Need help with a variant on spell points [Archive] - Wizards Community

Need help with a variant on spell points [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ra-Tiel
02-20-05, 03:06 PM Hello there.

The group with which I'm playing has just recently changed to the spell points system from UA, but our dm has encountered a problem with this in his campaign.

We are playing the WLD right now, and so far almost everything's going well for us. But we just realized that with the spell points system the casters will loose a great deal of their capabilities which is not very recommendable in this dungeon. However, we all like the flexibility of the system (and because we don't have a sorcerer in the party balance is not that much of a sacred cow for us) and really would like to use it. But with around 5 or 6 2nd level spells as the total reserve of the wizard, we would rather sooner than later become food for the worms.

So we are now playing with the idea of a way to allow the caster to regain some spell points as time passes by. But exactly that's the thing that causes the most headaches to me: how fast should this recharging happen without throwing balance with the non-casters completely out of the window?

Currently I have three "favorites":

(1)
A Will Save automatically made at each full hour to regain some spell points. The result of the Will Save indicates how many spell points are regained. A "1" on the roll indicates failure as usual, resulting in no regeneration. You can at most regain as many spell points as your highest level spell costs.
Save Result Spell Points regained
=====================================
15 regain free casting
17 1
19 3
21 5
23 7
25 9
27 11
29 13
31 15
33 17

(2)
A meditation (=concentration check) that takes 15 minutes and can be tried only 1/hour to recollect one's magical reserves. You can at most regain as many spell points as your highest level spell costs.
Check Result Spell Points regained
=====================================
15 regain free casting
18 1
21 3
24 5
27 7
30 9
33 11
36 13
39 15
42 17

(3)
A die roll incorporated into the caster's class progression

Bard
Classlevel SP regained/hour
================================
1 -
2 1
3 .
4 .
5 1d4
6 .
7 .
8 1d6
9 .
10 .
11 1d8
12 .
13 .
14 2d4
15 .
16 .
17 1d10
18 .
19 .
20 1d12

Ranger/Paladin
Classlevel SP regained/hour
================================
1 -
2 -
3 -
4 1
5 .
6 .
7 .
8 1d4
9 .
10 .
11 .
12 1d6
13 .
14 .
15 .
16 1d8
17 .
18 .
19 .
20 1d10

Wizard/Cleric/Druid
Classlevel SP regained/hour
================================
1 -
2 1
3 .
4 .
5 1d4
6 .
7 .
8 1d6
9 .
10 .
11 1d8
12 .
13 .
14 1d10
15 .
16 .
17 1d12
18 .
19 .
20 1d20

Sorcerer/Favored Soul
Classlevel SP regained/hour
================================
1 -
2 1
3 .
4 1d4
5 .
6 1d6
7 .
8 1d8
9 .
10 2d4
11 .
12 1d10
13 .
14 1d12
15 .
16 2d6
17 .
18 1d20
19 .
20 2d10

Psionic characters would get an appropriate powerpoint regeneration, as well:

Psions would regenerate like Wizards/Clerics/Druids
Wilders would regenerate like Sorcerers/Favored Souls
Psychic Warriors would regenerate like Bards

My question now is: has somebody out there already tried something similar and if yes, what were your experiences with it? Seem my suggestions reasonable or are they just cheesy? What do you think of them? Any comments on our attempts?

As a sidenote: we've decided against the "Recharge Magic" variant, because our casters (wiz4, fvs4 and rgr6) would be barely of any use in combat: after 1 level 2 and 1 level 1 spell, our wizard and soul could run in circles, hoping the fighter and ranger survive the 5 rounds they need to recharge their spells. And in the WLD, that's also not an option.

Thank you all for your input and feedback.

Greetings,
_Ra-Tiel.
NineInchNall
02-21-05, 01:57 AM Why don't you just use the "Vitalizing Spell Points" variant? That has the potential to be very cheesy tasty indeed -- at least for the sorcerer/bard.

Breaks down like this:
When you are down to half max spell points, you're fatigued.
When you're down to 1/4 max spell points, you're exhausted.

You gain back a certain proportion of your spell points for resting (as in losing exhausted and becoming fatigued, or going from fatigued to normal).

It gives the sorcerer back some of the power that the wizard normally usurps using the UA spell point system.
Ra-Tiel
02-21-05, 03:49 AM @NineInchTail:

We've also thought about "Vitalizing Spell Points" and there we met yet another problem: the favored soul has just learned "lesser restoration". She can remove fatigue and lessen exhausted to fatigue, which would mean "instant spell points" the whole day long. I really don't want a single character to be responsible for the party's physical and magical reserves.

We also thought about something like this:
Casterlevel SP regained/hour
================================
1 xd4
2
3
4
5 xd6
6
7
8
9
10 xd8
11
12
13
14
15 xd10
16
17
18
19
20 xd12
where x is the caster's primary ability modifier, but after a few rolls it was obvious that this was way too much. The regeneration should give you back some power, not all of it in just a few hours.

Therefore I wanted a system that is independent of spells, ability scores, feats and/or equipment. Perhaps this could do the trick:
Casterlevel SP regained/hour
================================
1 1d4
2
3
4
5 2d6
6
7
8
9
10 3d8
11
12
13
14
15 4d10
16
17
18
19
20 5d12

Maybe even with a possibility of adding some of your casting ability modifier to the result:
Casterlevel SP regained/hour
================================
1 1d4
2
3
4
5 2d6
6 +1 sp
7
8
9
10 3d8
11
12 +(1/2 mod) sp
13
14
15 4d10
16
17
18
19 +(full mod) sp
20 5d12

But thank you for your suggestion, anyway.

Any other comments?

_Ra-Tiel.
Cymraegmorgan
02-22-05, 03:42 AM UA's spell point system lacks uumphh.

I am about to begin playtesting a Action Points/Power Point/Spell Point Hybrid that I call Resource Points.

Each class has a progression that allows some flexibility and power. Fighters and Rogues get to use their points mostly as action points, or as temp hit points. Casters and Manifesters get some extra spell slinging, or can sacrifice spells to do the action thing.
For example, a first level Wizard gets 5 Resource Points, a first level Fighter gets 10 Resource Points.
Key abilities add to the points per XPH.
Classes are divided into Arcane, Divine, Psionic, Utility. Racial Bonus Resource Points vary according to class type. A Human would get 2 bonus points in any class type. A Dwarf would get 4 bonus rps for being Utility, 2 for a Divine class, 1 for an Arcane class, 0 for a Psionic class. An Elf would get 2 for a utility class, 1 for Divine, 4 for Arcane, 0 for Psionic. And on and on....

A first level Elf Wizard with an INT of 15 would get 10 Resource Points. Her Dwarven Fighter ally with a STR of 15 would have 15 Resource Points. A Human Cleric with a 15 Wisdom would have, at first level, 8 Resource Points, plus 1 Domain Resource Point.

Did I mention I tend to run HIGH POWERED campaigns? :D
srkingdavy
02-22-05, 08:00 AM I like your meditation idea... I have adopted UAs spellpoint system across the board and agree that it's missing something.

Maybe I'll introduce a meditation feat, and it works as you have described.

my only problem is it's based on concentration, which spellcasters already have in force. I think if casters want to regain points, they're going to have to earn them.. but I don't want to make a new skill... arg... maybe concentration is the best way to handle meditation.
Suicidal Cavalry Attack
02-22-05, 07:17 PM The Core casting classes get ripped off in UA's spell point system, compared to Psionic characters.

I hate the Vancian system, but a better system is needed.

The meditation idea is a good band-aid.
The Resource Points seem good, but we've never tried using action points.
Ra-Tiel
02-25-05, 01:47 PM Any further comments/suggestions? Perhapy your own takes on this topic?

_Ra-Tiel.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ra-Tiel 02-20-05, 03:06 PM	Hello there. The group with which I'm playing has just recently changed to the spell points system from UA, but our dm has encountered a problem with this in his campaign. We are playing the WLD right now, and so far almost everything's going well for us. But we just realized that with the spell points system the casters will loose a great deal of their capabilities which is not very recommendable in this dungeon. However, we all like the flexibility of the system (and because we don't have a sorcerer in the party balance is not that much of a sacred cow for us) and really would like to use it. But with around 5 or 6 2nd level spells as the total reserve of the wizard, we would rather sooner than later become food for the worms. So we are now playing with the idea of a way to allow the caster to regain some spell points as time passes by. But exactly that's the thing that causes the most headaches to me: how fast should this recharging happen without throwing balance with the non-casters completely out of the window? Currently I have three "favorites": (1) A Will Save automatically made at each full hour to regain some spell points. The result of the Will Save indicates how many spell points are regained. A "1" on the roll indicates failure as usual, resulting in no regeneration. You can at most regain as many spell points as your highest level spell costs. Save Result Spell Points regained ===================================== 15 regain free casting 17 1 19 3 21 5 23 7 25 9 27 11 29 13 31 15 33 17 (2) A meditation (=concentration check) that takes 15 minutes and can be tried only 1/hour to recollect one's magical reserves. You can at most regain as many spell points as your highest level spell costs. Check Result Spell Points regained ===================================== 15 regain free casting 18 1 21 3 24 5 27 7 30 9 33 11 36 13 39 15 42 17 (3) A die roll incorporated into the caster's class progression Bard Classlevel SP regained/hour ================================ 1 - 2 1 3 . 4 . 5 1d4 6 . 7 . 8 1d6 9 . 10 . 11 1d8 12 . 13 . 14 2d4 15 . 16 . 17 1d10 18 . 19 . 20 1d12 Ranger/Paladin Classlevel SP regained/hour ================================ 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 1 5 . 6 . 7 . 8 1d4 9 . 10 . 11 . 12 1d6 13 . 14 . 15 . 16 1d8 17 . 18 . 19 . 20 1d10 Wizard/Cleric/Druid Classlevel SP regained/hour ================================ 1 - 2 1 3 . 4 . 5 1d4 6 . 7 . 8 1d6 9 . 10 . 11 1d8 12 . 13 . 14 1d10 15 . 16 . 17 1d12 18 . 19 . 20 1d20 Sorcerer/Favored Soul Classlevel SP regained/hour ================================ 1 - 2 1 3 . 4 1d4 5 . 6 1d6 7 . 8 1d8 9 . 10 2d4 11 . 12 1d10 13 . 14 1d12 15 . 16 2d6 17 . 18 1d20 19 . 20 2d10 Psionic characters would get an appropriate powerpoint regeneration, as well: Psions would regenerate like Wizards/Clerics/Druids Wilders would regenerate like Sorcerers/Favored Souls Psychic Warriors would regenerate like Bards My question now is: has somebody out there already tried something similar and if yes, what were your experiences with it? Seem my suggestions reasonable or are they just cheesy? What do you think of them? Any comments on our attempts? As a sidenote: we've decided against the "Recharge Magic" variant, because our casters (wiz4, fvs4 and rgr6) would be barely of any use in combat: after 1 level 2 and 1 level 1 spell, our wizard and soul could run in circles, hoping the fighter and ranger survive the 5 rounds they need to recharge their spells. And in the WLD, that's also not an option. Thank you all for your input and feedback. Greetings, _Ra-Tiel.
NineInchNall 02-21-05, 01:57 AM	Why don't you just use the "Vitalizing Spell Points" variant? That has the potential to be very cheesy tasty indeed -- at least for the sorcerer/bard. Breaks down like this: When you are down to half max spell points, you're fatigued. When you're down to 1/4 max spell points, you're exhausted. You gain back a certain proportion of your spell points for resting (as in losing exhausted and becoming fatigued, or going from fatigued to normal). It gives the sorcerer back some of the power that the wizard normally usurps using the UA spell point system.
Ra-Tiel 02-21-05, 03:49 AM	@NineInchTail: We've also thought about "Vitalizing Spell Points" and there we met yet another problem: the favored soul has just learned "lesser restoration". She can remove fatigue and lessen exhausted to fatigue, which would mean "instant spell points" the whole day long. I really don't want a single character to be responsible for the party's physical and magical reserves. We also thought about something like this: Casterlevel SP regained/hour ================================ 1 xd4 2 3 4 5 xd6 6 7 8 9 10 xd8 11 12 13 14 15 xd10 16 17 18 19 20 xd12 where x is the caster's primary ability modifier, but after a few rolls it was obvious that this was way too much. The regeneration should give you back some power, not all of it in just a few hours. Therefore I wanted a system that is independent of spells, ability scores, feats and/or equipment. Perhaps this could do the trick: Casterlevel SP regained/hour ================================ 1 1d4 2 3 4 5 2d6 6 7 8 9 10 3d8 11 12 13 14 15 4d10 16 17 18 19 20 5d12 Maybe even with a possibility of adding some of your casting ability modifier to the result: Casterlevel SP regained/hour ================================ 1 1d4 2 3 4 5 2d6 6 +1 sp 7 8 9 10 3d8 11 12 +(1/2 mod) sp 13 14 15 4d10 16 17 18 19 +(full mod) sp 20 5d12 But thank you for your suggestion, anyway. Any other comments? _Ra-Tiel.
Cymraegmorgan 02-22-05, 03:42 AM	UA's spell point system lacks uumphh. I am about to begin playtesting a Action Points/Power Point/Spell Point Hybrid that I call Resource Points. Each class has a progression that allows some flexibility and power. Fighters and Rogues get to use their points mostly as action points, or as temp hit points. Casters and Manifesters get some extra spell slinging, or can sacrifice spells to do the action thing. For example, a first level Wizard gets 5 Resource Points, a first level Fighter gets 10 Resource Points. Key abilities add to the points per XPH. Classes are divided into Arcane, Divine, Psionic, Utility. Racial Bonus Resource Points vary according to class type. A Human would get 2 bonus points in any class type. A Dwarf would get 4 bonus rps for being Utility, 2 for a Divine class, 1 for an Arcane class, 0 for a Psionic class. An Elf would get 2 for a utility class, 1 for Divine, 4 for Arcane, 0 for Psionic. And on and on.... A first level Elf Wizard with an INT of 15 would get 10 Resource Points. Her Dwarven Fighter ally with a STR of 15 would have 15 Resource Points. A Human Cleric with a 15 Wisdom would have, at first level, 8 Resource Points, plus 1 Domain Resource Point. Did I mention I tend to run HIGH POWERED campaigns? :D
srkingdavy 02-22-05, 08:00 AM	I like your meditation idea... I have adopted UAs spellpoint system across the board and agree that it's missing something. Maybe I'll introduce a meditation feat, and it works as you have described. my only problem is it's based on concentration, which spellcasters already have in force. I think if casters want to regain points, they're going to have to earn them.. but I don't want to make a new skill... arg... maybe concentration is the best way to handle meditation.
Suicidal Cavalry Attack 02-22-05, 07:17 PM	The Core casting classes get ripped off in UA's spell point system, compared to Psionic characters. I hate the Vancian system, but a better system is needed. The meditation idea is a good band-aid. The Resource Points seem good, but we've never tried using action points.
Ra-Tiel 02-25-05, 01:47 PM	Any further comments/suggestions? Perhapy your own takes on this topic? _Ra-Tiel.