Need help Understanding my DM's House Rulings... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Need help Understanding my DM's House Rulings... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Shar_the_Black
03-20-07, 05:14 PM Hi Folks, I recently joined a new gaming group and we'll be starting off a 1st level game in the Forgotten Realms Setting. I was really looking forward to it until the DM informed me of some house rules that he came up with. Now I've gone over them, and I'm afraid I don't understand what he means exactly.

Here are some house rules we'll be using for the game. Copied exactly the way he put them in his e-mail.

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Players roll all the dice:
99% of the dice rolling will be done by the players, from resolving attacks and damage to determining if your spell affects a creature. Although some of you are familiar with this, I'll break down the two big ones just in case somebody isn't.

Defensive Rolls: To resolve an enemies attack against you, you roll a defensive roll. This is 1d20 plus or minus any modifiers to your AC. If the roll meets or exceeds the opponent's attack bonus +11 the attack misses, otherwise it's a hit. A natural 20 is always a hit, and a natural 1 is a potential critical. For example, if you have a Dex of 18 and are wearing studded leather, you roll 1d20+7 (+4 Dex, +3 armor). Essentially take your AC and -10, then add that to a d20.

Offensive Saving Throws: Anytime you do something that would require another creature to save, you roll an offensive saving throw. This is 1d20 plus or minus any modifiers to the DC. If the roll meets or exceeds the opponent's saving throw +11 the save fails, otherwise the opponent makes its save. A natural 20 always fails, and a natural 1 always succeeds. For example, if your wizard with an Int of 18 and Spell Focus (evocation) casts a fireball, you roll 1d20+8 (+3 for the level of the spell, +4 for your Int bonus, +1 Spell Focus). Essentiallty take the DC to resist the effect and -10, then add that to a d20.

Divine Intervention:
Character death isn't fun, but it is part of the game. One extra chance out of this is Divine Intervention. Every character has a small base chance that the gods are actively watching him at any point. At any time, you may spend a full round action in prayer to see if the gods assist. If you die you get a free check. The base chance for most characters is 1/2% per character level, and 1% per level for divine spell casters or particularly devout characters. Rolling 100% is an automatic success. If you succeed, the chance for next time is half normal, and keeps halving with every success. Be careful though, the gods have a chance of noticing heretical behavior as well.

Additionally, once in the campaign when your character goes from a positive hit point total to -10 or below from a single damage roll, the party has until your next turn to bring your hit points above -10. Each person (not character) can only do this once for the entire campaign.

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This is what I'm getting out of it....

Defensive rolls: So, we make opposing rolls against the enemy's attack? What I seem to be thinking is that we ignore the automatic 10 that you get for AC, keep the bonuses/penalty's for Dex bonuses, Armor, etc. and make rolls against the enemy's attack. It sorta sounds like we'll be getting hit a lot, especially as we gain higher levels (Higher CR enemy's have higher base attack bonuses and what have you). What I don't understand is that if we get a nat 20 the attack hits, and if we get a 1, it's a possible critical.

Offensive Saving Throws: Now, I'm not a spellcaster, so this part doesn't really affect me in the least (As far as I know), but it's still a little confusing.

Divine Intervention: That sounds pretty cool, but as I'm not sure of what limited affects it could have, it sounds a little questionable.

I've never actually played or DM'ed a game with an alternate set of rules like this. I always considered that the AC system and Spell save DC's worked out just fine, but I'd be willing to try something new I suppose. Could anyone else elaborate on these rulings??:confused:
Scribbler
03-20-07, 07:21 PM I don't know about the Divine Intervention thing, but the "players roll all the dice" is a variant rule from the DMG.

Normally, you add your attack modifiers to a d20 roll, and compare it to an AC, which is really a type of difficulty class. In this variant, that's what happens when you attack, but when the enemy attacks you, you do the reverse. Take the normal 10 out of your AC and roll a d20 instead. The enemy just gets their attack bonus +11, without any rolling. This works out exactly the same, but lets the players roll dice for both attacking and being attacked, and makes armor class seem more like actively dodging. The "20 always hits" thing is most likely just an error--it should say "misses". It's just a 1 and a 20 being reversed, since the defender is rolling.

The saving throw thing works basically the same thing. You roll your saving throws against a DC normally, but when an enemy must make a saving throw against something you do, reverse it. The DC to effect them is 11+ their normal saving throw modifier. Take the normal 10 out of your DCs and add 1d20 instead.

Summary: Your attacks, enemies' AC, your saving throws, and enemies' saving throw DCs are the same.
Your enemies attack roll is always assumed to be 11, as is their saving throw roll.
Your AC and saving throw DCs replace the usual 10 with a d20 roll, to make it seem like your characters are the active ones, whether attacking or defending.
It might look different, but it all works out the same.

Here's some quick math to show how it works out the same:
The average on a d20 roll is actually 10.5, not 10.
So the average attack roll is 10.5+ modifiers, and AC is 10+modifiers.
Without any modifiers, attack rolls beath AC by 0.5, meaning that a perfectly average person hits another one 55% of the time instead of half.

An attack of 11 still beats an average AC of 10.5 by 0.5, so it still hits 55% of the time if the attack and defense modifiers are equal. The saves work out the same way.

Their numbers look a little better than yours, but that's because attack is normally just a bit better than AC, and saves just a bit better than DCs. Normally, they get a die roll against a 10, which is slightly better. Since they're getting a number vs. your roll, they need the 11 for it to work out.
Patera_Quetzal
03-20-07, 07:35 PM Yeah, these don't look like bad rules. Read about "Players Roll All the Dice" here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/playersRollAllTheDice.htm).

"Divine Intervention" sound like he's just trying to keep you guys alive. So that's okay.
Shar_the_Black
03-20-07, 07:41 PM Ok, great, thanks guys (Especially you Scribbler) for helping me understand what he was saying, know I know. (And knowing is half the battle!)

I've never heard of these rules before, but yeah, I'll try it out and see how it is.
Tequila_Sunrise
03-21-07, 07:56 PM I want to applaud you for not not going directly to the Forum for Whiny Players to complain about your DM's oppressive house rules. Now that I've done that, I ask: Wouldn't it have been easier to just ask your DM about this stuff? He can explain them as well as we can, and in addition he can explain why he uses them.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shar_the_Black 03-20-07, 05:14 PM	Hi Folks, I recently joined a new gaming group and we'll be starting off a 1st level game in the Forgotten Realms Setting. I was really looking forward to it until the DM informed me of some house rules that he came up with. Now I've gone over them, and I'm afraid I don't understand what he means exactly. Here are some house rules we'll be using for the game. Copied exactly the way he put them in his e-mail. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Players roll all the dice: 99% of the dice rolling will be done by the players, from resolving attacks and damage to determining if your spell affects a creature. Although some of you are familiar with this, I'll break down the two big ones just in case somebody isn't. Defensive Rolls: To resolve an enemies attack against you, you roll a defensive roll. This is 1d20 plus or minus any modifiers to your AC. If the roll meets or exceeds the opponent's attack bonus +11 the attack misses, otherwise it's a hit. A natural 20 is always a hit, and a natural 1 is a potential critical. For example, if you have a Dex of 18 and are wearing studded leather, you roll 1d20+7 (+4 Dex, +3 armor). Essentially take your AC and -10, then add that to a d20. Offensive Saving Throws: Anytime you do something that would require another creature to save, you roll an offensive saving throw. This is 1d20 plus or minus any modifiers to the DC. If the roll meets or exceeds the opponent's saving throw +11 the save fails, otherwise the opponent makes its save. A natural 20 always fails, and a natural 1 always succeeds. For example, if your wizard with an Int of 18 and Spell Focus (evocation) casts a fireball, you roll 1d20+8 (+3 for the level of the spell, +4 for your Int bonus, +1 Spell Focus). Essentiallty take the DC to resist the effect and -10, then add that to a d20. Divine Intervention: Character death isn't fun, but it is part of the game. One extra chance out of this is Divine Intervention. Every character has a small base chance that the gods are actively watching him at any point. At any time, you may spend a full round action in prayer to see if the gods assist. If you die you get a free check. The base chance for most characters is 1/2% per character level, and 1% per level for divine spell casters or particularly devout characters. Rolling 100% is an automatic success. If you succeed, the chance for next time is half normal, and keeps halving with every success. Be careful though, the gods have a chance of noticing heretical behavior as well. Additionally, once in the campaign when your character goes from a positive hit point total to -10 or below from a single damage roll, the party has until your next turn to bring your hit points above -10. Each person (not character) can only do this once for the entire campaign. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is what I'm getting out of it.... Defensive rolls: So, we make opposing rolls against the enemy's attack? What I seem to be thinking is that we ignore the automatic 10 that you get for AC, keep the bonuses/penalty's for Dex bonuses, Armor, etc. and make rolls against the enemy's attack. It sorta sounds like we'll be getting hit a lot, especially as we gain higher levels (Higher CR enemy's have higher base attack bonuses and what have you). What I don't understand is that if we get a nat 20 the attack hits, and if we get a 1, it's a possible critical. Offensive Saving Throws: Now, I'm not a spellcaster, so this part doesn't really affect me in the least (As far as I know), but it's still a little confusing. Divine Intervention: That sounds pretty cool, but as I'm not sure of what limited affects it could have, it sounds a little questionable. I've never actually played or DM'ed a game with an alternate set of rules like this. I always considered that the AC system and Spell save DC's worked out just fine, but I'd be willing to try something new I suppose. Could anyone else elaborate on these rulings??:confused:
Scribbler 03-20-07, 07:21 PM	I don't know about the Divine Intervention thing, but the "players roll all the dice" is a variant rule from the DMG. Normally, you add your attack modifiers to a d20 roll, and compare it to an AC, which is really a type of difficulty class. In this variant, that's what happens when you attack, but when the enemy attacks you, you do the reverse. Take the normal 10 out of your AC and roll a d20 instead. The enemy just gets their attack bonus +11, without any rolling. This works out exactly the same, but lets the players roll dice for both attacking and being attacked, and makes armor class seem more like actively dodging. The "20 always hits" thing is most likely just an error--it should say "misses". It's just a 1 and a 20 being reversed, since the defender is rolling. The saving throw thing works basically the same thing. You roll your saving throws against a DC normally, but when an enemy must make a saving throw against something you do, reverse it. The DC to effect them is 11+ their normal saving throw modifier. Take the normal 10 out of your DCs and add 1d20 instead. Summary: Your attacks, enemies' AC, your saving throws, and enemies' saving throw DCs are the same. Your enemies attack roll is always assumed to be 11, as is their saving throw roll. Your AC and saving throw DCs replace the usual 10 with a d20 roll, to make it seem like your characters are the active ones, whether attacking or defending. It might look different, but it all works out the same. Here's some quick math to show how it works out the same: The average on a d20 roll is actually 10.5, not 10. So the average attack roll is 10.5+ modifiers, and AC is 10+modifiers. Without any modifiers, attack rolls beath AC by 0.5, meaning that a perfectly average person hits another one 55% of the time instead of half. An attack of 11 still beats an average AC of 10.5 by 0.5, so it still hits 55% of the time if the attack and defense modifiers are equal. The saves work out the same way. Their numbers look a little better than yours, but that's because attack is normally just a bit better than AC, and saves just a bit better than DCs. Normally, they get a die roll against a 10, which is slightly better. Since they're getting a number vs. your roll, they need the 11 for it to work out.
Patera_Quetzal 03-20-07, 07:35 PM	Yeah, these don't look like bad rules. Read about "Players Roll All the Dice" here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/playersRollAllTheDice.htm). "Divine Intervention" sound like he's just trying to keep you guys alive. So that's okay.
Shar_the_Black 03-20-07, 07:41 PM	Ok, great, thanks guys (Especially you Scribbler) for helping me understand what he was saying, know I know. (And knowing is half the battle!) I've never heard of these rules before, but yeah, I'll try it out and see how it is.
Tequila_Sunrise 03-21-07, 07:56 PM	I want to applaud you for not not going directly to the Forum for Whiny Players to complain about your DM's oppressive house rules. Now that I've done that, I ask: Wouldn't it have been easier to just ask your DM about this stuff? He can explain them as well as we can, and in addition he can explain why he uses them.