Nethack? [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Nethack? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ShinoAburame
01-29-07, 02:04 PM Anyone here play Nethack? I was trying to see if I could translate this super-fun rogue game to tabletop. Tell me how you like it. I'm using generic classes to give players more leg-room in creating a character.

Defense Bonus:
Experts gain the column D def bonus.
Warriors gain the column D def bonus.
Spellcasters gain the column A def bonus.

Skillpoints:
Sense skillpoints have become more nesscarey, they now gain more.
Experts gain 11+int modifier x4 at first level, then 11+int modifier each additional level.
Warriors gain 6+int modifier x4 at first level, then 6+int modifier each additional level.
Spellcasters gain 3+int modifier x4 at first level, then 3+int modifer each additional level.

Armor/Shields:
Supply damage resistance where there would've otherwise been AC bonus.

Profficitnecies:
Warriors now have profficientcy with all weapons, all armor, and all shields. (Including tower shields.)

Gear break:
Gear has a chance of breaking, when weapons are used to attack or when armor is used to defend, you must make a DC as suggested by the weapon. For the save to work, you must roll a d20+ either strength or dexterity modifier. (Depending on the weapon)

Additional AC:
Characters may expend skillpoints to increase AC further. They treat skillpoints epended this way like a cross-class skill. (So at lvl 1 they can only increase thier AC by +2, then at lvl 3 by +3, and so on. Also it requires 2 instead of 1 skillpoint being as this is a sortof viritual cross-class skill...)

Increased Hit Die:
Spells are broken, no two ways about it. So the two non-casting classes get an AC bonus:
Experts now have a hit die of d8.
Warriors now have a hit die of d12.

You roll for HP at first level.

Mana:
Spellcasters now use mana instead of spells per day. They gain mana as a psi-warrior would gain powerpoints, and gain additional mana based on how high thier key stat is. (Check the psionic table) Spells cost mana equal to thier spell level plus one. (So lvl 0=1 mana, lvl 9=10 mana) Depending on if you're a divine or arcane caster you have a differant key stat.

Charisma=Arcane
Wisdom=Divine

Spells are harder to cast:
Not only do all spells suffer from somatic-spell failure, but all spells require a concentration check of 11+the spell's level to succeed.

Law/Chaos Spells:
Most spells are now either tagged with [Law] or [Chaos], a spellcaster can learn either no matter thier alingment. But can't use them if thier alingment counteracts with the tagged spell. Some spells are neutral. There are no neutral characters seeing as law/chaos points are allocated. Merely lesser lawfuls and lesser chaotics. Good/Evil are irrelevant to the gods, they only care about how you serve thier motives.

Where they can select thier spells from:
If you selected arcane caster, choose from the sorcerer/wizard spell-list, if you selected divine caster, choose from the cleric spell-list.

Spellcraft/Knowledge (Arcana):
Considerd one and the same.

New Skills:
There's some new skills to further make the game interesting.

Innuendo. (Wisdom)
Gamble. (Charisma)
Shadowing. (Dexterity)
Track. (Wisdom) -yes, track is now a skill, not a feat-

Prequisites for Generic Abilities:
These abilities are generaly too easy to get considering they only cost a feat. So prequisites have been made.

Familiar:
Prequisite: Ability to cast arcane spells.

Favored Enemy:
Prequisite: 5 or more ranks in either knowledge (dungeoneering), knowledge (the planes), or knowledge (nature).

Uncanny Dodge:
Prequisite: Dexterity 15 or higher, Wisdom 13 or higher.

Smite:
Prequisite: Charisma 13 or higher, chaos or lawful alingment.
Ability: As the paladin's smite but only works on the oppoising alignment. (So it hurts the lawful if you're chaotic or the chaotic if you're lawful) This smite can work on ranged attacks.

Rage:
Prequisite: Constitution 14 or higher.

Tireless Rage:
Prequisite: Constitution 21 or higher, Rage.

Damage Resistance:
Prequisite: Strength modifier equal to damage resistance taken.
(You can take this feat multiple times stacking the damage resistance, but you need to have a suitable modifier level, for example if you want damage resistance /2, you need to be atleast have a strength modifier of +2.)

Weapon Profficientcy are now skill based:
Yes, a warrior still can use all martial/simple weapons or whatever. But rather then an attack bonus outright, all weapons are skill based. You can take ranks in them like a skill, treat the ones you are profficient with as class-skills and the ones you're not as cross-class skills. Then to determine if an attack succeeds, roll a weapon skill check against someone's AC.

You must take skillpoints in weapons individualy. Skill Focus cannot be used to gain more bonuses in a weapon, only weapon specialization and advanced weapon specialization can be used for that.

You add modifiers to the skill-based weapons based on strength or dexterity. (Depending on the weapon)

Massive Damage Threshold:
You have a massive damage threshold equal to your constitution. Make a fortitude save of 10+the damage over your constitution. (Say you took 20 damage and have a con score of 17. This means you'd make a fort save of 13)

Tradeoff of BaB:
To balance the warrior with other classes, Base Attack Bonus now supplies you with additional skillpoints based on the modifier that can only be used to increase your rank in weapon wielding.

TWO WEAPON FIGHTING:
Now has become a five feat tree, and works fairly differant from how it use too.

Lesser Two-Weapon Fighting:
Prequisite: Dextertiy 12 or higher.
Ability: You can now fight with two light weapons each at a -6 atk penalty each.
Normal: You'd take a -10 atk penalty each.

Greater Two-Weapon Fighting:
Prequisite: Lesser Two-Weapon Fighting.
Ability: You now only take a -4 atk penalty in each hand.

Improved Two-Weapon Fighting:
Prequisite: Lesser Two-Wepon Fighting, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting.
Ability: You now take no atk penalty to each hand.

Advanced Two-Weapon Fighting:
Prequisite: Lesser Two-Weapon Fighting, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting.
Ability: You can now use one-handed weapons, not just light weapons for dual-wielding.

Two-Weapn Defense:
Prequiste: Lesser Two-Weapon Fighting.
Ability: You gain +1 AC bonus. (If you're dual-wielding one-handed weapons instead of light, you gain +2 AC bonus instead)
jagggar
01-29-07, 06:29 PM Nope, I have no idea what you're talking about, but I'll put out some thoughts as well.

Gear break:
Gear has a chance of breaking, when weapons are used to attack or when armor is used to defend, you must make a DC as suggested by the weapon. For the save to work, you must roll a d20+ either strength or dexterity modifier. (Depending on the weapon)That's gunna slow down combat alot. Make it only happen on criticals or when the weapon or armor is targeted specifically.

Increased Hit Die:
Spells are broken, no two ways about it. So the two non-casting classes get an AC bonus:
Experts now have a hit die of d8.
Warriors now have a hit die of d12. Aww, why not just fix the spells? :P

New Skills:
There's some new skills to further make the game interesting.

Innuendo. (Wisdom)
Gamble. (Charisma)
Shadowing. (Dexterity)
Track. (Wisdom) -yes, track is now a skill, not a feat- How do they work? (I assume Track works as it always did.)

Prequisites for Generic Abilities:
These abilities are generaly too easy to get considering they only cost a feat. So prequisites have been made.

Favored Enemy:
Prequisite: 5 or more ranks in either knowledge (dungeoneering), knowledge (the planes), or knowledge (nature).

Damage Resistance:
Prequisite: Strength modifier equal to damage resistance taken.
(You can take this feat multiple times stacking the damage resistance, but you need to have a suitable modifier level, for example if you want damage resistance /2, you need to be atleast have a strength modifier of +2.) Understandable.

Favored Enemy: Why not, "Knowledge (any) 5 ranks. To select a favored enemy, you must have 5 or more ranks in the associated Knowledge skill"?

By Damage Resistance do you mean Damage Reduction? If not, what's Damage resistance?
Why use Strength instead of Constitution?

Weapon Profficientcy are now skill based:
Yes, a warrior still can use all martial/simple weapons or whatever. But rather then an attack bonus outright, all weapons are skill based. You can take ranks in them like a skill, treat the ones you are profficient with as class-skills and the ones you're not as cross-class skills. Then to determine if an attack succeeds, roll a weapon skill check against someone's AC.

You must take skillpoints in weapons individualy. Skill Focus cannot be used to gain more bonuses in a weapon, only weapon specialization and advanced weapon specialization can be used for that.

You add modifiers to the skill-based weapons based on strength or dexterity. (Depending on the weapon) EEP!
I highly suggest you look at the Weapon Group Feats (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/weaponGroupFeats.htm) and consider using the Weapon Groups as your weapon skill groups instead of requiring each and every single different weapon to have skill ranks perchsed seperately.

Tradeoff of BaB:
To balance the warrior with other classes, Base Attack Bonus now supplies you with additional skillpoints based on the modifier that can only be used to increase your rank in weapon wielding. Huh?
The BAB itself grants a single skill point that you can spend towards weapon skills when you would normally gain a point of BAB? I'm not sure that sounds all that good. Maybe Warriors gain 4 Weapon Skill Points per level in addition to the normal skill points. Experts would gain 2 WSP, and Spellcasters would gain 1 WSP.
Thomar_of_Uointer
01-30-07, 01:48 PM Nah, I think Nethack is so grounded in D&D that you can use the 3.5 rules without any problem. The tough part is making a 30-level dungeon with multiple branches.
Ikeren
01-30-07, 02:43 PM Yeah, exactly. A friend ran a nethack campaign, and just used a standard party - fighter, rogue, wizard, cleric, with 0 rules changes. It felt like just one massive dungeon Romp with ingrained cities. Certain things would feel funny - you'd place shops randomly in the dungeon, certain monsters would have different abilities, and you'd have to look at the intrinsics differently...
Thomar_of_Uointer
01-30-07, 03:53 PM Oh, in a now-defunct play-by-post game, I did work out some of the molds.

Cave Lichen CR 1
Cave lichen is a land-based strain of algae that grows extremely rapidly in bright light when it has a source of water to draw from. A typical patch is 50' in diameter and has several mounds containing dead creatures carrying burnt-out torches, sunrods, or illuminating magical items. Any character carrying a source of bright illumination who stands adjacent to or in a patch of cave lichen must make a DC 15 Reflex save or be trapped and helpless in the ensuing growth that occurs, and can make a Strength check each round to get free (DC 15 + 2 per round trapped while carrying a light source). Characters can aid a trapped character with a Strength check at the same DC with a +10 circumstance bonus from leverage, or by hacking away at the lichen with weapons. Cave lichen is killed by dry conditions or direct sunlight. Characters can find double standard treasure from a cave lichen patch. Any magic weapons found in a patch of cave lichen have a 90% chance of illuminating, and are typically surrounded by crystalized lichen.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10152716&postcount=19
http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10156562&postcount=24
http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10159831&postcount=33

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ShinoAburame 01-29-07, 02:04 PM	Anyone here play Nethack? I was trying to see if I could translate this super-fun rogue game to tabletop. Tell me how you like it. I'm using generic classes to give players more leg-room in creating a character. Defense Bonus: Experts gain the column D def bonus. Warriors gain the column D def bonus. Spellcasters gain the column A def bonus. Skillpoints: Sense skillpoints have become more nesscarey, they now gain more. Experts gain 11+int modifier x4 at first level, then 11+int modifier each additional level. Warriors gain 6+int modifier x4 at first level, then 6+int modifier each additional level. Spellcasters gain 3+int modifier x4 at first level, then 3+int modifer each additional level. Armor/Shields: Supply damage resistance where there would've otherwise been AC bonus. Profficitnecies: Warriors now have profficientcy with all weapons, all armor, and all shields. (Including tower shields.) Gear break: Gear has a chance of breaking, when weapons are used to attack or when armor is used to defend, you must make a DC as suggested by the weapon. For the save to work, you must roll a d20+ either strength or dexterity modifier. (Depending on the weapon) Additional AC: Characters may expend skillpoints to increase AC further. They treat skillpoints epended this way like a cross-class skill. (So at lvl 1 they can only increase thier AC by +2, then at lvl 3 by +3, and so on. Also it requires 2 instead of 1 skillpoint being as this is a sortof viritual cross-class skill...) Increased Hit Die: Spells are broken, no two ways about it. So the two non-casting classes get an AC bonus: Experts now have a hit die of d8. Warriors now have a hit die of d12. You roll for HP at first level. Mana: Spellcasters now use mana instead of spells per day. They gain mana as a psi-warrior would gain powerpoints, and gain additional mana based on how high thier key stat is. (Check the psionic table) Spells cost mana equal to thier spell level plus one. (So lvl 0=1 mana, lvl 9=10 mana) Depending on if you're a divine or arcane caster you have a differant key stat. Charisma=Arcane Wisdom=Divine Spells are harder to cast: Not only do all spells suffer from somatic-spell failure, but all spells require a concentration check of 11+the spell's level to succeed. Law/Chaos Spells: Most spells are now either tagged with [Law] or [Chaos], a spellcaster can learn either no matter thier alingment. But can't use them if thier alingment counteracts with the tagged spell. Some spells are neutral. There are no neutral characters seeing as law/chaos points are allocated. Merely lesser lawfuls and lesser chaotics. Good/Evil are irrelevant to the gods, they only care about how you serve thier motives. Where they can select thier spells from: If you selected arcane caster, choose from the sorcerer/wizard spell-list, if you selected divine caster, choose from the cleric spell-list. Spellcraft/Knowledge (Arcana): Considerd one and the same. New Skills: There's some new skills to further make the game interesting. Innuendo. (Wisdom) Gamble. (Charisma) Shadowing. (Dexterity) Track. (Wisdom) -yes, track is now a skill, not a feat- Prequisites for Generic Abilities: These abilities are generaly too easy to get considering they only cost a feat. So prequisites have been made. Familiar: Prequisite: Ability to cast arcane spells. Favored Enemy: Prequisite: 5 or more ranks in either knowledge (dungeoneering), knowledge (the planes), or knowledge (nature). Uncanny Dodge: Prequisite: Dexterity 15 or higher, Wisdom 13 or higher. Smite: Prequisite: Charisma 13 or higher, chaos or lawful alingment. Ability: As the paladin's smite but only works on the oppoising alignment. (So it hurts the lawful if you're chaotic or the chaotic if you're lawful) This smite can work on ranged attacks. Rage: Prequisite: Constitution 14 or higher. Tireless Rage: Prequisite: Constitution 21 or higher, Rage. Damage Resistance: Prequisite: Strength modifier equal to damage resistance taken. (You can take this feat multiple times stacking the damage resistance, but you need to have a suitable modifier level, for example if you want damage resistance /2, you need to be atleast have a strength modifier of +2.) Weapon Profficientcy are now skill based: Yes, a warrior still can use all martial/simple weapons or whatever. But rather then an attack bonus outright, all weapons are skill based. You can take ranks in them like a skill, treat the ones you are profficient with as class-skills and the ones you're not as cross-class skills. Then to determine if an attack succeeds, roll a weapon skill check against someone's AC. You must take skillpoints in weapons individualy. Skill Focus cannot be used to gain more bonuses in a weapon, only weapon specialization and advanced weapon specialization can be used for that. You add modifiers to the skill-based weapons based on strength or dexterity. (Depending on the weapon) Massive Damage Threshold: You have a massive damage threshold equal to your constitution. Make a fortitude save of 10+the damage over your constitution. (Say you took 20 damage and have a con score of 17. This means you'd make a fort save of 13) Tradeoff of BaB: To balance the warrior with other classes, Base Attack Bonus now supplies you with additional skillpoints based on the modifier that can only be used to increase your rank in weapon wielding. TWO WEAPON FIGHTING: Now has become a five feat tree, and works fairly differant from how it use too. Lesser Two-Weapon Fighting: Prequisite: Dextertiy 12 or higher. Ability: You can now fight with two light weapons each at a -6 atk penalty each. Normal: You'd take a -10 atk penalty each. Greater Two-Weapon Fighting: Prequisite: Lesser Two-Weapon Fighting. Ability: You now only take a -4 atk penalty in each hand. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting: Prequisite: Lesser Two-Wepon Fighting, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting. Ability: You now take no atk penalty to each hand. Advanced Two-Weapon Fighting: Prequisite: Lesser Two-Weapon Fighting, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting. Ability: You can now use one-handed weapons, not just light weapons for dual-wielding. Two-Weapn Defense: Prequiste: Lesser Two-Weapon Fighting. Ability: You gain +1 AC bonus. (If you're dual-wielding one-handed weapons instead of light, you gain +2 AC bonus instead)
jagggar 01-29-07, 06:29 PM	Nope, I have no idea what you're talking about, but I'll put out some thoughts as well. Gear break: Gear has a chance of breaking, when weapons are used to attack or when armor is used to defend, you must make a DC as suggested by the weapon. For the save to work, you must roll a d20+ either strength or dexterity modifier. (Depending on the weapon)That's gunna slow down combat alot. Make it only happen on criticals or when the weapon or armor is targeted specifically. Increased Hit Die: Spells are broken, no two ways about it. So the two non-casting classes get an AC bonus: Experts now have a hit die of d8. Warriors now have a hit die of d12. Aww, why not just fix the spells? :P New Skills: There's some new skills to further make the game interesting. Innuendo. (Wisdom) Gamble. (Charisma) Shadowing. (Dexterity) Track. (Wisdom) -yes, track is now a skill, not a feat- How do they work? (I assume Track works as it always did.) Prequisites for Generic Abilities: These abilities are generaly too easy to get considering they only cost a feat. So prequisites have been made. Favored Enemy: Prequisite: 5 or more ranks in either knowledge (dungeoneering), knowledge (the planes), or knowledge (nature). Damage Resistance: Prequisite: Strength modifier equal to damage resistance taken. (You can take this feat multiple times stacking the damage resistance, but you need to have a suitable modifier level, for example if you want damage resistance /2, you need to be atleast have a strength modifier of +2.) Understandable. Favored Enemy: Why not, "Knowledge (any) 5 ranks. To select a favored enemy, you must have 5 or more ranks in the associated Knowledge skill"? By Damage Resistance do you mean Damage Reduction? If not, what's Damage resistance? Why use Strength instead of Constitution? Weapon Profficientcy are now skill based: Yes, a warrior still can use all martial/simple weapons or whatever. But rather then an attack bonus outright, all weapons are skill based. You can take ranks in them like a skill, treat the ones you are profficient with as class-skills and the ones you're not as cross-class skills. Then to determine if an attack succeeds, roll a weapon skill check against someone's AC. You must take skillpoints in weapons individualy. Skill Focus cannot be used to gain more bonuses in a weapon, only weapon specialization and advanced weapon specialization can be used for that. You add modifiers to the skill-based weapons based on strength or dexterity. (Depending on the weapon) EEP! I highly suggest you look at the Weapon Group Feats (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/weaponGroupFeats.htm) and consider using the Weapon Groups as your weapon skill groups instead of requiring each and every single different weapon to have skill ranks perchsed seperately. Tradeoff of BaB: To balance the warrior with other classes, Base Attack Bonus now supplies you with additional skillpoints based on the modifier that can only be used to increase your rank in weapon wielding. Huh? The BAB itself grants a single skill point that you can spend towards weapon skills when you would normally gain a point of BAB? I'm not sure that sounds all that good. Maybe Warriors gain 4 Weapon Skill Points per level in addition to the normal skill points. Experts would gain 2 WSP, and Spellcasters would gain 1 WSP.
Thomar_of_Uointer 01-30-07, 01:48 PM	Nah, I think Nethack is so grounded in D&D that you can use the 3.5 rules without any problem. The tough part is making a 30-level dungeon with multiple branches.
Ikeren 01-30-07, 02:43 PM	Yeah, exactly. A friend ran a nethack campaign, and just used a standard party - fighter, rogue, wizard, cleric, with 0 rules changes. It felt like just one massive dungeon Romp with ingrained cities. Certain things would feel funny - you'd place shops randomly in the dungeon, certain monsters would have different abilities, and you'd have to look at the intrinsics differently...
Thomar_of_Uointer 01-30-07, 03:53 PM	Oh, in a now-defunct play-by-post game, I did work out some of the molds. Cave Lichen CR 1 Cave lichen is a land-based strain of algae that grows extremely rapidly in bright light when it has a source of water to draw from. A typical patch is 50' in diameter and has several mounds containing dead creatures carrying burnt-out torches, sunrods, or illuminating magical items. Any character carrying a source of bright illumination who stands adjacent to or in a patch of cave lichen must make a DC 15 Reflex save or be trapped and helpless in the ensuing growth that occurs, and can make a Strength check each round to get free (DC 15 + 2 per round trapped while carrying a light source). Characters can aid a trapped character with a Strength check at the same DC with a +10 circumstance bonus from leverage, or by hacking away at the lichen with weapons. Cave lichen is killed by dry conditions or direct sunlight. Characters can find double standard treasure from a cave lichen patch. Any magic weapons found in a patch of cave lichen have a 90% chance of illuminating, and are typically surrounded by crystalized lichen. http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10152716&postcount=19 http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10156562&postcount=24 http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10159831&postcount=33