a little more powerful than wisdom, depending on how you judge the cha skills vs wis skills.

The skill points... well, i think it tends to simply push it to more extremes. The fighter and barb are the most anti-social characters ever, and the bard, pally and sorc are super diplomats/liars.
HailSpork
03-01-05, 09:47 PM I think this is a much better start than some of the other threads, but the individual abilities need a little balancing.
First of all, sorcerers, paladins, and bards don't need nearly as much enticing to get a high charisma. Also, under the bard ability, the way you list it, they LOSE bardic music ;)

Barbarian: So an 18 charisma barb gets +4 to hit every other level? Charisma has now surpassed strength in importance (particularly if he power attacks with a two-handed weapon...)
I suggest giving him a war-cry ability. Can't remember what book that's from, but I'm pretty sure there are some rules for it. The ability does -something- with a dc of 10+half barb level+cha mod.

Bard: Needs very little encouragement. Bonus bard music per point of charisma to a max of bard level sounds fair. This way, it won't do more than double the bard music.

Cleric: They don't need too much enticement. Bonus spells as per chart sounds fair.

Druid: Again, bonus spells sounds fair. Perhaps also something involving advancement of animal companions?

Fighter: I think you want: Choose a number no higher than your charisma bonus or your BAB. You take a penalty to hit and charisma equal to this number, and all allies within 10*number feet get +number to hit. This does not remove your extra attacks from high BAB nor grant more attacks for high BAB to others.
It's a little complicated, but nothing really springs to mind that would be better. (well, and make sense anyway).

Monk: Same as fighter.

Paladin: Needs no encouragement. Perhaps give him the same ability as fighters.

Ranger: See druid.

Rogue: The bluff thing is more a function of skill rather than ability score. To get a reroll, I suggest a charisma check DC 10. (15 *if* you allow the reroll after results are known)

Sorcerer: Needs no encouragement.

Wizard: I've been toying around with giving the wizard's familiar (NOT the sorcerer's) casting abilities as per a sorcerer of 1/2 wizard level. Under this system, you could have the familiar use the wizard's cha. (That's an 8th level wizard before you get your familiar 2nd level spells...)
I say not for a sorcerer's familiar because it's just too redundant (that and I don't care for the sorcerer build; it's too much of a rip-off of mages, with mild changes. I use warmages instead)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Enigmatica 03-01-05, 05:59 PM	Ok folks, the lack of work to do at my place of employment allowed me to come up with this list: These are class-based methods of making charisma a more effective stat So far, I only have ideas for PHB classes, also the Psion, which rocks my socks. Barbarian - Sword of the Clan: The high-charisma barbarian is, or was a leader of the clan from which he originated. The Sword of the Clan is treated as the Ancestral Daisho (or Ancestral Relic). For every character other level, per point of charisma modifier, The Sword of the Clan gets a +1 bonus to attack, or ability which is the equivelant to a +1 weapon bonus. Fighter - The high-charisma fighter is an amazing strategist, and excels in leading his force to victory. For each point of his charisma modifier, he may subtract that much of his base attack bonus and add that to the base attack bonus of all allies in a radius of 10 feet per charisma point spent this way, for a duration of 10 minutes per charisma point spent. (Very long. Somebody consense this for me, and I'll e-mail you an american nickle.) Bard - The high-charisma bard excels at many things, but which is up to him. He may use an additional Bardic Music ability, once per day per point of charisma modifier. No Bardic Music ability may be used from this bonus in a single day. Wizard - The high-charisma Wizard is almost royalty among his book-toting brethren. Due to his colleagues attempts of acknowledgement, he gains knowledge of their metamagic feats. For every point of charisma modifier, he gains one metamagic feat. Monk - The high-charisma Monk is known throughout the lands for his strength of mind, increadibly quick reflexes, and trained body. He can boost the morale of his allies by subtracting a number of points from his base fortitude, reflex, and will save, up to his charisma modifier, to give his allies his sacrificed saves in the form of a morale bonus. This effect lasts for 10 minutes per point of charisma modifier. Sorcerer - The high-charisma Sorcerer is an even more powerful, feared force. His powerful personality gives him access to even more spells. He learns an additional spell per caster level, per point of charisma modifier. So a sorcerer with caster level of 8 and charisma modifier of 4 will have an extra known spell of levels 1 through 4. Druid - The high-charisma Druid is loved dearly by most all of natures wildlife, and is even more in tune with the world around him. He gains bonus spells based on his charisma score, as per the chart on page 8 of the Players Handbook. Psion - The high-charisma Psion's charisma and mental prowess work with each other to become even stronger. His powers boost his force of being, and his force of being makes his mind even more powerful. He gains bonus power-points based on his charisma score, as per the chart on page 18 of the Expanded Psions Handbook. Rogue - The high-charisma Rogue can bluff his way to victory. He may attempt a bluff attempt (DC 10 + his current hd) to reroll one failed roll, with a limite of one roll per point of charisma modifier per day. Failed attempts count towards this limit, and the Rogue must declare the use of this ability after the initial roll, but before it is declared by the DM as failed or successful. Ranger - The high-charisma Ranger is a head-strong ally of the nature around him. He gains bonus spells based on his charisma score, as per the chart on page 8 of the Players Handbook. Paladin - The high-charisma Paladin is a beacon of hope for his allies. For each point of his charisma modifier, he may subtract that much of his base attack bonus and add that to the base saves of all allies in a radius of 10 feet per charisma point spent this way, for a duration of 10 minutes per charisma point spent. Cleric - The high-charisma Cleric is a strong spiritual ally of the God he serves. He gains bonus spells based on his charisma score, as per the chart on page 8 of the Players Handbook. So, give your input and I'll see to it that (your favorite band) plays at your next birthday party!* *is a lie
Shadowbane 03-01-05, 06:37 PM	Interesting. This is alot better than how charisma is used now. It is pretty much a wasted stat for everyone but Paladins and sorcerers and clerics can use it although only slightly. Why allow charisma to garner much lower prices from traders, and or charisma allows druids and rangers to have more powerful animal companions? The ability to lead stronger animals seems charismatic. Allow wizards and sorcerers to have stronger familiars based on thier charisma mod Just a few ideas, but one thing is certain charisma stinks as is!
evangelion1010 03-01-05, 09:03 PM	while many of those aren't bad solutions to charisma, I personally would feel happier with a univeral fix to it, rather than a class by class basis - especially since you have no idea how to deal with multiclassing. I considered feats for a while, which would allow characters with higher charisma to be better at certain things, but you need to make the feats.... A) Good enough to justify putting that 14 in str rather than dex. B) Not so overpowered that every sorcerer and pally takes it, and it unbalances the game. This means that charisma should have some affect on the character sheet, regardless of class chosen. Possible solutions... A) 1/2 charisma modifier to saves, stackable with divine grace. B) 1/2 Charisma modifier to will saves and fort saves (strong personality, refusing to surrender) C) Treat charisma mod worth of charisma skills as class skills. You gain your charisma modifier worth of skill points, spendable only in those skills, per level (or two levels) D) 1.5-2 times charisma modifier to charisma skills. I think i like the saves the best, as it isn't a required stat for most classes, but it certainly helps, and it makes the fighter think twice about making it a dump stat. I think the most balanced would be the 1/2 to will and fort saves, allowing it to be a little more powerful than wisdom, depending on how you judge the cha skills vs wis skills. The skill points... well, i think it tends to simply push it to more extremes. The fighter and barb are the most anti-social characters ever, and the bard, pally and sorc are super diplomats/liars.
HailSpork 03-01-05, 09:47 PM	I think this is a much better start than some of the other threads, but the individual abilities need a little balancing. First of all, sorcerers, paladins, and bards don't need nearly as much enticing to get a high charisma. Also, under the bard ability, the way you list it, they LOSE bardic music ;) Barbarian: So an 18 charisma barb gets +4 to hit every other level? Charisma has now surpassed strength in importance (particularly if he power attacks with a two-handed weapon...) I suggest giving him a war-cry ability. Can't remember what book that's from, but I'm pretty sure there are some rules for it. The ability does -something- with a dc of 10+half barb level+cha mod. Bard: Needs very little encouragement. Bonus bard music per point of charisma to a max of bard level sounds fair. This way, it won't do more than double the bard music. Cleric: They don't need too much enticement. Bonus spells as per chart sounds fair. Druid: Again, bonus spells sounds fair. Perhaps also something involving advancement of animal companions? Fighter: I think you want: Choose a number no higher than your charisma bonus or your BAB. You take a penalty to hit and charisma equal to this number, and all allies within 10number feet get +number to hit. This does not remove your extra attacks from high BAB nor grant more attacks for high BAB to others. It's a little complicated, but nothing really springs to mind that would be better. (well, and make sense anyway). Monk: Same as fighter. Paladin: Needs no encouragement. Perhaps give him the same ability as fighters. Ranger: See druid. Rogue: The bluff thing is more a function of skill rather than ability score. To get a reroll, I suggest a charisma check DC 10. (15 if* you allow the reroll after results are known) Sorcerer: Needs no encouragement. Wizard: I've been toying around with giving the wizard's familiar (NOT the sorcerer's) casting abilities as per a sorcerer of 1/2 wizard level. Under this system, you could have the familiar use the wizard's cha. (That's an 8th level wizard before you get your familiar 2nd level spells...) I say not for a sorcerer's familiar because it's just too redundant (that and I don't care for the sorcerer build; it's too much of a rip-off of mages, with mild changes. I use warmages instead)