Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Vacerious 07-27-05, 02:07 PM	hey everyone, i've decided to give up on making the ff9 (final fantasy 9) campaign, but i've decided to keep the 'trance' system i made for it. basically, it works like this: *trance occurs when the PC rolls a nat 20 on initiative *when trance occurs, the PC gains benefits according to his/her class (barbarian enters an uber-rage, paladin becomes half-celestial, etc.) *trance lasts a number of rounds equal to the characters Cha. modifier (though i will make feats to where characters can use other modifiers for that) *when multiclassed characters trance, they pick the benefits of only one class. (i.e. fighter 5/rogue 2 PC may either trance with fighter benefits or rogue benefits, not both.) what do you guys think of this variant? In what ways can i balance it? have you guys heard of any other variants like this? all the help is appreciated, thanks.
Worguron 07-27-05, 03:28 PM	I would change it so classes rely on different stats to determine length of Trance. Otherwise Sorcerors, Bards, and Paladins would have extremely long trances, while the groups socially inept Barbarian would have a negative trance length. Perhaps: Barb = Con Bard = Cha Cleric = Wis Druid = Wis Fighter = Str or Con Monk = Wis Paladin = Cha Ranger = Wis or Dex Rogue = Dex Sorc = Cha Wizard = Int
ILL34GL3 07-27-05, 04:23 PM	what do you guys think of this variant? I hate it. In what ways can i balance it? Trash it. have you guys heard of any other variants like this? Nope. Randomly giving PC's extra uber powers 5% of the time seems to be something only you have thought of. Congratulations.
Raven42 07-27-05, 06:00 PM	Rather than being overtly negative and not explaining any of your reasoning behind it, give some feedback. Let's watch the name calling. WizO_TheCheat If you're basing it off of something from the game, keep it. I don't think it's all that over powerful. But then again, you didn't tell us what the special abilities for each of the classes is. And you should change it from a charisma based thing to whatever the primary ability for that class is. Which was mostly all ready suggested. I hate it. Trash it. Nope. Randomly giving PC's extra uber powers 5% of the time seems to be something only you have thought of. Congratulations.
Vacerious 07-27-05, 07:56 PM	Rather than being overtly negative and not explaining any of your reasoning behind it, give some feedback douchebag. If you're basing it off of something from the game, keep it. I don't think it's all that over powerful. But then again, you didn't tell us what the special abilities for each of the classes is. And you should change it from a charisma based thing to whatever the primary ability for that class is. Which was mostly all ready suggested. sorry. i only have benefits for the core classes, so bear this in mind. here's the abbreviated descriptions: *Barbarian: Immediately enters a rage (doesn't count against rages per day), and the benefits he/she gains from raging triples. *Bard (Didn't know what to do with this one, so): Unlimited songs for the duration of Trance, any DC's for songs double. temporary +10 to Perform and Concentration. *Cleric: Domain spells become spell-like abilities useable at will as a standard action. +10 to turning checks and damage. may cast a touch range spell as a touch attack spell without affecting spell level. *Druid (didn't quite know what to do for this one either): Animal companion becomes dire form of its species (i.e. brown bear to dire bear). when they wild shape in Trance, they retain bonuses from equipment. *Fighter: gains bonus to attack equal to fighter lvl. and an extra damage die (i.e. greatsword deals 3d6 instead of 2d6). all crits are confirmed automatically. *Monk: monk's class bonus to AC, Unarmed Strike, and land speed double. (does not stack with levels gained by monk's belt) *Paladin: paladin becomes half-celestial and mount becomes celestial. unlimited smite evils during duration of Trance. *Ranger (depends of combat style): if archery is the combat style, then the ranger can fire an extra amount of arrows equal to their Dex mod at their highest BAB. if two-weapon fighting is the combat style, it's the same as the fighter's, except the extra damage die. for both combat styles, the benefits from favored enemy list doubles. *Rogue: +10 to all Dex based skills, and 1d6/rogue lvl extra sneak attack damage. *Sorc./Wizard: may cast one extra spell each round, and DC's for spells double. for the cost of shortening their Trance duration by one round, the sorc./wiz. can maximize a spell without affecting the spell's level. -------edit------ yeah, it is a good idea to make the primary stat for the class the stat used to determine the trance duration. thanks guys. and yes, Trance is based off of FF9. it is the equivalent of the Limit Break/Overdrive of the other final fantasies, only Trance lasted for more combat rounds.
Raven42 07-28-05, 12:56 AM	Sounds almost a little over powered to me. And I would suggest changing the druid's ability a bit. There are feats and PrCs that allow the keeping of magical effects while using wild shape. I would suggest maybe they can wild shape into an animal the next size larger than their current max? Can't think of much else for that. sorry. i only have benefits for the core classes, so bear this in mind. here's the abbreviated descriptions: *Barbarian: Immediately enters a rage (doesn't count against rages per day), and the benefits he/she gains from raging triples. *Bard (Didn't know what to do with this one, so): Unlimited songs for the duration of Trance, any DC's for songs double. temporary +10 to Perform and Concentration. *Cleric: Domain spells become spell-like abilities useable at will as a standard action. +10 to turning checks and damage. may cast a touch range spell as a touch attack spell without affecting spell level. *Druid (didn't quite know what to do for this one either): Animal companion becomes dire form of its species (i.e. brown bear to dire bear). when they wild shape in Trance, they retain bonuses from equipment. *Fighter: gains bonus to attack equal to fighter lvl. and an extra damage die (i.e. greatsword deals 3d6 instead of 2d6). all crits are confirmed automatically. *Monk: monk's class bonus to AC, Unarmed Strike, and land speed double. (does not stack with levels gained by monk's belt) *Paladin: paladin becomes half-celestial and mount becomes celestial. unlimited smite evils during duration of Trance. *Ranger (depends of combat style): if archery is the combat style, then the ranger can fire an extra amount of arrows equal to their Dex mod at their highest BAB. if two-weapon fighting is the combat style, it's the same as the fighter's, except the extra damage die. for both combat styles, the benefits from favored enemy list doubles. *Rogue: +10 to all Dex based skills, and 1d6/rogue lvl extra sneak attack damage. *Sorc./Wizard: may cast one extra spell each round, and DC's for spells double. for the cost of shortening their Trance duration by one round, the sorc./wiz. can maximize a spell without affecting the spell's level. -------edit------ yeah, it is a good idea to make the primary stat for the class the stat used to determine the trance duration. thanks guys. and yes, Trance is based off of FF9. it is the equivalent of the Limit Break/Overdrive of the other final fantasies, only Trance lasted for more combat rounds.
om_dorastrix 07-28-05, 02:10 AM	I like it and it sounds really fun player wise but hell to balance... I would give it more of a limit-break-ish ability instead appliccable to all classes A single ability chosen from one of these that must be used before the end of combat. A bonus equal to your level to attack and damage, auto crit confrimed. The attack deals bonus damage equal to your sneak damage to all creatures. Any Spell cast is as a spell like ability (without cost) as a caster of five levels higher (caster level +5) As an immediate action you automatiaclly succeed your massive damage saving throw and/or if your hit points drop below -1 you automatically stabilize at -1. Regardless for the next two rounds you gain fast healing equal to you level. or also make it a roll of a natural 1 instead same % chance but it makes up for low init.
Gilean 07-28-05, 02:35 AM	What is the point? Causing random instakills when hostile horde of first level orc barbarians triple their rage? Causing random all too easy battles when players happen to roll well?
Raven42 07-28-05, 02:39 AM	What is the point? Causing random instakills when hostile horde of first level orc barbarians triple their rage? Causing random all too easy battles when players happen to roll well? It adds some flavor to the game. It's also part of the world he's using in his campaign. And in the FF series, things like this did end battles quickly. Suggestion to balance it out a bit more, lower the CR for battles when someone gets a nat 20 on init.
Eaglos 07-28-05, 03:37 AM	Nice concept if you are into FF-like settings, not my taste though. Ok, some questions/points now. 1. Will your monsters also share those benefits? 2. Rogue's and bard's abilities are lacking because they are very situational. 3. You are forcing druids to pick specific animal companions. What can a dire frog do :P 4. You are limiting character concepts because you are forcing players to max their primary abilities. Thus, you will always get the same generic PCs like an 18 Dex Rogue and 18 Wis Cleric.
DarknessEternal 07-28-05, 09:46 AM	So a Cleric could cast Time Stop or Miracle every round, and a Fighter gets an extra d6 damage? Are you even going to try to balance this ridiculosity? Or do you just want to play high card wins? This is an awful idea.
om_dorastrix 07-28-05, 11:09 AM	You could cast the spells without using up slots but you still have to pay material and XP costs... I like it from a player perspective, and in a FF campaign it would be cool, but from the perspective of a DM is adds way too much complication. Make it something a little more simple, like: for 5 rounds the character that rolled a NAT 20 recieves these benefits: Spellcasting classes get their spells without using up slots, but still paying component costs. Rangers resolve every attack as if it was their highest favoured enemy, and if it is a favoured enemey gets a +2 on top, monk gains unarmed damage, AC bonus, and Speed as a monk of 5 levels higher, it stacks. Fighter/barbarian gain bonus of their level to attack and damage and all successful hits critical. A rogue gains bonus damage to all attacks equal to their sneak attack damage. A paladin can smite evil as a free action and gains a bonus to attack and damage versus evil and undead equal to his cha mod. A bard can do is bardic music as a free action OR recieve a +20 on his next bardic knowledge check(must be used within one day). Character gains fast healing 2 All criticals automatically confirm.
da beast 07-28-05, 09:46 PM	Make it so if you roll a 20 on initiative you have to roll a second one and get a 20 (your initiative bonus applies so if you had +5 initiative it would be a DC of 15) that way you don't become uber 5% of the time.
ragingmaro 07-29-05, 02:15 AM	I have a problem with this. What happens when the 2 level party is wounded from a long time of adventuring, and they run into a wandering goblin. The goblin enters a trance with initiative and kills the adventuring party. OR does this only apply to the PCs?
Dotac 07-29-05, 02:21 AM	I agree with da beast. rather than making it just on the 20, make a second roll with a set DC necesary. I absolutely love the idea of adding trance/limit break from FF into d&d. There may be a little balance issue, but as long as the DM is aware of it and adjusts challenges accordingly, it shouldn't be a big deal. Just be sure to keep all of the abilities balanced relative to each other. What i might do as a DM, is after everyone had made their character for the campaign, i'd make a trance unique to them. i find players love it when you custom make abilities for their characters... makes them feel special. i curse myself for not thinking of this variant sooner: Freaking Awesome Kudos! :cheer:
Gunz 08-01-05, 05:12 PM	I like the trance idea (never played FF9, but played 7,8,X and, shame on me, X-2, so I'll just call them Overdrives, sounds much better than LB or trance imho). I like the idea of abilities unique to a character. I do not like the idea of trance occurring on natural initiative of 20. I just don't see what initiative has to do with Trance/Limit Breaks. I'd rather do someting like, if a player ever falls under 5% of his max HP (min 1) in combat, he gets to act on the next initiative count (his initiative count does not change, this is a one-time only effect) and he gets the use of his special ability. Other ideas: - Make the trigger character specific as wel. A character could overdrive when being near-death, when he/she sees an ally die in combat, when he/she is revived in combat, when he/she kills more than X enemies in a single round (although triggers on a characters own turn would be quite awkward, since they'd get another turn immediatly afterwards; might need to balance the overdrive to make it possible/not broken/realistic, ex He/she lets out a terrible cry of victory, which frightens all enemies unless Will save blahblah). This trigger should be a bit more background- than class-based, as opposed to the overdrive itself, which would probably be a bit more class-based (but both should be linked to each other, like the example above). The most important part would be to find a balance between flavor and function: it needs to be quite powerfull, might be even a little bit overpowered, but there must also be a reason why the character has that specfic trigger/overdrive. - I know for sure that I had at least 2 "Other ideas", though I forgot the second whilst typing the first :rolleyes: If I remeber it, I'll post it :) Ideas for triggers/overdrives: The first example, namely for a Fighter or even more so Barbarian, probably not a really good one (alignment-wise): when the character has killed 2 enemies in a single turn (or a better variant: when the character kills creatures totalling half his level in CR (rounded up, this needs scaling a lot as the character gains levels)), on the next initiative count he utters a cry of victory, which renders all remaining enemies in a huge area frightened (no save) for a number of rounds equal to his CON/STR modifier. Another one for an offensive spellcaster, even came up with a name :cool: Obliterate: after the trigger, on the next initiative count the caster has the ability to burn a number of spell slots into a massive disintigrate beam. It has a length of total spell-levels burned*10ft., the fortitude save to not be disintigrated is 10+spell levels burnt+CHA/INT mod. On a succesfull save the target still takes damage equal to spell-levels burned*d8. Any creature in the line of effect is affected by the beam. A character can disintegrate creatures with size equal to or less than his cha modifier (+1=medium, +2=large, etc. Scale width and heaight accordingly). Optional extra: SR applies, but if SR is not overcome, the damage is applied to the SR instead. Very crude and horridly unbalanced all of this, but it might give some ideas.