New class with new spell list - please critique [Archive] - Wizards Community

New class with new spell list - please critique [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Positronica
09-10-07, 02:04 AM So, I'm going to be running a new campaign soon where I'm going to be having one of the players play the heir to the throne of a fading, yet still strong empire. I decided to try to create a new class that would be suited to that type of character, rather than trying to force the character into a combination of other classes. (I'm sure there's probably other non-standard classes out there that would have fit the bill, but I decided to just take a crack at it myself.) The class is only specific to the Lawfull alignment, and could be played by both a good or an evil would-be-sovereign. I gave the class a limited spell list and tried to come up with spells and special abilities that reflected the idea of a prince or heir out adventuring. I think the class would work well for someone trying to play a King Aurthur or Aragorn type character. I also added a few spells, such as the ability to commune with one's dead ancestors, which would allow for some unique roleplaying opportunities. Anyways, you can download a PDF of the class at the following link. I formatted everything to match the PHB, because I'm obsessive that way. I'd like to hear anyone's comments or suggestions on what they like and what they think I should change.

See post later in thread for updated download
ZapRowsdower
09-10-07, 04:23 AM Piece by piece...

Really nice looking PDF

Good skill list, great skill points/level, and the Heir can be an Int caster if he wants to be. Tons and tons of skills.

Favored Destiny is a pretty useful ability

High education is decent

Bonus feat, from anywhere? this is very very good

Inspire Leadership is pretty good

Ablility boost can be decent but not as great as a real class ability

Choosing your spellcasting stat is handy but not unbalanced

The approval rating chart is laughable; how are the peasants supposed to know exactly what the king is doing when he's off adventuring? How is the king supposed to know what the peasants think of him?

light crossbow is a simple weapon

Spells: Very few spells per day; most of the time the Heir will have to be a substandard fighter until every once in a while he breaks out some once per day abilities. Kind of interesting concept but can be pretty frustrating for the player.

Custom spells:
Dispel Magic as a 1st level spell!
Imbue Crown is very good (especially because it doesn't limit you to Heir Spells or a particular spell level)
Inspire Endurance is very good as well, +1/level to a bunch of skills for 1 hour/level!
Mark of Ascendancy is a good curse spell, and doesn't allow a save
Mark of Destiny and Greater Mark of Destiny are the same spell level; also why not use death ward instead.
Seal of Banishment is unclear; it is a compulsion spell that doesn't allow a save (huh) but it has what to do if the creature disobeys orders; huh?
Seal of Obligation - Just use Gaes/Quest!
Words of Authority - "Can't be dispelled" is pretty strong, I wouldn't play around with that.
Word of Challenge - Again, another compulsion spell that doesn't allow a save and this one can AOE kill people too
Word of Command - AOE command people, 1d4 HD per level (!), and works on undead too
Word of Defiance - read this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/protectionFromSpells.htm)
and compare
Words of Opposition - also this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mindBlank.htm)
Words of Rebuke - This is pretty good; 7d6 non elemental damage no save
Words of Soverenty - Again, crazy. Good for killing low level guys and high level guys; Area of effect kill spell because. paralyzed = dead. Also, stunned if they MAKE their save? really good.

The heir needs stuff he can do when he's out of 1 use/day abilities. Full casters have limited uses on their abilities too, but they can fall back on their lower level spells much more easily than the Heir can.

I think some of the spells are overpowered or need to be rethought. Coming up with custom spells can be fun but why not just use the ones in the PHB?

Tons of the Heir's abilities tend to be very good, but have only one or two uses per day. What you might see if you someone plays as a Heir is that they want to rest and recover their abilities A LOT, because they are so powerful and gone so quickly.

An interesting twist, but I don't see it working very well. A wisecracking rogue, an inexperienced wizard, a restless barbarian, and a ... king? I see all sorts of weird roleplay interactions like "sorry I have to stop adventuring to run my kingdom" or "why don't I put the resources of my nation into solving this problem? Call in 20 trapfinders, you can put your thieves Tools away, Steve" not to mention "You should listen to me and do MY plan, I'm your ruler".

What I do see is this as a Prestiege Class of some sort. It requires you to have some sort of kingdom or fiefdom, the feat leadership, and a certain collection of skills/heritage. You would get some divine spells, and some kingly powers. I just don't see it working as a base class at all.
Positronica
09-10-07, 12:44 PM Ok, thanks for the critique, ZapRowsdower. I agree with some of the issues you raised, and I've gone through and made some changes. The class probably still isn't much to your liking, since I didn't agree with everything you brought up, but I think its approaching a playable state for the specific campaign I'll be running.

Piece by piece...
Really nice looking PDF

Good skill list, great skill points/level, and the Heir can be an Int caster if he wants to be. Tons and tons of skills.

I want the royal heir to have the potential to be a very intelligent and knowledgable character. Think of the prince in the movie Flesh+Blood.

Bonus feat, from anywhere? this is very very good

I was afraid this might be too powerful, but the royal heir gets this unrestricted feat at only 2nd level, so he won't meet the prerequisites of a lot of the really nice feats. That being said, I may still change this to be restricted to only fighter bonus feats.

Ablility boost can be decent but not as great as a real class ability

Well, I guess that depends on what the class ability is. My goal with the two +2 ability boosts was to give the class some flexibilty. If both of the increases are put into STR, the low BAB won't be quite as big of hinderance in melee combat, or the two ability boosts could be used to try and get additional bonus spell slots. Also, the player would have more options during initial ability stat assignment, since he would know he'd be getting some decent increases over the course of the first 10 levels.

light crossbow is a simple weapon

Thanks, I fixed that.

Spells: Very few spells per day; most of the time the Heir will have to be a substandard fighter until every once in a while he breaks out some once per day abilities. Kind of interesting concept but can be pretty frustrating for the player.

I've gone back and increased the spells per day a significant amount. At level 10 a Royal Heir will now have 14.5 spells per day, before adding in any bonus spell slots. I'm counting the psuedo slot providing by Imbue Crown as only half a spell since at most it would only be avaiable to the Royal Heir every other day.

Inspire Endurance is very good as well, +1/level to a bunch of skills for 1 hour/level!

In my campaign the party will spend a lot of time travalling over rough terrain over long distances, often while being pursued, so I felt that such a spell would come in handy. Also, keep in mind that while the bonuses are nice, there is an 8 hour penalty once the spell expires.

Mark of Ascendancy is a good curse spell, and doesn't allow a save

I'm thinking of changing the curse in this spell from -4 to -2. I think -4 might be too strong, but I need to think about it more.

Mark of Destiny and Greater Mark of Destiny are the same spell level; also why not use death ward instead.

I fixed the same level typo. I didn't use death ward, just to put in some variety. Mark of Destiny doesn't protect against as much stuff as Death Ward, but it has a much longer duration. Plus Greater Mark of Destiny gives the protection to nearby allies, too. Also, as a DM I'm not a big fan of using death magic against the players, since its always such a crap-shoot way to suddenly off a character. I wanted to give them an easy way to counter a lot of death magic that fit with the character and setting.

Seal of Banishment is unclear; it is a compulsion spell that doesn't allow a save (huh) but it has what to do if the creature disobeys orders; huh?

I fixed the text of this to make it more clear. To clarify, the target is not forced to retreat, he is simply given the choice of either retreating or taking damage. Perhaps I shouldn't classify it as a compulsion spell, but I still want it to have the [Mind-Affecting] descriptor.

Seal of Obligation - Just use Gaes/Quest!

I thought about that, but I wanted a spell that would allow the Royal Heir to force someone to be indebted to him, but would allow him to define how that debt can be repayed at a later date.

Word of Authority - "Can't be dispelled" is pretty strong, I wouldn't play around with that.

I changed the duration of this from 1 min./level to 1 round/level. I think that will keep it from being too overpowered.

Word of Challenge - Again, another compulsion spell that doesn't allow a save and this one can AOE kill people too

I changed the wording of this spell a tad, plus I weakened it a bit. Only creatures of 2 HD or less can now be killed by it. Also, keep in mind that the Royal Heir puts himself at risk with this spell, since in order to kill a lot of low level targets with it, he first has to let all of them to a swing at him in the same round.

Word of Rebuke - This is pretty good; 7d6 non elemental damage no save

I changed this so that non-lawful creatures can make a Will save for half damage.

Words of Soverenty - Again, crazy. Good for killing low level guys and high level guys; Area of effect kill spell because. paralyzed = dead. Also, stunned if they MAKE their save? really good.
I weakened this slightly. It can now only kill creatures of 4 HD or less, and higher level creatures that fail their save are paralyzed for less rounds.

An interesting twist, but I don't see it working very well. A wisecracking rogue, an inexperienced wizard, a restless barbarian, and a ... king? I see all sorts of weird roleplay interactions like "sorry I have to stop adventuring to run my kingdom" or "why don't I put the resources of my nation into solving this problem? Call in 20 trapfinders, you can put your thieves Tools away, Steve" not to mention "You should listen to me and do MY plan, I'm your ruler".
I should clarify that this class isn't really supposed to be a king or ruler. The Royal Heir is only supposed to be someone who will one-day become king. He may have access to a lot of wealth, and he might have some authority and responsibilities, but the actual king or emperor or regent, or whoever is always there to keep things in check. Due to this, the Royal Heir is free to go out adventuring. (Think of Edward the Black Prince in A Knight's Tale.)

Royal Heir - Updated download (http://uploadline.com/files/3497141/Royal_Heir_Class.pdf.html)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Positronica 09-10-07, 02:04 AM	So, I'm going to be running a new campaign soon where I'm going to be having one of the players play the heir to the throne of a fading, yet still strong empire. I decided to try to create a new class that would be suited to that type of character, rather than trying to force the character into a combination of other classes. (I'm sure there's probably other non-standard classes out there that would have fit the bill, but I decided to just take a crack at it myself.) The class is only specific to the Lawfull alignment, and could be played by both a good or an evil would-be-sovereign. I gave the class a limited spell list and tried to come up with spells and special abilities that reflected the idea of a prince or heir out adventuring. I think the class would work well for someone trying to play a King Aurthur or Aragorn type character. I also added a few spells, such as the ability to commune with one's dead ancestors, which would allow for some unique roleplaying opportunities. Anyways, you can download a PDF of the class at the following link. I formatted everything to match the PHB, because I'm obsessive that way. I'd like to hear anyone's comments or suggestions on what they like and what they think I should change. See post later in thread for updated download
ZapRowsdower 09-10-07, 04:23 AM	Piece by piece... Really nice looking PDF Good skill list, great skill points/level, and the Heir can be an Int caster if he wants to be. Tons and tons of skills. Favored Destiny is a pretty useful ability High education is decent Bonus feat, from anywhere? this is very very good Inspire Leadership is pretty good Ablility boost can be decent but not as great as a real class ability Choosing your spellcasting stat is handy but not unbalanced The approval rating chart is laughable; how are the peasants supposed to know exactly what the king is doing when he's off adventuring? How is the king supposed to know what the peasants think of him? light crossbow is a simple weapon Spells: Very few spells per day; most of the time the Heir will have to be a substandard fighter until every once in a while he breaks out some once per day abilities. Kind of interesting concept but can be pretty frustrating for the player. Custom spells: Dispel Magic as a 1st level spell! Imbue Crown is very good (especially because it doesn't limit you to Heir Spells or a particular spell level) Inspire Endurance is very good as well, +1/level to a bunch of skills for 1 hour/level! Mark of Ascendancy is a good curse spell, and doesn't allow a save Mark of Destiny and Greater Mark of Destiny are the same spell level; also why not use death ward instead. Seal of Banishment is unclear; it is a compulsion spell that doesn't allow a save (huh) but it has what to do if the creature disobeys orders; huh? Seal of Obligation - Just use Gaes/Quest! Words of Authority - "Can't be dispelled" is pretty strong, I wouldn't play around with that. Word of Challenge - Again, another compulsion spell that doesn't allow a save and this one can AOE kill people too Word of Command - AOE command people, 1d4 HD per level (!), and works on undead too Word of Defiance - read this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/protectionFromSpells.htm) and compare Words of Opposition - also this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mindBlank.htm) Words of Rebuke - This is pretty good; 7d6 non elemental damage no save Words of Soverenty - Again, crazy. Good for killing low level guys and high level guys; Area of effect kill spell because. paralyzed = dead. Also, stunned if they MAKE their save? really good. The heir needs stuff he can do when he's out of 1 use/day abilities. Full casters have limited uses on their abilities too, but they can fall back on their lower level spells much more easily than the Heir can. I think some of the spells are overpowered or need to be rethought. Coming up with custom spells can be fun but why not just use the ones in the PHB? Tons of the Heir's abilities tend to be very good, but have only one or two uses per day. What you might see if you someone plays as a Heir is that they want to rest and recover their abilities A LOT, because they are so powerful and gone so quickly. An interesting twist, but I don't see it working very well. A wisecracking rogue, an inexperienced wizard, a restless barbarian, and a ... king? I see all sorts of weird roleplay interactions like "sorry I have to stop adventuring to run my kingdom" or "why don't I put the resources of my nation into solving this problem? Call in 20 trapfinders, you can put your thieves Tools away, Steve" not to mention "You should listen to me and do MY plan, I'm your ruler". What I do see is this as a Prestiege Class of some sort. It requires you to have some sort of kingdom or fiefdom, the feat leadership, and a certain collection of skills/heritage. You would get some divine spells, and some kingly powers. I just don't see it working as a base class at all.
Positronica 09-10-07, 12:44 PM	Ok, thanks for the critique, ZapRowsdower. I agree with some of the issues you raised, and I've gone through and made some changes. The class probably still isn't much to your liking, since I didn't agree with everything you brought up, but I think its approaching a playable state for the specific campaign I'll be running. Piece by piece... Really nice looking PDF Good skill list, great skill points/level, and the Heir can be an Int caster if he wants to be. Tons and tons of skills. I want the royal heir to have the potential to be a very intelligent and knowledgable character. Think of the prince in the movie Flesh+Blood. Bonus feat, from anywhere? this is very very good I was afraid this might be too powerful, but the royal heir gets this unrestricted feat at only 2nd level, so he won't meet the prerequisites of a lot of the really nice feats. That being said, I may still change this to be restricted to only fighter bonus feats. Ablility boost can be decent but not as great as a real class ability Well, I guess that depends on what the class ability is. My goal with the two +2 ability boosts was to give the class some flexibilty. If both of the increases are put into STR, the low BAB won't be quite as big of hinderance in melee combat, or the two ability boosts could be used to try and get additional bonus spell slots. Also, the player would have more options during initial ability stat assignment, since he would know he'd be getting some decent increases over the course of the first 10 levels. light crossbow is a simple weapon Thanks, I fixed that. Spells: Very few spells per day; most of the time the Heir will have to be a substandard fighter until every once in a while he breaks out some once per day abilities. Kind of interesting concept but can be pretty frustrating for the player. I've gone back and increased the spells per day a significant amount. At level 10 a Royal Heir will now have 14.5 spells per day, before adding in any bonus spell slots. I'm counting the psuedo slot providing by Imbue Crown as only half a spell since at most it would only be avaiable to the Royal Heir every other day. Inspire Endurance is very good as well, +1/level to a bunch of skills for 1 hour/level! In my campaign the party will spend a lot of time travalling over rough terrain over long distances, often while being pursued, so I felt that such a spell would come in handy. Also, keep in mind that while the bonuses are nice, there is an 8 hour penalty once the spell expires. Mark of Ascendancy is a good curse spell, and doesn't allow a save I'm thinking of changing the curse in this spell from -4 to -2. I think -4 might be too strong, but I need to think about it more. Mark of Destiny and Greater Mark of Destiny are the same spell level; also why not use death ward instead. I fixed the same level typo. I didn't use death ward, just to put in some variety. Mark of Destiny doesn't protect against as much stuff as Death Ward, but it has a much longer duration. Plus Greater Mark of Destiny gives the protection to nearby allies, too. Also, as a DM I'm not a big fan of using death magic against the players, since its always such a crap-shoot way to suddenly off a character. I wanted to give them an easy way to counter a lot of death magic that fit with the character and setting. Seal of Banishment is unclear; it is a compulsion spell that doesn't allow a save (huh) but it has what to do if the creature disobeys orders; huh? I fixed the text of this to make it more clear. To clarify, the target is not forced to retreat, he is simply given the choice of either retreating or taking damage. Perhaps I shouldn't classify it as a compulsion spell, but I still want it to have the [Mind-Affecting] descriptor. Seal of Obligation - Just use Gaes/Quest! I thought about that, but I wanted a spell that would allow the Royal Heir to force someone to be indebted to him, but would allow him to define how that debt can be repayed at a later date. Word of Authority - "Can't be dispelled" is pretty strong, I wouldn't play around with that. I changed the duration of this from 1 min./level to 1 round/level. I think that will keep it from being too overpowered. Word of Challenge - Again, another compulsion spell that doesn't allow a save and this one can AOE kill people too I changed the wording of this spell a tad, plus I weakened it a bit. Only creatures of 2 HD or less can now be killed by it. Also, keep in mind that the Royal Heir puts himself at risk with this spell, since in order to kill a lot of low level targets with it, he first has to let all of them to a swing at him in the same round. Word of Rebuke - This is pretty good; 7d6 non elemental damage no save I changed this so that non-lawful creatures can make a Will save for half damage. Words of Soverenty - Again, crazy. Good for killing low level guys and high level guys; Area of effect kill spell because. paralyzed = dead. Also, stunned if they MAKE their save? really good. I weakened this slightly. It can now only kill creatures of 4 HD or less, and higher level creatures that fail their save are paralyzed for less rounds. An interesting twist, but I don't see it working very well. A wisecracking rogue, an inexperienced wizard, a restless barbarian, and a ... king? I see all sorts of weird roleplay interactions like "sorry I have to stop adventuring to run my kingdom" or "why don't I put the resources of my nation into solving this problem? Call in 20 trapfinders, you can put your thieves Tools away, Steve" not to mention "You should listen to me and do MY plan, I'm your ruler". I should clarify that this class isn't really supposed to be a king or ruler. The Royal Heir is only supposed to be someone who will one-day become king. He may have access to a lot of wealth, and he might have some authority and responsibilities, but the actual king or emperor or regent, or whoever is always there to keep things in check. Due to this, the Royal Heir is free to go out adventuring. (Think of Edward the Black Prince in A Knight's Tale.) Royal Heir - Updated download (http://uploadline.com/files/3497141/Royal_Heir_Class.pdf.html)