Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hierarch Leviticus 10-10-05, 02:00 AM	One of the projects I've been working on for, well, a few years now, and have only started to really make rapid progress on since the release of True 20, was "My Perfect 20", a d20 system to be written in 60 pages or less, with no implied setting, and no magic or supernatural items included. I'm now about two-thirds done: Here's where I'm at right now. (http://members.shaw.ca/LeviK/Perfect20.pdf) Thoughts?
Elgonn 10-10-05, 03:05 AM	Why would you want to play so utterly streamlined? I'm curious. I read it. I don't think I can give an honest review when the system is so utterly alien. I don't have a basis to start from.
FlameLover 10-10-05, 03:14 AM	:bow: :clap: :ayyyy!: :mymy: :shocked: :OMG! Now that THAT's out of the way! Anyway, WOW. It's amazing so far but there are a few things i'd like to suggest/comment on: - I love how you have simplified alot of the game and the basics work great. I like how you leave it very much "free" of any particular time, place or setting. - It is very well laid out and put together (lacks a little colour though). Anyway might i ask how you made it? I'll be trying to make a PDF soon and i'm not sure how to go about it. Ok now with the praise over i can mention some things that trouble me: - Ok i'll tell you right off i don't like the health system. I like that it is simplified and how it's about resistance and not just massive numbers but it's a little *too* rigid i feel and doesn't seem very natural to me. I would go with a WP/VP system myself but if you really want this then it's obviously your call. I also don't get how Toughness fits into this system either :| - I feel the combat system, especially equipment, is overly simplified aswell. I realize you wanted it all d20 and no other complicated stuff but with this system the difference between weapons and armor seems negligable and just feels like a major step back from the way D&D handles it. I feel a much more advanced equipment system is in order, but again it's your call. - I'm not sure about this whole "Wealth score" thing. I'm assuming it's from d20 Modern and while an interesting way to handle things isn't how i'd do it for a "setting nuetral" system at all. I would just base the economy on the US dollar (ie. you'd have the equivelant of cents, 100 cents equals a dollar but with whatever name the setting/GM decides on). That or something else but at the moment it seems a really whack way to handle wealth. Now don't take this the wrong way, everything i didn't mention is top-notch but i feel that a certain level of complexity needs to be there in combat and wealth mainly. I just feel like it's going backwards instead of forwards from D&D3.5.
Hierarch Leviticus 10-10-05, 03:31 AM	It's still quite rough, obviously. Health is, yes, utterly cut-down. The idea behind Toughness is that it's a second number to beat. You roll to hit, and then to wound. You must equal or beat toughness to do one wound, and each full five points you beat it by is an added damage. The idea being that escalating resistance to damage is every bit as good as escalating health. Equipment and wealth, yes, are parsed way, way down as well. However, as it sees more work, equipment will get some the complexity back. I just needed to cut right down to the bone before building up again. Wealth is from modern, yes. In many ways, this is my attempt at building the "lightest" d20 engine that I can. Then, as desired, it can be beefed back up with standard or alternative elements to taste. As for making it, I do my layout in Microsoft Publisher and then prit directly to PDF with a free program called PDF 995, which acts like a printer. I'll be updating this over the next few days, as I get closer to done, and I'll post here when I do. *Shrug* I may change a few things back towards "standard", but I'm not sure yet. And absolutely everything needs more balance testing.
FlameLover 10-10-05, 04:04 AM	The health system seems a little weird to me still. It's OK i guess but i think a WP/VP system with probably Reserve Points like thoughts from Iron Heroes would work best (it covers all types of settings and assumes you have NO magic whatsoever). Yeah i'm glad you plan on beefing up equipment. Since the game basically assumes you don't have magic your equipment becomes SUPER important and i think making it even a little more complex than D&D might be in order. Like having armor piercing ability, loads of mundane stuff like candles, etc. Although ofcourse that could all be covered in supplements having the framework there would help. Yeah i like how light it is and i realize what you're aiming for but i think a big problem is that you want only the d20: i wouldn't do that. Assume they have a d4, d6, d8, d10, d12 and d20. It seems like alot for a "light" system but it'll just force you to have complicated divisions and table and it saves alot of headaches just going say d4 instead of d20 divided by 5, round down etc. But just because you say d4 for example doesn't mean you need that type of die: just mention somewhere how with just a d6, d8 and d10 you can emulate neraly every other type of die. So you i love what you're doing with this just don't feel like it needs to be too simple. I know you plan on adding that later but it is easier if you add it in now i think otherwise you'll have to comb through old work and alter things that got changed, etc.
Verelor 10-10-05, 06:10 PM	:eek: This is great, I love what you've done here. Add a supplement called "Perfect Beasts" and "Perfect Arcana" and this is set to be the next GURPS.
Hierarch Leviticus 10-11-05, 12:21 PM	Perfect Arcana, Perfect Monsters, and Perfect Options (rules) are the three things I intend to work on after this is done - and then, I'll be looking for people wanting to write settings and alternate arcana systems, though, as with this system, there won't be any money in it. Just finished a round of work - basically, I've filled in the feats, and I'm starting in or rebuilding and reformatting the skills. Same link as the first post; if you get the old file, click refresh on the window. Again, thoughts?
Hierarch Leviticus 10-12-05, 11:03 PM	And, the first draft is now done. Still under the original link up in post one.
Verelor 10-13-05, 03:02 PM	Grreat progress. It already seems jsut about playable.
Hierarch Leviticus 10-13-05, 03:20 PM	It might be, now. Mostly, what it needs at this point falls into two categories: 1. Editing. Loads of editing, looking for anything missing, duplicated, unclear, or just written in a style that doesn't quite fit the rest of the document. 2. Playtesting. Loads and loads of it. I'll be running a game under this system starting next week. Once those parts are done, it will need expansion. Lots of little tiny supplements - Optional Rules, Magic Systems, and Genre Settings.
Verelor 10-13-05, 03:27 PM	Wel, game settings should be up to the DM mostly (though a conversion for Greyhawk and Fogotten Realms to Perfect20 would be nice.) I think after that creating a traditional fantasy magic system is the first order of business. I would probably do optional rules last of all. Simplicity and interconsistancy is key here, after all.
Hierarch Leviticus 10-13-05, 03:59 PM	The idea is going to be to write "briefs" - about 8 pages each - and have other join me in writing them, so that we can put together a significant number of them relatively quickly. I'm trying to make a list of what I think would be best... Right now, my list of "what I want" looks something like this: Settings Titles will have "perfect" separated out, in small lettering. They'll focus on technology, tone, and the period and places that were key in it's existence. Stone (Yep, the stone ages) Steel (General medieval-era tech) Shogun (Japanese medieval) Lace (Swashbuckling times) Steam (late 1800s) Modern Apocalypse Future (Space!) Decadence (Fallen futures, where humanity is sliding into a new dark age). Arcana Titles will have "perfect" separated out, in small lettering. Alchemy (With crazy explosive chemical, longevity potions, and turning lead into gold) Herbalism (Fairly druid-ish, natural herbs, balms, and powders) Chi (Kung-Fu action powers, acupuncture, the whole nine years) Hermetica (A relatively "standard" set of fantasy magic). Faith (Divine holy-roller stuff - faith healing, miracles) ...And that list will probably get a bit bigger, still.
Verelor 10-13-05, 06:39 PM	That list almost seems a little too ambitious. Don't work yourself to an early death here. If you can write up for high fantasy, modern, and future settings and fantasy and alchemy arcana, most of this other stuff falls into place. That's your primary objectives after you polish to gemworth your main guide. I don't see why both steam and modern,as well as both Apocolypse and Decadance cannot be combined into one.
Hierarch Leviticus 10-13-05, 06:46 PM	My list isn't all that ambitious if you've been writing little game fiddles for the last fourteen-odd years, and have most of them stored on your hard drive waiting to be grabbed, rewritten, set to these rules instead of the half-dozen sets they're on right now, and formatted. Which is a pretty fair summary of the contents of my hard drive. I've written a lot of stuff - so, as I polish the system, I'll be restructuring much of it. :D
Verelor 10-14-05, 04:04 PM	Here's a sample character build step-by-step that I took the liberty of constructing. Feel free to use it in one or any of your guides how you feel. EXAMPLE CHARACTER STEP-BY-STEP: RUNAS THE DWARF Step 1-Concept: A young yet cunning and good-hearted dwarven ranger (also called a Caver by his hill dwarves brethren). He is somewhat lighter and more surefooted than most other dwarves, and his knowledge of cavern systems, subterranean dungeons, and the fell beasts that reside in them is awesome, as is his combat ability. He prefers dwarven armor that offers a good compromise between protection and mobility, and wields two light battle hammers and a crossbow. Step 2-Ability Scores: Strength 2, Dexterity 1 (-1 from race), Constitution 1 (+1 from race), Intelligence 1, Wisdom 1, Charisma 0 This dwarven caver shares the top physical strength and constitution that comes as natural to his race. He is also a notch more surefooted and agile than most dwarves, which is definitely an asset if you are a subterranean ranger. He is well-learned about many things, but prefers to focus the majority of his knowledge on his profession. He is quite wise and down-to-earth , and is determined and alert in all that he does, which is very important for being a ranger. In the charisma department, he is above the gruffness of most of the other members of his race, but still prefers to keep to himself and not stand out too much most of the time. Step 3-Origin Traits: Broad-Shouldered (Dwarven Standard) Kinship-Dwarves (Dwarven Standard) Nightsight (Dwarven Standard) Step 4-Advancement Traits: Attack Bonus 2; He is extremely well-trained in landing deathblows to combat adversaries. Defense Bonus 1; He is more than competent when it comes to parry work in combat. Toughness 1; He is sturdy and tough, as a dwarf should be. Fortitude Save 1; His health and vitality is quite adequate. Reflex Save 1; Being a ranger, he is gifted with reflexes that are above the norm. Will Save 0; He has never been particularly strong-willed. Reputation 0; His reputation is not nearly as strong as his combat ability, but at least this may help to mask his infamy. Proficiencies 2; He is extremely well-versed, talented, and has great prowess in combat. Feats 1; He has been noted to posses a variety of impressive special abilities. Step 5-Other Traits and Health: Wealth: 2 Initiative: 1d20+1 Speed: 20 (25ft. +5-10) Health: He has not taken any injury Encumbrance: Medium (16, 1 step lower, -2 check penalty, -10 ft. speed) Step 6-Proficiencies and Feats 7 ½ points (7) to spend (0)Automatic Language: Dwarven (1)Additional Language: Draconic (1)Skill Ranks: Awareness (1)Skill Ranks: Education (Dungeons and Caverns) (2)Skill Ranks: Survival (1)Item Proficiency: Light Warhammer (1)Item Proficiency: Basic Armor Feats: Track Guide Martial Training (Hide Armor, Leather Armor, Chain Swathing) Step 7-Equipment: Basic Armor Light Warhammer x2 (Value 2 each, Bulk 2 Each, Damage +4 each, Display Struggle) Light Crossbow (Value 2, Bulk 2, Damage +2, Range 60 ft., requires reload 1 move action) Basic Clothing Lifestyle Basic Basic Toolkit (Survival and Tracking) Basic Toolkit (Heal) Basic Food-1 Week (Value 2, Bulk 3, Display Struggle) Basic Utensils (Value 2, Bulk 2, Display Struggle) TOTAL BULK: 16 Step 8-Final Touches: Looks: He is slightly taller than most of his dwarven kin, standing at 4’4, but about as heavy, at 195 pounds. He has a fairly lengthy brown beard that is unbraided, and colored deep brown. He prefers to wear basic, brown and gray clothing that doesn‘t make too great of any sort of statement, an intelligent choice for a ranger. His skin is a middle brown. Name: His name is Runas Ironbreaker Style: He can be seen wearing dwarven armor that offers a good compromise between protection and mobility, and wields two light battle hammers and a crossbow. He wears a small, light black cape. History: Runas is a dwarf from the Ironbreaker clan, a clan that is somewhat distant from other families but luckily is spared from a great deal of savage invasion. His birth city, and the city of his clan, is Gusra’s Furnace. It is not as if he was born for the caver path, but Runas had seen enough troll and kobold invasions in his childhood to see the value of that path, especially with his own impressive physique and learning potential. Adapting a unique two-hammer style and applying his firm dedication, he developed into a fine dwarven caver, a caste nearly as respected among dwarves as that of a Dwarven Defender. His allegiance to the elder of his clan, Ivor, is stone-firm. FINISHED CHARACTER: Character Name: Runas Creator Name: Verelor Level: 1 Strength 2 Dexterity 1 Constitution 1 Intelligence 1 Wisdom 1 Charisma 0 Notes and Description: A young yet cunning and good-hearted dwarven ranger (also called a Caver by his hill dwarves brethren). He is somewhat lighter and more surefooted than most other dwarves, and his knowledge of cavern systems, subterranean dungeons, and the fell beasts that reside in them is awesome, as is his combat ability. He prefers dwarven armor that offers a good compromise between protection and mobility, and wields two light battle hammers and a crossbow. Looks: He is slightly taller than most of his dwarven kin, standing at 4’4, but about as heavy, at 195 pounds. He has a fairly lengthy brown beard that is unbraided, and colored deep brown. He prefers to wear basic, brown and gray clothing that doesn‘t make too great of any sort of statement, an intelligent choice for a ranger. He wears a small, light black cape. His skin is a middle brown. His name is Runas Ironbreaker. Runas is a dwarf from the Ironbreaker clan, a clan that is somewhat distant from other families but luckily is spared from a great deal of savage invasion. His birth city, and the city of his clan, is Gusra’s Furnace. It is not as if he was born for the caver path, but Runas had seen enough troll and kobold invasions in his childhood to see the value of that path, especially with his own impressive physique and learning potential. Adapting a unique two-hammer style and applying his firm dedication, he developed into a fine dwarven caver, a caste nearly as respected among dwarves as that of a Dwarven Defender. His allegiance to the elder of his clan, Ivor, is stone-firm. Melee Attack: 1d20+0/-2 (Encumbrance) Melee Damage: 1d20+6 each Ranged Attack: 1d20-2 (Not proficient)(Encumbrance) Ranged Damage: 1d20+2 Fortitude Save: 1d20+2 Reflex Save: 1d20+2 Will Save: 1d20+1 Reputation: 1d20+1 Defense: 12 Toughness: 8 Origin Traits: Broad-Shouldered (Dwarven Standard) Kinship-Dwarves (Dwarven Standard) Nightsight (Dwarven Standard) Feats: Track Guide Martial Training (Hide Armor, Leather Armor, Chain Swathing) Proficiencies and Languages: (0)Automatic Language: Dwarven (1)Additional Language: Draconic (1)Skill Ranks: Awareness (1)Skill Ranks: Education (Dungeons and Caverns) (2)Skill Ranks: Survival (1)Item Proficiency: Light Warhammer (1)Item Proficiency: Basic Armor Languages: Common, Dwarven, Draconic Unspent Feats: 0 Unspent Proficiencies: 0 Trained Skills Rank: ? Specialty Skills Rank: ? Equipment: Basic Armor Light Warhammer x2 (Value 2 each, Bulk 2 Each, Damage +4 each, Display Struggle) Light Crossbow (Value 2, Bulk 2, Damage +2, Range 30 ft., reload time 1 move action) Basic Clothing Lifestyle Basic Basic Toolkit (Survival and Tracking) Basic Toolkit (Heal) Basic Food-1 Week (Value 2, Bulk 3, Display Struggle) Basic Utensils (Value 2, Bulk 2, Display Struggle) TOTAL BULK: 16 Current Wealth: 2 Skills: *Athletics: -1 Awareness: 2 Beastkeeping: 0 Commerce: 1 Crafts: 1 Crafts: 1 Crafts: 1 Deceit: 0 Diplomacy: 0 Education (Dungeons & Caverns): 2 Education: 1 Education: 1 Education: 1 Education: 1 Heal: 1 *Legerdemain: -1 Perform: 0 Perform: 0 Perform: 0 *Ride & Pilot: -1 *Stealth: -1 Survival: 3 *Tumble: -1 * Means skill takes an encumbrance penalty (-2 at this time, automatically figured) Health: No Wounds Advancement Path: Attack Bonus 2 Defense Bonus 1 Toughness 1 Fortitude Save 1 Reflex Save 1 Will Save 0 Reputation 0 Proficiencies 2 Feats 1
Verelor 10-14-05, 04:27 PM	Next I'm working on a COMPLETE set of medeival-fantasy weapons and armor, which should be finsiehd and ready for your sue within the day. After that, I'll be designing a set of class templates for use in a fantasy campaign (basically, a recommended set of advancement traits and feats one will want to take if they wish to emulate a certain fantasy class). I have taken great interest in your d20 system, and wish to continue to do a little co-creation.
Hierarch Leviticus 10-14-05, 04:42 PM	Awesome! I'm very much down with that - and the sample there looks good. Also, if you're willing to put up with me interfering and editing, etc, I can happily format your stuff, so that it looks and acts like one cohesive piece.
DigitalMage 10-14-05, 04:45 PM	I had a quick scan of your work - pretty impressive. Have you seen Castles and Crusades? That is supposed to be a very trimmed down D20 as well (but maybe too trimmed for you). Anyway, it is always great to create your own system - anything published by others usually falls short in some areas, with your own you can make everything just to your liking (though maybe not to others' liking :) ). I know I am quite happy with my LowDie system (http://www.geocities.com/lowdiesystem/), especially LowDie Light (http://www.geocities.com/lowdiesystem/downloads/lowdielight1.0.pdf) which got a pretty much complete game system into a 32 page PDF (one page of which was just the OGL!). Anyway, I wish you well in your efforts!
Verelor 10-14-05, 04:56 PM	Here's Your armor: PERFECT d20 FANTASY WEAPONS AND ARMOR LISTING Basic (Value 2, Bulk 2, Toughness +1, Defense +1, Max Dex +1, Display Struggle) Hides (Value 4, Bulk 3, Toughness +2, Defense +1, Max Dex +1, Display Struggle) Leathers (Value 5, Bulk 1, Toughness +1, Defense +1, Max Dex +3, Display Middle) Studded Leather (Value 7, Bulk 2, Toughness +, Defense +2, Max Dex +2, Display Middle) Chain Shirt (Value 8, Bulk 4, Toughness +3, Defense +2, Max Dex +2, Display Middle) Chain Swathing (Value 9, Bulk 5, Toughness +4, Defense +2, Max Dex +3, Display Middle) Scalemail (Value 14, Bulk 7, Toughness +3, Defense +4, Max Dex +5, Display Affluent) Breastplate (Value 15, Bulk 9, Toughness +4, Defense +4, Max Dex +3, Display Affluent) Platemail (Value 18, Bulk 10, Toughness +5, Defense +5, Max Dex +1, Display Wealthy) Kingly (Value 29, Bulk 5, Toughness +5, Defense +5, Max Dex +3, Display Rich) I'm not exactly sure that I didn't make some kind of mistake in the balancing process, so just scan it over once. Weapons coming right up!
Verelor 10-14-05, 05:01 PM	Lowdie is great, I love it too. This is more or less the same type of thing but within the more familiar d20 system. Take this little snippet first, I've just now typed it up: PERFECT d20 FANTASY WEAPONS AND ARMOR LISTING Masterwork Feature: A weapon that is masterwork is expertly crafted and has an additional +1 bonus on attack rolls with no additional bulk value. A weapon can only have the masterwork feature applied once, and the value of the weapon increases by +2.
Hierarch Leviticus 10-14-05, 06:00 PM	Masterwork Feature: A weapon that is masterwork is expertly crafted and has an additional +1 bonus on attack rolls with no additional bulk value. A weapon can only have the masterwork feature applied once, and the value of the weapon increases by +2. A good thought... And now, I'm wondering it we can't make it an armor/weapon feature, and have it price at +2 value for the first point of bonus, +3 additional value for the second, +4 for the third, and so on. That would give us: Bonus.......Total Value Increase +1............+2 +2............+5 +3............+9 +4............+14 +5............+20 Thoughts?
Verelor 10-14-05, 06:04 PM	I like it. For armor I'd have it reduce the bulk by one each.
Verelor 10-14-05, 09:34 PM	Here it is, the fantasy weapons and armor listing fully completed. As always, you are free to use and modify it as you wish: PERFECT d20 FANTASY WEAPONS AND ARMOR LISTING Masterwork Feature: Armor that is masterwork is expertly crafted and has 1 less bulk. A set of armor can only have the masterwork feature applied once, and the value of the armor increases by +2. Basic (Value 2, Bulk 2, Toughness +1, Defense +1, Max Dex +1, Display Struggle) Hides (Value 4, Bulk 3, Toughness +2, Defense +1, Max Dex +1, Display Struggle) Leathers (Value 5, Bulk 1, Toughness +1, Defense +1, Max Dex +3, Display Middle) Studded Leather (Value 7, Bulk 2, Toughness +, Defense +2, Max Dex +2, Display Middle) Chain Shirt (Value 8, Bulk 4, Toughness +3, Defense +2, Max Dex +2, Display Middle) Chain Swathing (Value 9, Bulk 5, Toughness +4, Defense +2, Max Dex +3, Display Middle) Scalemail (Value 14, Bulk 7, Toughness +3, Defense +4, Max Dex +5, Display Affluent) Breastplate (Value 15, Bulk 9, Toughness +4, Defense +4, Max Dex +3, Display Affluent) Platemail (Value 18, Bulk 10, Toughness +5, Defense +5, Max Dex +1, Display Wealthy) Kingly (Value 29, Bulk 5, Toughness +5, Defense +5, Max Dex +3, Display Rich) WEAPONS Masterwork Feature: A weapon that is masterwork is expertly crafted and has an additional +1 bonus on attack rolls with no additional bulk value. A weapon can only have the masterwork feature applied once, and the value of the weapon increases by +2. Unarmed (Value --, Bulk --, Damage -1, Display --, Special: If both hands are empty unarmed weapons count as paired) Club (Value 1, Bulk 3, Damage +4, Display Struggling) Sap (Value 1, Bulk 1, Damage +1, Display Struggling) Sling (Value 1, Bulk 1, Damage +0, Display Struggling, Special: Ranged 60 ft., requires reload 1 move action) Quarterstaff (Value 2, Bulk 4, Damage +4, Display Struggling, Special: Double) Javelin (Value 2, Bulk 3, Damage +4, Display Struggling, Special: Thrown) Dart/Shuriken (Value 2, Bulk 1/5, Damage +1 each, Display Struggling, Special: Thrown) Light Hammer (Value 2, Bulk 2, Damage +2, Display Struggling) Light Crossbow (Value 2, Bulk 2, Damage +2, Display Struggling, Special: Range 60 ft., requires reload 1 move action) Kama (Value 3, Bulk 1, Damage +3, Display Struggling) Nunchaku (Value 3, Bulk 3, Damage +4, Display Middle) Spear (Value 3, Bulk 4, Damage +6, Display Middle) Heavy Staff (Value 3, Bulk 6, Damage +6, Display Struggling, Special: Double) Shortbow (Value 4, Bulk 2, Damage +3, Display Struggling, Special: Ranged 60 ft.) Dirk/Dagger (Value 4, Bulk 1, Damage +4, Display Struggling) Greatclub (Value 4, Bulk 5, Damage +7, Display Struggling) Pick (Value 4, Bulk 3, Damage +6, Display Struggling) Light Mace (Value 4, Bulk 3, Damage +6, Display Middle) Longspear (Value 4, Bulk 6, Damage +8, Display Middle, Special: Reach +5 ft.) Sickle (Value 4, Bulk 2, Damage +5, Display Struggling) Hand Axe (Value 4, Bulk 2, Damage +4, Display Middle) Large Axe/Battleaxe (Value 5, Bulk 8, Damage +13, Display Middle) Heavy Mace/Morningstar (Value 5, Bulk 4, Damage +10, Display Middle) Short Sword (Value 5, Bulk 3, Damage +7, Display Middle) Throwing Axe (Value 5, Bulk 2, Damage +4, Display Middle, Special: Thrown) Warhammer (Value 6, Bulk 5, Damage +12, Display Middle) Halberd (Value 6, Bulk 7, Damage +12, Display Affluent) Glaive (Value 6, Bulk 7, Damage +10, Display Middle, Special: Reach +5 ft.) Lance (Value 6, Bulk 8, Damage +12, Display Affluent, Special: Reach +5 ft.) Greataxe (Value 7, Bulk 9, Damage +16, Display Middle) Broadsword/Longsword (Value 7, Bulk 4, Damage +10, Display Middle) Trident (Value 7, Bulk 6, Damage +8, Display Affluent, Special: Thrown) Scimitar/Cutlass (Value 7, Bulk 5, Damage +12, Display Middle) Scythe (Value 9, Bulk 11, Damage +22, Display Middle) Bastard Sword/Katana (Value 9, Bulk 8, Damage +19, Display Middle) Heavy Crossbow (Value 9, Bulk 5, Damage +10, Display Middle, Special: Range 120 ft., requires reload 1 move action) Longbow (Value 9, Bulk 3, Damage +7, Display Middle, Special: Ranged 90 ft.) Rapier (Value 12, Bulk 4, Damage +12, Display Affluent, Special: Finesse) Greatsword (Value 12, Bulk 10, Damage +21, Display Affluent) Steel-Razor Whip (Value 18, Bulk 5, Damage +10, Display Wealthy, Special: Double, Reach +10) Double-Axe (Value 18, Bulk 13, Damage +25, Display Wealthy, Special: Double) Expect the fantasy class templates done by tomorrow.
Verelor 10-15-05, 02:15 PM	Aren't you going to reply? Your profile says you've been active today. Here's a preview showing just two of the fantasy class templates. Tell me whether or not you enjoy the way I've done them. Barbarian: Ability Scores: Strength Most Important, Constitution Second Most Important, Intelligence Least Important Recommended Configuration For Advancement Traits: Attack Bonus: 1 Defense Bonus: 1 Toughness Bonus: 2 Fortitude Save: 2 Reflex Save: 1 Will Save: 0 Repute: 0 Proficiencies: 1 (Spend ¼ points on Athletics, Beastkeeping, or Survival skills, Other ¼ for feats and remaining ½ for weapon and armor proficiencies) Feats: 1 Recommended Feats Configuration: Defense, Warfare, and Wilderness feats tree Monk: Ability Scores: Dexterity Most Important, Wisdom Second Most Important, Charisma Least Important) Recommended Configuration For Advancement Traits: Attack Bonus: 2 Defense Bonus: 1 Toughness Bonus: 1 Fortitude Save: 1 Reflex Save: 1 Will Save: 1 Repute: 0 Proficiencies: 1 (Spend ½ points on Athletics, Awareness, Heal, Steal, Survival, or Tumble skills, and remaining ¼ for weapon proficiencies, other ¼ for languages) Feats: 1 Recommended Feats Configuration: Defense, Motion, Observation, Unarmed feats tree
Hierarch Leviticus 10-15-05, 04:30 PM	Aren't you going to reply? Your profile says you've been active today. Here's a preview showing just two of the fantasy class templates. Tell me whether or not you enjoy the way I've done them. I've been copy & pasting them into clipboard and doublechecking the math. I'll have more to say when I've got them into the regular format and looking good, but I was running a LARP last night and I have a game to play later today, as well as some actual work-type work, so I'm pretty crazed at the moment. From what little I have had a chance to look at, this is all looking very nice thus far.
Hierarch Leviticus 10-19-05, 12:23 PM	Okay, finally free of the hell that was my last work week. I'm formatting Verelor's stuff as we speak, and it should be in PDF for by this time tomorrow. Anyone else has any thoughts on what would go well in a fantasy brief of 8 pages?
Verelor 10-20-05, 08:33 PM	Yes, a pre-selected set of origin traits and ability adjustments to be able to play all the standard fantasy races, as well as a few starting automatic weapon proficiencies for all the other races other than human sicne humans get a whole lot more choice. How do you like this? Humans: Ability Score Adjustments: None Origin Traits: Any Automatic Weapon Proficiencies: None Dwarves: Ability Score Adjustments: Dexterity -1, Constitution +1 Origin Traits: Broad-Shouldered, Kinship-Dwarves, and Nightsight Automatic Weapon Proficiencies: Warhammer, Throwing Axe, Greataxe, and Large Axe Elves: Ability Score Adjustments: Strength -1, Constitution -1, Dexterity +1, Wisdom +1 Origin Traits: Acute Senses, Empathy, Kinship-Nature Creatures Automatic Weapon Proficiencies: Broadsword/Longsword, Shortsword, Rapier, Shortbow, and Longbow Orks: Ability Score Adjustments: Strength +2, Intelligence -1, Charisma -1 Origin Traits: Broad-Shouldered, Quick Healing, Thick-Skinned Automatic Weapon Proficiencies: Club, Greatclub, Large Axe/Battleaxe, Greataxe, Double-Axe Gnomes: Special: Small (Size 8), Grants +1 to attack and +4 to hide, base land speed 20 ft.) Ability Score Adjustments: Strength -1, Dexterity +2 Origin Traits: Kinship-Gnomes, Surefooted, and 1 feat Automatic Weapon Proficiencies: Sling, Sap, Dirk/Dagger, Shortsword Kobolds: Special: Small (Size 8), Grants +1 to attack and +4 to hide, base land speed 20 ft.) Ability Score Adjustments: Strength -1, Constitution +1, Dexterity +2 Origin Traits: Kinship-Kobolds, Nightsight, Thickskinned Automatic Weapon Proficiencies: Sap, Sling, Spear, Light Crossbow Half-Elves: Ability Score Adjustment: Strength -1, Charisma +1 Origin Traits: Acute Senses and any other two traits except broad-shouldered Automatic Weapon Proficiencies: Any two non-blunt Also added the warhammer to the weapons lists :)
Argon_Asimov 10-20-05, 09:07 PM	Wow! I am really thoughrouly impressed. Very clean and professional. While I still think that DnD is my standy-by for any fantasy, medievil-era game, I would certainly consider this as a potential system to use for anything outside of that. Well done, kudos, cookies. 2pts, and :clap:
Hierarch Leviticus 10-21-05, 12:49 AM	Yes, a pre-selected set of origin traits and ability adjustments to be able to play all the standard fantasy races, as well as a few starting automatic weapon proficiencies for all the other races other than human sicne humans get a whole lot more choice. I do like that quite a bit, though I'll need to go over them more thoroughly later on. Now, one note: the first rules-option addition is something I'm working on now (I will post a link). If you want a credit for your weapons (most will be in there), please PM me if you want a name other than "Verelor" in credit. And, Argon, many thanks. There will be more, and not too long from now, as well as a complete and fully-edited version of the main rules.
Verelor 10-21-05, 06:04 PM	Make any request you'd like for somethign fantasy-related, Levi, and I will gladly do it. This project is important to me.
Siberys 10-21-05, 10:21 PM	Decadence (Fallen futures, where humanity is sliding into a new dark age). Ah, I can imagine it now; The Foundation: Perfect 20, coming to a fileholding site near you!
Psychoticpsymon 10-21-05, 10:27 PM	Originally Posted by Hierarch Leviticus Decadence (Fallen futures, where humanity is sliding into a new dark age). Ah, I can imagine it now; The Foundation: Perfect 20, coming to a fileholding site near you!Love that !@#$ing series
Siberys 10-21-05, 10:35 PM	I know. No wonder it got the ONLY Hugo award for Best Sci-Fi series way back in '82. As one fast-food franchise would say; I'm lovin' it!
Psychoticpsymon 10-21-05, 10:52 PM	Fav. book, including the pre-founds? Mine was forward the foundation, i think. At the end, when Hari said "Dors!" damn, I felt it right here: <3
Siberys 10-21-05, 11:06 PM	Well, I've read the first three, and am on Foundation's Edge right now. I have all of the books up in my bedroom, though! Oh, and sorry to Hijack the thread. :D
Psychoticpsymon 10-21-05, 11:33 PM	i lof you.
Hierarch Leviticus 10-22-05, 04:16 AM	Ah, I can imagine it now; The Foundation: Perfect 20, coming to a fileholding site near you! Cross The Foundation with Warhammer 40K and Fading Suns, and spice it up with a few other articles, and you're looking at what I'm thinking of. The first little expansion-file for this keeps growing.... It's looking like it might hit 20 pages. But I'm working on it. Tokens are everywhere in it. In skills, in feats, and in the first magic system. It's crazy, but I like it.
Verelor 10-22-05, 11:22 AM	When are you going to update the main pdf?
Hierarch Leviticus 10-22-05, 11:50 AM	When are you going to update the main pdf? With luck, I'll have either an edit to the mains PDF, or the Weapons & Tokens stuff ready to look at by monday.
Hierarch Leviticus 10-23-05, 04:50 PM	Updated with Verelor's Weapons (http://members.shaw.ca/LeviK/Perfect20_2005.pdf)
Verelor 10-23-05, 05:11 PM	The link seems to be broken.
Hierarch Leviticus 10-23-05, 07:02 PM	Should be fixed. Not all the weapons went in (though by far the majority did), though I will be saving the rest of them - and the templates, which I like a lot - for when I get a good, simple fantasy setting geared up - a basic "town near dungeons" kind of thing that makes sense. Right now, I'm in the middle of two seperate pieces for it - one rules, one setting. Silly as it may sound, the rules piece I'm building will be Perfect Tokens, a brief on using "pools" for special abilities, skills, and magic. Which should be neat. It'll likely be 16 pages. The first setting piece I'm building, just to give the system a fun run for it's money, will likely be Black Jade, in which the characters are a special task team for a Ninja clan in a fairly-fantastic Japan.
Verelor 10-24-05, 07:54 PM	I think I'll want to finish off the rest of the class templates for when we see a fantasy arcana system released, since I really can't do half of them without one. Fighter, rogue, and ranger class templates seem easy enough to add also, but I enjoy doing things in one fell swoop. :D Just make sure you get all the fantastical stuff out the windows first, since that's what most people here are looking for (A more simplified fantasy gaming experience still appeals to even me from time to time). Tell me if the races are a little bit...vanilla. I did pay great attention to making sure it didn't clash with your open-ended system of choosing background traits as much as possible. I think the ability adjustments and weapon proficiencies were chose as logically and creatively as my ability allowed. :) I know alchemy needs a proper arcana system to go along with it, but I think I'll start working on a set of finished alchemical items, which will include the ones native to D&D!
Hierarch Leviticus 10-25-05, 01:26 PM	Tell me if the races are a little bit...vanilla. I did pay great attention to making sure it didn't clash with your open-ended system of choosing background traits as much as possible. I think the ability adjustments and weapon proficiencies were chose as logically and creatively as my ability allowed. :) They seem eminently workable from where I am. All good, there. I know alchemy needs a proper arcana system to go along with it, but I think I'll start working on a set of finished alchemical items, which will include the ones native to D&D! I'm actually beginning to think that the easiest way for us to build arcana would be to have: 1) A feat chain that grants the basic and most common spellcasting abilities - sensing magic, blasting, healing, blessing (buffs), and cursing. There'll be one of these in the "token" rules, as a kind of tester. AND 2) A fully fleshed-out alchemy system, that allows for many of the other alterations; for example, there's no reason most magic weapons and armor couldn't be build as alchemical ones instead. ...I could be off, but that seems like the fastest "in". Additionally, the feat chain could be given varied 'flavours', for use as Psionics, faith, or what-have-you in other genres. Likewise, the alchemy and Mad Science, etc. Note, though - when converting alchemical items, do please check and make sure they're OGC.
Verelor 10-25-05, 07:38 PM	Good idea, we can have it in feats trees, one for arcane and one divine, with number of spell points determined by the character's level and a metnal ability score (I'd really love to see a points system for spells in Perfect20, as well as have thigns like long spell study and preparation axed for simplicity and fun). Give me a few more details and i can attempt a basic draft! Of course, after I do that, the balalancing part is going to take a lot of time and effort (nothing a few one-on-one and party-versus-party tests can't solve).
Hierarch Leviticus 10-26-05, 01:31 PM	Good idea, we can have it in feats trees, one for arcane and one divine, with number of spell points determined by the character's level and a metnal ability score (I'd really love to see a points system for spells in Perfect20, as well as have thigns like long spell study and preparation axed for simplicity and fun). Give me a few more details and i can attempt a basic draft! Of course, after I do that, the balalancing part is going to take a lot of time and effort (nothing a few one-on-one and party-versus-party tests can't solve). I'm thinking more along the lines of having one large feat tree (say, a good dozen feats), where, upon entering it, you choose a set number of those feats that you can and can't access - putting the divisions between "specialist mage", "Psionicist", Divine", and "Arcane" all on the same footing - even some kinds of "superpowers" might fall in line... And, without question, it would be point-based casting. So, basic ideas for "Powers"... I'm thinking the "entry feat" would be Sense Power, which would allow the user to see manifestations of the various abilitites. Then, we'd have "power strike" - a basic blast. "Blessing" as a universal buff-power, "Cursing" as the opposite, "Talisman" as the way to store powers for later use in items, powders, and the like, and... Well, what else is obvious?
Verelor 10-26-05, 05:00 PM	Healing and Smiting, of course! And let's change bland terms like power strike into something like Evocation. But I REALLY recommend they be separated into at least two different feat trees for each completely different form of arcana. (Or that feat tree wil be larger than the paper it was mean to be printed on, not to mention it makes a lot of sense)
Thwyvylyn 10-26-05, 07:30 PM	Remember that the name "orks" is proprietary to GW
Verelor 10-26-05, 08:46 PM	I'd really love the spells to be free-form (with a large set of guidelines, of course). It's pretty much necessry if the document is to take up 30 pages and not 200. :)
Verelor 11-03-05, 04:59 PM	It's beent erribly quiet here recently. Any news you have for us, Levi?
Hierarch Leviticus 11-03-05, 06:37 PM	It's beent erribly quiet here recently. Any news you have for us, Levi? Unless you want to hear about my Grandfather's cancer, no. Family stuff has removed my normally excessive amount of free time. As soon as things start to return to normal, I'll be back on this, though. Ideas, I have in plenty, and multiplying. Time to actually work on them, not so much.
Verelor 11-03-05, 08:26 PM	Very sorry about that :( But while you are away, I would love to work on whatever you feel like assigning me if preferably it is fantasy-related in concept for your system.
Verelor 01-14-06, 03:50 PM	..
Verelor 01-14-06, 03:51 PM	..
St. Maelstrom 01-16-06, 05:02 PM	Is it just me, or is the link down? I'd really, really like to look at your work, but I can't get to it right now. :(
jgjob1288 01-16-06, 06:50 PM	Is it just me, or is the link down? I'd really, really like to look at your work, but I can't get to it right now. :( http://members.shaw.ca/LeviK/Perfect20_2005.pdf Try that... Google is t3h nice.... I really like where you guys are going with this. If you want a dedicated site for the system, I'd be happy to make one. By the way, where's spells, and magic items in all this? I agree with what was said earlier about a freeform magic system. It could be kinda like epic spells from the ELH, except not quite so confusing and not take so long to create stuff with.
Lina_Inverse 01-16-06, 07:34 PM	Nothing is perfect..... Glaring Imperfections.... Saves arent equal to attack/defense bonuses(aduh) Why is a specility skill lower than a known skill, or are you supposed to add them in which case the rank is too high for your level(rank in total shouldnt exceed levels to keep challenges approriete at similiar levels) All slippery slope systems are bad. Im pretty sure exp/advancement is NOT OGC.
limetom 01-16-06, 08:41 PM	Nothing is perfect..... Glaring Imperfections.... You've got a lot of this stuff backwards or mixed up... Saves arent equal to attack/defense bonuses(aduh) Yep, you're right... they aren't. Please read the Advancment Traits - Master Table on page 8 again. Why is a specility skill lower than a known skill, or are you supposed to add them in which case the rank is too high for your level(rank in total shouldnt exceed levels to keep challenges approriete at similiar levels) You have this one backwards. Specialty skills are higher than Know skills. Im pretty sure exp/advancement is NOT OGC. It is, acutally, and they don't include it. All d20 System material can be found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/20040121a). No offense, but where are you getting this from? Its all wrong...
Lina_Inverse 01-16-06, 09:23 PM	Yep, you're right... they aren't. Please read the Advancment Traits - Master Table on page 8 again. Starting Advancement Traits = The base level listed; distribute ten “raises” among these traits, putting no more than two raises into any one trait. No diffrences in cost are made, going from POOR to GOOD BAB is more valueable than going from POOR to GOOD Fort Saves(Additionally it uses non-standard save progressions but thats a nitpick). You have this one backwards. Specialty skills are higher than Know skills. Known Skill: Rank bonus is equal to the level of the character, or +1, whichever is greater. Specialty Skill: Rank bonus is equal to half the level of the character, or +3, whichever is greater. Specility skills are infact lower past lvl3 :D It is, acutally, and they don't include it. All d20 System material can be found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/20040121a). No offense, but where are you getting this from? Its all wrong... Hmmm nope. And i can find nothing about how to level up in the OGL or SRD. If anyone would like to point that one out it would be nice.
St. Maelstrom 01-17-06, 12:09 PM	http://members.shaw.ca/LeviK/Perfect20_2005.pdf Try that... Google is t3h nice.... Excellent. Thank you.