Post/Author/DateTime	Post
allenchan 11-15-04, 04:47 AM	The Neaderthal from Frostburn states that it is for all mechanical purposes considered a human, does that mean it can take the human paragon class?
Ualaa 11-15-04, 05:30 AM	That would be up to your DM... Assuming your DM allows the Neanderthal as a PC race and uses racial paragons, it makes sense to allow them to access human paragon as they are a human for all rule mechanic purposes.
tiggrhoo 11-18-04, 01:22 AM	The Neaderthal from Frostburn states that it is for all mechanical purposes considered a human, does that mean it can take the human paragon class?I don't have Frostburn, so based on what you said I would say YES. "All mechanical purposes" means the Neanderthal is a human as far as the rules are concerned, including rules about prestige classes and even rules that haven't been written yet. I would take it to mean that the only difference lies in "flavor text".
Wil Harvey 11-19-04, 12:03 PM	I'd say no. Read the fluff regarding a human paragon. There is no way a neanderthal fits that. The human paragon mechanics don't fit, either. How would a neanderthal have adapative learning? Or the ability to increase any stat instead of a predetermined one? I'd make a new paragon for the neanderthal. Full BAB, d8 HD, +3 bonus to survival at first level, weapon focus (any primitive weapon) at 2nd level, and a +2 to constitution at 3rd level. Round it out with some appropriate skills and 4 skill points and limit him to only light armors and I think you're good to go.
trapspringer 11-19-04, 05:28 PM	The only flaw in there was "Read the fluff... Based on that..." If you based rulings on fluff, a space marine would never fail to wound, a dark-elder melee weapon would ignore armor etc. etc. If the book says for all effects and purposes, that is what it means.
Wil Harvey 11-19-04, 07:31 PM	If you based rulings on fluff, a space marine would never fail to wound, a dark-elder melee weapon would ignore armor etc. etc. Okay, let's get this out of the way: That doesn't even make sense. Thankfully, Unearthed Arcana spells this one out for us: When deciding whether to create new paragon classes for subraces in your game, consider how different the subrace is. It goes on to say high elves and gray elves are similar enough for the same paragon, while wood elves and wild elves should probably get their own. Forest gnomes and rock gnomes are similar enough for one paragon, while svirfneblin should have a paragon created for them. I think it's pretty easy to see the neanderthal and the human are definitely different enough to warrant a new paragon class. The human paragon "balances strength with agility and temper intellect with intuition." Neanderthals, on the other hand, don't even come close to balancing strength with agility, as is indicated by their +2 str/-2 dex modifiers, and they definitely don't temper intellect with intuition, seeing as they receive a penalty to their intelligence, not to mention that whole illiteracy thing. You could let a neanderthal take the human paragon, and you'll be fine mechanically, but it's clearly pushing the neanderthal in a much different direction flavor-wise than it was meant to go.
Gilgiga of the Hunt 11-19-04, 08:21 PM	The only flaw in there was "Read the fluff... Based on that..." If you based rulings on fluff, a space marine would never fail to wound, a dark-elder melee weapon would ignore armor etc. etc. If the book says for all effects and purposes, that is what it means. You're mixing fluff with propaganda. I can only assume you're talking about Warhammer (why on this board?). But those are stories used to make people drool over what could happen, and what it looks like. I'm just going to assume that you have had more experence with Warhammer and point out some primary differences here and there. That logic applies in W40K becuase it's a stargey game, bassed on rules. The fluff is used to take what could be as dull as old Axis and Alies and make it fun. In D&D the general idea is that roleplaying is the primary objective. Fluff, defined by rules. The rules are there as to make it a playable game (no "I shot you, you're dead" "No I'm Not" s). In genral, D&D has the dreaded rule 0. What it means nobody really knows. But I've noticed the most common translation of this peice of arcane lore is that when the rules don't make sense it is 100% ok, in fact smiled upon, that you change them. The entire DMG and the Unearth Arcana (who's personaly forum we are in now) are full with optional rules. Saying that something said in UA is set in stone is really, really, really, silly. Oh and a Drow with Brilliant Energy weapons does ignore armor :P As for the pargon. I would make it different. They are a very different culture than regular humans, and the pargon should reflect that. The one already presented looks like a good option. As for skills, Handle Animal, Heal, Survival, Craft (Stonework), Intimidate, Spot, Listen, and Perform, look like a good skill list. Just bassed off of what a (pre)historical Neanderthall would need to be the best. Perhaps not HA, I can't remember if they did that or we did first. They did beat us to music for the sake of music first however.