Need help with Armor DR variant [Archive] - Wizards Community

Need help with Armor DR variant [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BladeMage_1
12-08-05, 05:35 PM I was wondering, how should I apply Damage Reduction into D&D without removing the bonus to defense? I'm using the Defense variant. I read somewhere here that you divide the original AC bonus by 2 (round down) and that the rest was Defense bonus. I was thinking just redo the main armors.

Armors:

Padded: 1DR
Leather: 2DR, +1 Def.
Studded Leather: 2DR, +2 Def.
Chain Shirt: 3DR, +2 Def.

Hide: 3DR, +2 Def.
Scale: 4DR, +2 Def.
Chainmail: 4DR, +3 Def.
Breastplate: 4DR, +3 Def.

Half-Plate: 5DR, +3 Def.
Full-Plate: 6DR, +4 Def.

Sheilds:

Light: +1 Def.
Heavy: +2 Def.
Tower: +3 Def.

Something like that. I'm wondering how DR works in the HP system? I'd like Armor to give DR but if it just makes things too complicated than I'll just use the RAW.
Phoenix Knight
12-09-05, 12:26 AM I recommend the Iron Heroes varient over the Unearthed Arcana one. In that, DR is a die type, that is rolled when damage is rolled. That means armor could absorb a lot of damage, or it could absorb only a little, depending on how a blow lands and how the wearer twists.
Armor adds no bonus to Defense (though Shields and Natural Armor still do). Instead, class levels add to Defense. If you go this route, however, you may want slightly higher Class Defense values than those in Unearthed Arcana, which I believe assume you will still have some AC from armor.
BladeMage_1
12-11-05, 12:06 AM What I meant was is I'm not using the Defense variant (I'm still using AC, ignore OG post) so armor still gives the Max. AC bonus. I'm now wondering, should armor give and equal amount of DR, or half that? In the UA it has them both halved, meaning Full Plate would only give +4 AC/DR4. That's stupid. Why would you want to get hit more but just soak it up with a little DR? You might as well scrap DR and not get hit at all by taking the +8 AC.

What I'm thinking is, will making both AC/DR the same (Full-plate=+8 AC, and DR8), and the original number, will it unbalance the game? I would just think it would make the PCs more durable, and they wouldn't have to stop so much to rest. Any answers?
Tenzhi
12-11-05, 03:01 AM In the low-mid levels, full AC and full DR will make armoured characters nigh-invulnerable in normal combat. Even full AC and half the AC in DR will make them extremely tough. It'll be slightly less of a problem in the high levels, but probably still too much unless it is a world where clerics and healing magic don't exist.
darkwarrior42
12-11-05, 07:08 AM I like using the Defense Bonus and DR systems as they're written in UA, with the modification they reccomend that if you wear armor you cannot use defense bonus, letting characters choose between characters who are hit less often for more damage, and characters who are hit more often but for less damage. I've had good success with this system... I also include a magical armor ability that increases its damage reduction, on a 1-to-1 ratio (the +2 version of this ability increases the DR by 2, for instance.)

It is worth noting, however, that the UA is off a bit when they talk about Ogres. They say that Full plate reduces the Ogre's damage by 25%, but increases his chance of hitting by 20% compared to normal systems, a net gain for the PC. However, that's not quite how the numbers work. Since the Ogre will never have his damage completely eliminated by DR 4/-, and he only has 1 attack, I use the following formula to determine average daamge:
(% chance of hitting X Average damage) - DR = average damage per round
which can also be stated as follows, given the nature of the d20 system:
(number of hits in 20 attacks * average damage per blow)/20

What the Full Plate as DR system does is increases the number of blows by 4, while decreasing the average damage by 4. Whether or not this is good depends on the numbers... if the average damage per blow is more than 4 higher than the number of hits, it's a net loss for the fighter, adn the greater the difference the greater the loss. Otherwise, it's a gain. Thus, against any monster with an average damage of at least 24, it's always a loss...
BladeMage_1
12-11-05, 11:50 AM In the low-mid levels, full AC and full DR will make armoured characters nigh-invulnerable in normal combat. Even full AC and half the AC in DR will make them extremely tough. It'll be slightly less of a problem in the high levels, but probably still too much unless it is a world where clerics and healing magic don't exist.

My players usually serve as fighting types. We currently have no clerics in the group, and only one spellcaster. All the others are Ftr, Rgr, Rog, and another Ftr. So I was thinking it would be safe to use this variant because they are mostly used to combat. And with this they could withstand more.

I'm probably going to go with this:Instead of a VP/WP system, I could do a HP/WP system, and the Armors all have full DR, but the DR only applies to WP. Making Armor more like SWRPG, but still providing Full AC bonus. Also we would'nt have to keep track of DR untill WP, making it less of a restriction to time. Only the AC increases in magic armors, DR stays the same. Crits could apply to WP only, but instead of any Multipliers, you roll regular damage. Magic would ignore DR, making offensive spells more useful against armored foes.

What do you think? I had to write this quick, I have other ideas, but I'm going to post them later. they include max. damage thresholds and stuff.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BladeMage_1 12-08-05, 05:35 PM	I was wondering, how should I apply Damage Reduction into D&D without removing the bonus to defense? I'm using the Defense variant. I read somewhere here that you divide the original AC bonus by 2 (round down) and that the rest was Defense bonus. I was thinking just redo the main armors. Armors: Padded: 1DR Leather: 2DR, +1 Def. Studded Leather: 2DR, +2 Def. Chain Shirt: 3DR, +2 Def. Hide: 3DR, +2 Def. Scale: 4DR, +2 Def. Chainmail: 4DR, +3 Def. Breastplate: 4DR, +3 Def. Half-Plate: 5DR, +3 Def. Full-Plate: 6DR, +4 Def. Sheilds: Light: +1 Def. Heavy: +2 Def. Tower: +3 Def. Something like that. I'm wondering how DR works in the HP system? I'd like Armor to give DR but if it just makes things too complicated than I'll just use the RAW.
Phoenix Knight 12-09-05, 12:26 AM	I recommend the Iron Heroes varient over the Unearthed Arcana one. In that, DR is a die type, that is rolled when damage is rolled. That means armor could absorb a lot of damage, or it could absorb only a little, depending on how a blow lands and how the wearer twists. Armor adds no bonus to Defense (though Shields and Natural Armor still do). Instead, class levels add to Defense. If you go this route, however, you may want slightly higher Class Defense values than those in Unearthed Arcana, which I believe assume you will still have some AC from armor.
BladeMage_1 12-11-05, 12:06 AM	What I meant was is I'm not using the Defense variant (I'm still using AC, ignore OG post) so armor still gives the Max. AC bonus. I'm now wondering, should armor give and equal amount of DR, or half that? In the UA it has them both halved, meaning Full Plate would only give +4 AC/DR4. That's stupid. Why would you want to get hit more but just soak it up with a little DR? You might as well scrap DR and not get hit at all by taking the +8 AC. What I'm thinking is, will making both AC/DR the same (Full-plate=+8 AC, and DR8), and the original number, will it unbalance the game? I would just think it would make the PCs more durable, and they wouldn't have to stop so much to rest. Any answers?
Tenzhi 12-11-05, 03:01 AM	In the low-mid levels, full AC and full DR will make armoured characters nigh-invulnerable in normal combat. Even full AC and half the AC in DR will make them extremely tough. It'll be slightly less of a problem in the high levels, but probably still too much unless it is a world where clerics and healing magic don't exist.
darkwarrior42 12-11-05, 07:08 AM	I like using the Defense Bonus and DR systems as they're written in UA, with the modification they reccomend that if you wear armor you cannot use defense bonus, letting characters choose between characters who are hit less often for more damage, and characters who are hit more often but for less damage. I've had good success with this system... I also include a magical armor ability that increases its damage reduction, on a 1-to-1 ratio (the +2 version of this ability increases the DR by 2, for instance.) It is worth noting, however, that the UA is off a bit when they talk about Ogres. They say that Full plate reduces the Ogre's damage by 25%, but increases his chance of hitting by 20% compared to normal systems, a net gain for the PC. However, that's not quite how the numbers work. Since the Ogre will never have his damage completely eliminated by DR 4/-, and he only has 1 attack, I use the following formula to determine average daamge: (% chance of hitting X Average damage) - DR = average damage per round which can also be stated as follows, given the nature of the d20 system: (number of hits in 20 attacks * average damage per blow)/20 What the Full Plate as DR system does is increases the number of blows by 4, while decreasing the average damage by 4. Whether or not this is good depends on the numbers... if the average damage per blow is more than 4 higher than the number of hits, it's a net loss for the fighter, adn the greater the difference the greater the loss. Otherwise, it's a gain. Thus, against any monster with an average damage of at least 24, it's always a loss...
BladeMage_1 12-11-05, 11:50 AM	In the low-mid levels, full AC and full DR will make armoured characters nigh-invulnerable in normal combat. Even full AC and half the AC in DR will make them extremely tough. It'll be slightly less of a problem in the high levels, but probably still too much unless it is a world where clerics and healing magic don't exist. My players usually serve as fighting types. We currently have no clerics in the group, and only one spellcaster. All the others are Ftr, Rgr, Rog, and another Ftr. So I was thinking it would be safe to use this variant because they are mostly used to combat. And with this they could withstand more. I'm probably going to go with this:Instead of a VP/WP system, I could do a HP/WP system, and the Armors all have full DR, but the DR only applies to WP. Making Armor more like SWRPG, but still providing Full AC bonus. Also we would'nt have to keep track of DR untill WP, making it less of a restriction to time. Only the AC increases in magic armors, DR stays the same. Crits could apply to WP only, but instead of any Multipliers, you roll regular damage. Magic would ignore DR, making offensive spells more useful against armored foes. What do you think? I had to write this quick, I have other ideas, but I'm going to post them later. they include max. damage thresholds and stuff.