Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Draegun Fury 12-19-06, 06:51 PM	Hey guys, I'm really stumped on this one so I'm asking you all for your thoughts. The thing is, in my campaign we have several characters that can move as much a 10 times faster than a normal character, however, they are still limited to the same 5ft. Step, and the same limited amount of actions, including the same limit on number of attacks. This is really starting to grate on my suspension-of-disbelief. So, is there any way I can make speed interact completely with the rules, thus a character that is 10 times faster can make more attacks, deal more damage, and move further than a measily 5ft. step. And more importantly, after all's said and done, how do I realign game balance to smooth over the "ripples" that such a Houserule would cause? Cheers.
memberZ 12-19-06, 08:04 PM	Ok my first thought is balance and I really wouldn't do this. But to aid in mental mayhem. Something like 0-50 speed = 5 foot step 55-95 = 10 foot step and 100+ = 15 foot step. Now to nerfing. The scout will need to change movement to skirmish something like 0-50 = 10 foot, 55-95 = 15 foot and 100+ = 20 foot. Now to reach, I'd rule the only way not to provoke AoO's is to move 5 foot even if one can step a greater distance. I'm sure there is more things to consider, but there is my start.
Draegun Fury 12-19-06, 08:27 PM	Thanks for the help, I realize this is gonna throw Game Balance waaaay out, but if I can clean it up enough I think it might be worth it. My group doesn't have the CS, so no scouts to worry about ;) One thing I'm thinking of doing, is taking the monk's Flurry of Blows and tying it into Speed. Thus every 30' past Base speed a Character and/or NPC/Monster can make one additional attack. The Monk's increased Speed is already tied into it's Flurries. So if I do this, how do you see it unbalancing the game, and any suggestions to smooth it out? (I think even though this is a drastic change it semi-balances itself due to everything getting it, PC's NPC's and Monsters alike). Any ideas/suggestions/thoughts/criticism/flames? Cheers.
memberZ 12-19-06, 08:48 PM	Straight up giving extra attack I think is unbalancing. Lessening the drawbacks of multiple attacks may be more balanced. Two weapon fighting would give a monk an extra attack and extraordinary speed could reduce the -2 penalty to maybe -1 or even 0 if their speed was massive. That way they need a feat to get the extra attack as everyone else does but their speed does have a benifit.
theotherdraxen 12-19-06, 09:15 PM	Well, if you want a more realistic description of a 5' step, think about it this way: A 5' step involves moving no more than one foot, and it is little more than a change in stance. It isn't necessarily a whole step or a portion of the steps you can make in a round.
Draegun Fury 12-19-06, 09:38 PM	I apreciate what you guys are trying to do, but what I'm trying to achieve is a vast overhaul, I understand it going to destroy game balance, that's why I need help realigning said balance. The reason I want to do this, is I see a Character with a Base speed of 30', and he gets his 4 attacks, then I see a Character with a whopping 300' and he still only gets four attacks. What I want is a mechanic that allows a character that's as quick as a superhero, we'll use Spiderman for now, to make a blinding number of attacks against the the big slow Blob. I'm just tired of this guy that's Ten Times faster than everyone else, being limited to how many attacks he can dish out. I think one of the obvious Balance issues I will have to deal with, is limiting access to hightened Speeds. At the moment what I'm gogin with is: Everything remains the same, however, everytime a Character's or Monster's speed increases by 30ft. the get an extra attack (the monk's enhanced speed and extra attacks are already reflected in his Flurry of blows). So a PC with a Base speed of 90 gets 2 extra attacks. To alance this, everyone has equal access to increasing their speed, however all said Access is severely restricted. Effectively making each 30ft. Increase speed = to a haste effects that unlike haste, does stack with other similar abilities. I might have to bump up the market price on any items that increae speed, and readjust any spells that likewise do te same. Shapechanging into a creature with a faster speed won't grant extra attacks, because the same physics that limit the Creature's number of attacks will now limit the player. This seems fairly balancable, so what am I missing? Cheers. (I really appreciate your help, just think bigger :P) Cheers again.
simplyscribed 12-21-06, 02:44 AM	An alternative to giving out extra attacks might be to allow faster characters to incorporate movement actions into their full attack. If a 30-ft. speed character can either move 30 feet. and attack or attack four times, it stands to reason that a 60-ft. speed character could attack four times and still move 30 feet - be it before the attacks, after the attacks, or in between the attacks. They would of course provoke attacks of opportunity as normal. This opens up unique new tactical opportunities to high speed characters, and makes combats more dynamic. Another alternative to giving out extra attacks could be to grant speed bonuses to the character's existing attack scores. Even if you don't use this idea, a more specific application makes a lot of sense: Granting attack bonuses to a high speed character's trip attempts. Another benefit to a high speed might be the ability/chance to ignore one or more attacks of opportunity. Somewhat like a tumbling character's fast and agile movement helps them avoid the strikes of their foes, your character would innately possess the required speed. This could be automatic (a 60-ft speed character avoids 1 AoO, a 90-ft speed character avoids up to 2 AoOs, etc.), based on a Reflex save, or maybe treat the character as though he had tumble (for this circumstance only). 1 "rank" per 2 feet of movement might be a reasonable conversion. Perhaps the faster you move, the bigger the bonus to your attack when you charge. Alternatively, perhaps a higher speed adds bonus damage when you charge. You would after all be approaching the opponent with more force than a slower character. By the same token, a high speed might grant a bonus to your strength checks for the purposes of resolving a bull rush action (+1/10 feet?). Also by the same token, a high speed might grant a bonus to strength checks for the purposes of resolving an overrun action. Alternatively, the opponent might not be able to react fast enough to choose to avoid you. I have no concrete thoughts on balancing the above ideas. I think it would be important to limit fast characters to one benefit per round, however. Ie. In a single of his turns, a high speed character can make one of the following special actions: A full-attack that incorporates movement. A move action that avoids AoOs. etc.
psionicbattousai 12-24-06, 12:37 AM	If you want a complete overhaul, this is something i've been thinking about doing for a while now: replace the speed/movement system, somehow, with a system similar to what is done in game like Final Fantasy Tactics. That way really good physical fighters may train a lot and be able to hit 4 times at once, but if they're slow, they may only get to go so many times per round. Know what I mean?