Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Patrick Draken-Korin 01-26-06, 11:09 PM	there are several types of mystical abilities available, that i've either heard of (on these boards), seen (in paper-gaming or video/computer gaming), or simply thought about (just my head). this thread is meant to organize a list of such ability types, hopefully classifying them to some extent. Terms I Use; there are a few terms i use for my campaigns that i'll list so as to avoid confusion later. - Mystical Ability; applies to any and every ability that isn't mundane or extraordinary. this includes magic, psionics, supernatural effects, and anything else. - Mundane Ability; they're like extraordinary abilities, except they're just ordinary. most unnamed racial/class based skill bonuses are mundane, as are any other effects/abilities/bonuses that appear to be subpar. - ?/day Ability; any ability has a limited number of uses per day (whether due to charges, power points, or something else). - Charge-Casting Ability; a charge casting ability is like spellcasting in core D&D, where a caster has so many uses of each different ability level. - Point-Casting Ability; a point-casting ability is like psionics in D&D, where power points are expended in varrying amounts accoding to the relative power of the ability manifested. point-casting abilities are often refered to as Mp (mana point) systems. - Skill-Casting Ability; a skill-casting ability is like the force abilities in starwars, where skill checks are required to make use of the ability. - Concentration-Casting Ability; a concentration-casting ability is something i came up with, where the caster has only so many points of concentration, and that are only temporaily occupied, never expended. - Core D&D; meaning as described in the following books; player's handbook (3.5), dungeon master's guide (3.5), dungeon master's guide 2, monster manual (3.5), monster manual 3, expanded psionics handbook, complete warrior, complete divine, complete adventurer, complete arcane, and planar handbook. I also consider data from the epic level handbook, deities and demigods, manual of the planes, monster manual 2, savage species, and fiend folio, but only when updated as they often fail to follow any logical consistency when used together (LA's from ELH not agreeing with SS calculations, D&Dg not using epic feats, differences in the statistics of bahamut between D&Dg and MotP). - Caster; basic term to describe any user of mystical abilities. Therefore i'll refer to psions and jedi both as casters, in addition to arcanists and priests. Notes; I don't have access to magic of incarnum (yet), so if you reference that work, please explain yourself fully. --------- Charge-Casting Abilities The charge-casting system is used for core D&D, as well as a few video games (sukoden 2 & 4 are the only ones i can think of off hand, probably the rest of the serie as well). The charge-casting system is moderately hard to control- the variables are caster level (or an equivalent), the relevant ability score, and bonuses acquired from various feats and class abilities. Those bonuses are the main problem (for instance, 3.5 included changes to reduce the overall possible save DC due to munchinizing). The charge-casting system offers two variations (prepared vs spontaneous). if you can add more, i'd be quite happy. The charge-casting system allows use of ability level modifying effects (such as metamagic feats that enhance the spell by increasing the required spell slot level). The charge-casting system is a ?/day ability, requiring rest in order to restore used charges. Point-Casting Abilities The point-casting system is used for D&D psionics, as well as many video games (80%+ of all games that include spellcasting). The point-casting system is moderately hard to control- the variables are caster level (or an equivalent), the relevant ability score, and bonuses acquired from various feats and class abilities. Those bonuses are the main problem, much in the same manner that they are for charge-casting abilities. The point-casting system offers two variations (prepared vs spontaneous). Though preparation point-casting is rarely suggested (if ever), it is still possible (though the main point of point-casting seems to be variablity, a preparation based point-caster that used a spellbook could be considered equal to the spontaneous point-caster; variation of options now vs later). The point-casting system allows use of point cost modifying effects (such as metapsionic feats that enhance the power by increasing the required power points or powers that can be enhanced for scaling power). The point-casting system is a ?/day ability, requiring rest in order to restore used charges. Skill-Casting Abilities The skill-casting system is used in starwars and rituals for D&D, but not in any video games that i can recall off-hand. Skill-casting may be combined with charge-casting or point-casting, use some other cost (such as spending vitality points in starwars), or even have no cost. The skill-casting system is relativly easy to control, as long as there is some cost related to the abilities used. Because all abilities produced in a skill-casting system are reliant on the caster's ranks (plus any relevant special abilities, such as the force feats), it is relativly difficult to gain too much power (as a caster can only have so many ranks in so many skills). Note that if it is possible to apply skill bonuses to skill-caster type skills, then the system becomes less balanced (especially if D&D's system of bonus squared X 100 Gp, is the applied manner of cost). The skill-casting system doesn't allow for preparation casting, partially because skill checks can't be made before the situation warrants them and partially because skill-casting would have limited options (a skill-caster shouldn't have so many options that it is possible to plan them around a specific encounter). The skill-casting system allows use of a modifier boosting system, where the skill-caster can expend additional charges/points (or another cost) in order to gain a higher modifier on the check. Because many skill-casting abilities would have a scaling effect based on the amount that the DC is surpassed, enhancing the modifier is often as good as or better than enhancing the save DC and caster level of another ability together. The skill-casting system may offer several skills that each have associated abilities (similar to the force skills of starwars), or else function in a system of rituals that are based on other casting methods but requiring a longer casting time rarer components, and harsh penalties for failure. The skill-casting system isn't neccessarily a ?/day ability, though it can be when combined with charge-casting or point-casting. Craft-Casting Abilities The craft-casting system is (apperently) used in magic of incarnum, but not in any video games that i know of. Craft-casting may be combined with charge-casting or point-casting, use some other cost, or even have no cost. The craft-casting system is an unkown factor for control. At the moment, i expect it's realativly difficult to control, but i don't know enough about the factors involved. Most likely the spell DC and caster level problems of charge-casting and point-casting systems will apply. Were i to create a system described as craft-casting, from scratch, it would likely work in a manner similar to alchemy in the game secret of evermore (the creature mixes materials to gain effects), but i'd either make the "alchemical" materials costly or else add a point-casting cost to limit uses per day. The craft-casting system may allow for both preparation and spontaneous casting, though i'm not certain as insufficient information has been given. Were i to make a system described as craft-casting, from scratch, it would allow both preperation and spontaneous casting (mixed but not enchanted vs mix and enchant on the spot). I don't know if the craft-casting system in magic of incarnum allows for any modifying effects, but given time, i'm sure i could come up with a couple. Were i to make a system described as craft-casting, from scratch, the boost system would be based on superior mixes, using rarer ingedients (and requiring more effort to make). The skill-casting system isn't neccessarily a ?/day ability, though it can be when combined with charge-casting or point-casting. Concentration-Casting Abilities The concentration-casting system is an idea of mine, though i got some inspiriation for it from the thieves world books. Concentration-casting abilities come in two forms; instant and maintained. An instant effect occupies the caster's concentration for the round it's cast and then, the follwing round, the caster's concentration is no longer affected by it. A maintained effect occupies the caster's concentration for as long as the effect lasts, reducing the total amount of concentration available to create mystical effects. Example: a concentration-caster (tom) has 8 points of concentration (level 8?). he currently occupies 2 points with a mage armor effect, 2 points with a resistance bonus effect, and has 4 unoccupied points of concentration. tom is in a fight against gnolls; he takes his turn to cast melf's acid arrow (requiring 4 points to do so). on tom's next turn, because the gnolls are grouped together, he dismisses his resistance effect, and casts fireball (6 points). I'm not sure how hard to control the concentration-casting system would be. Off hand i think it would be pretty broken if applied to D&D. The variability would mean that they'd have to have as few abilities as the warlock. probably, the best system should be based around 3.5 psionics; concentration points equal class level + ability modifier, limited spells/powers known, can enhance spell/powers by occupying more concentration. The concentration-casting system doesn't allow for preparation casting, partially because concentation available can't be determined before the situation is at hand and partially because concentration-casting would have limited options (a concentration-caster should have as few options as the warlock, or maybe just as the sorcerer/psion, preventing too much variablity). The concentration-casting system allows use of ability level modifying effects (simply increasing the amount of concentration occupied for the effect, enhancing the result). The concentration-casting system isn't a ?/day ability, and it can't be modified into one. Totem-Casting Abilities The totem-casting system is another possible answer to magic of incarnum, though otherwise i just thought it up. Actually, totem-casting sounds similar to the classical idea of magic, where a staff or wand is needed to unlock the caster's powers. Totem-casting abilities are very similar to concentration-casting abilities, because they both offer unlimited use. The difference is that totem-casting requires one or more totemic items for the caster to focus thier power through in order to activate/maintain thier abilities. A totem-caster would have a totemic capacity, a value of power that it can channel through it's totems. the caster would have to create the totem it wants an effect from, much in the manner of the classic idea of a magic wand. I'm not sure how hard to control the totemic-casting system would be. Off hand i think it would be pretty broken if applied to D&D (same as concentration castiong). The variability would mean that they'd have to have as few abilities as the warlock (or that totems would be hard to make). I'll see what replies i get on this before going further. The totem-casting system could allow for preparation casting, even though concentration-caster wouldn't, because a totem could be prepared with a charged effect (1 point maintaining the effect in the totem, but it requied 3 or 5 on the round the totem was charged). The totem-casting system allows use of ability level modifying effects (simply increasing the amount of totemic influence occupied to the totem, enhancing the result). The totem-casting system isn't a ?/day ability, and it can't be modified into one. --------- that's all i've got to write for now. if anyone's got a suggestion for further casting systems, please post. my next post will include information on arcane vs. divine and the different sub-devisions of divine magic. --------- here's what i'm gonig to do. i'll post new stuff in new posts, but increase lists or clarify in older ones. then, i'll change the color of the added material. if i should remove material/change material in a previous post, i'll list what was changed/removed in a new post. dark green > edits as of january 30. navy > edits as of february 17.
Soulsong 01-29-06, 10:59 PM	I like where you are going with these definitions for both mechanics and flavor reasons. I have referenced and linked back to this thread on one of the dragonlance threads here: http://www.dragonlanceforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7311 I think that there may be some other reasonably distinct mechanics that are not listed above. From what I have seen of Incarnum, I think that it might be a Craft Casting type. I know that craft is a skill, but Incarnum seems to require an additional layer of magic be crafted (ie a meld, etc...) in order for the magic to be used. In this way, it seems like a combination of Charge casting and concentration casting, but I think that Craft casting should be distinct in that it should be generic enough to cover talismanic magic, rune magic, or any other form of magic where an intermediary item needs to be created. I also think there might be some distinct subtypes of Skill casting (at least flavor-wise, but I think they might also effect mechanics). For instance, the "Skill" could be raw magical ablity without any awareness or knowledge about how or why it works. The "Skill" could also be Knowledge based and only really limited by the number of Spells you have studied, learned, and or mastered. The "Skill" could be a hybrid like Spellcraft, where you understand bits and pieces, but don't learn spells per se, so you would be limited by some other restriction. This is of special interest to me on Krynn, because of the recent complication of Ambient magic being a kind of magic different from what has gone before (newly labeled Focused). It is closely linked to spontaneous casting, but not identical with spontaneous casting and exists for both arcane and divine magic. All in all, I find this new layer of complexity extraneous, un-needed, completely indistinct, and pointless. Regardless of this opinion of mine; however, I like your idea so that the community can see where campaign options may be. I would love to see a matrix with the casting type mechanic paired to the classes that use them for both arcane and divine.
Patrick Draken-Korin 01-30-06, 08:36 PM	first of all, as i said, i don't have incarnum yet, but from what you've stated, i'll add it to the above list, colored dark green. second, the different versions of skill-casting (spells instictively known, spells learned, and mystical understanding), is something that had occured to me, but i was going to work on that later on. at least it's mentioned on the thread and will be an idea that's hard to lose now. thirdly, a matrix? you mean a list/chart that defines each mystical class according to what i'm working out? that was the eventual goal, though i didn't want to bring it up for fear of offending (whoo alliteration!) should i fail to reach that point. warning; this post is going to mention parts of a few things covering magic, but is niether finished or locked in stone. ------- Magic, the second largest group of all mystical abilities, and the most common. Magic is spells and items, symbols and components, tomes and prayers, organized and intuitive. Every niche in the mystical world seems to include some form of magic or form a direct relation to magic and it thus has become the scale used to grade other effects. In core D&D magic is the only organized mystical grouping, though the largest section does still exist, that of supernatural abilities. Magic is commonly divided into two sections; arcane and divine. Divine magic is usually granted from a through worship (of a deity, an ideology, animism, a primal force, or a lesser power) or through personally having a divine spark. Arcane magic is best described as an art, a force that is studied or intuitited, but never fully understood. Other sections of magic are possible, and there is the extra-sectional region of magic that can't be classified (such as that used by artificers in eberron). ------- Arcane Magic Arcane magic is the power of the mages, channeled by those who study magic and those with an innate power over it. Arcane magical features that i've encountered are listed as follows; arcane features are often applied to sperate it from divine magic. - Arcane Spell Failure; with this feature, arcane spells are inhibited while the caster wears armor, preventing an occurance of a heavily armored caster (mostly this feature is applied either to maintain the cliche of the robed wizard or to balance the mage's offensive might by preventing use of any but the lightest armor). - Arcane Fatigue; with this feature, arcane casters must face a challenge with every spell they cast and suffer a small (or great) amount for failure. This is commonly applied in literature, though the dragonlance campaign setting is the only game i can recall that does so. - Arcane Tomes; with this feature, some or all arcane casters must use a spellbook, either to prepare thier spells or even more restrictively, to cast them. Casters affected by this feature must research thier own spells or copy them from another spellbook, - Arcane Familiars; with this feature, some or all arcane casters gain access to a familiar, a creature that has gained something of a magical nature due to association with the caster. In gaming and literature, arcane magic is associated with magical items, destruction and combat, and study. ------- Divine Magic Divine magic is the power of priests, channeled by those who have attained a connection to something greater than themselves, or is occasionally the power of one that has thier own divine spark, not needing the arcane art for they are themselves divine. Divine magical features that i've encountered are listed as follows; divine features are often applied to sperate the different subsections of divine magic. - Deific Focus; a symbol of the priest's deity, whether attuned to good, evil, law, chaos, or balance. The priests of deities, those of ideologies, as well as many that worship lesser powers all require a deific focus in order to attempt thier form of magic. A deific focus is a type of divine focus. - Naturalistic Focus; a symbol of nature, often a seed, herb or blossom that is found in the region that the naturailistic priest lives. Certain naturalistic callings may require a specific naturalistic focus, but that isn't commonly neccessary. A naturalisitic focus is a type of divine focus. - Animistic Focus; a symbol of the spirits, usually an object of importance to the spirits of the land where the animistic priest resides. Many animistic focuses are unique, and they often have a magical nature beyond thier job as an animistic focus. An animistic focus is a type of divine focus. In gaming and literature, divine magic is associated with healing, alignmental influences, and necromancy (life & death). Subsections of Divine Magic There are three subsections of divine magic, as i see it. First, there is the standard of deific magic, where a clerical type worships a deity, an ideology or a lesser power. Second, there is naturalistic magic, where a druidic type serves a primal force (almost always nature). Finally, there is animistic magic, where a shamanic type speaks for the spirits of the world. There is also an extra-subsectional region of divine magic, for creatures that have thier own divine spark. Note, for the subsections of divine magic, when casting epic spells, the number of spells per day is determined by knowledge (religion) for deific casters, knowledge (nature) for naturalistic casters, and knowledge (spirits) for animistic casters. ------- Rituals Rituals (incantations) are a form of skill-casting magic introduced in unearthed arcana (and also urban arcana for d20 modern). The base system of rituals allows any creature to potentially act as a caster without having much mystical understanding. Rituals are unlimited, meaning that there is no ?/day restriction on using them, and because of this, casting an Ritual normally takes longer, requiring several skill checks, as well as offers some penalty for failure. Rituals may be arcane, divine, or fall into the extra-sectional region of undefined magic. Rituals usually aren't affectd by arcane and divine features, though on occasion such an association is neccessary. Note that rituals, though magical according to unearthed arcana, can be otherwise. A psionic ritual could be called a psychocantation (sorry, that's the best i could come up with). There could even be an entire grouping of mystical abilities, based on rituals (call it voodoo, occultism or juju). ------- ok, that's enough for today. i'll edit my first post now, edits are in dark green (edited as of january 30).