New HP system [Archive] - Wizards Community

New HP system [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gideon_Gideonson
03-02-07, 12:08 PM I’d like to suggest a new method of dealing with HP. The “I get hit…big deal, I’ve got 40hp left” system leaves something to be desired, but many fixes are either far to complicated or much to deadly. I think I’ve devised a system where damage actually means something, but where no character is going to be killed instantly by a lucky hit by a kobold. Please critique/offer suggestion/etc.

Under my system, each character will have two separate pools of HP, representing their ability to resist damage and their life, respectively. The first die is added to their “resistance pool,” and the second is added to their “life pool.” Here are the Hit Dice conversions:

d4: d2+d2 (average 1.5 + 1.5, meaning 3 as opposed to 2.5)
d6: d4+d2 (average 2.5 + 1.5, meaning 4 as opposed to 3.5)
d8: d4+d4 (average 2.5 + 2.5, meaning 5 as opposed to 4.5)
d10: d6+d4 (average 3.5 + 2.5, meaning 6 as opposed to 5.5)
d12: d8+d4 (average 4.5 + 2.5, meaning 7 as opposed to 6.5)

Resistance Pool: Add your Con bonus to each roll
Life Pool: Add you Con score to this number, but only at first level

Average level 1 hp (assuming 10 con):
d4: 2+12
d6: 4+12
d8: 4+14
d10: 6+14
d12: 8+14

Resistance Pool: Heals at the rate of 1 hp/level/hour. Magical healing applies normally.
Life Pool: Heals at the rate of 1 hp/level/day. When the character is targeted by magical healing, the normal effect takes place (restoring Resistance Pool hp), and the character regains 2 Life Points per spell level.

Injury: When the character begins to take damage in Life Pool, he must make a fortitude save (DC 5+total damage taken in Life Pool) or become fatigue. Every time he is damaged in his Life Pool, he must make another save. If a character fails an additional Fortitude save, he becomes exhausted.

Normal rules for removing fatigue and exhaustion apply, but if the damage is not healed it still counts against the character for subsequent saves.

EX: Joe, our level 1 commoner (Con 10), has 2+12 Hp. He gets into a fight with Fred, who stabs him with a pitchfork, dealing 4 damage. Joe takes 2 damage in his Resistance Pool, but has no additional hp in that pool to lose. Therefore, he takes 2 damage in his Life Pool and must make a DC 7 (5 + 2) or become fatigued. Let’s assume he makes his save.

One hour later, Joe trips down the stairs, taking 7 damage. His Resistance Pool has regenerated 1 point of damage by now, so it absorbs one point of the attack, which now deals 6 damage to Joe’s Life Pool. Now Joe is hurting…he’s gone from 10 down to 2, and must make a Fortitude save DC 13 (5 + total amount lost) or become fatigued.

Death and Dying: When your life pool is dropped to 0, you are staggered. If it drops to -1, you are dying. Dying rules apply normally, except that you die when you reach –hp equal to your Constitution score.

Advantages: Low HD classes gain added survivability at lower levels, but HP averages out in mid game.

Fighters and barbarians have much more resistance to damage, and can fight longer and recover faster. Basically, the system gives melee classes more durability, somewhat balancing them against casters, who suffer somewhat under this method.

Slightly more realistic than the traditional HP system.

Disadvantages: Combat takes longer, since characters have slightly more HP.

More numbers to keep track of.

Low HD classes will spend more time fatigued and exhausted, especially at low levels, although they will live longer overall.

Could go either way: This system weakens casters, but improves melee classes.

Characters can no longer easily take on encounter after encounter without rest if those encounters are challenging (due to the slow recovery time of their Life Pool)

Characters can easily recover from easy battles (due to the faster recovery time of their Resistance Pool)

So...what do you think?
FoxmanFX
03-02-07, 01:19 PM Have you checked out the wound/vitality system from the unearthed arcana? It's been play tested and works quite well if thats what your looking for (also used as the primary 'hp-system' in the starwars d20 system).
Gideon_Gideonson
03-02-07, 01:22 PM I have. What I dislike about that system is the way that someone can go from living to dead with a single lucky strike. I don't like the way that crit damage goes straight to vitality points.
Arcade
03-02-07, 03:37 PM You could always use Wounds and Vitality and ignore the critical damage part?

One thing with your system (and the original Wounds and Vitality) that I don't understand is why life points (wounds) recover based on your level. It makes slightly more sense in your system, but it still seems wierd. A first level commoner takes about 12 days to recover all their life points. A 10th level commoner takes about two and a half days. Resistance (vitality) scales healing with your level though- a first level commoner takes (on average) the exact same amount of time to recover all their resistance as a 10th level commoner.
Gideon_Gideonson
03-02-07, 04:05 PM Well, the other reason for not using the wounds system is that by that system a character has lost almost all of their hp before it kicks in (wound points=you Con score). That's a lot of damage without an effect. Let's put it this way...if you fell down a staircase, you'd be hurting, and probably shaken up for a while. But you wouldn't be almost dead (usually, that is).

My system includes the wearying effects of damage and extended combat before the point of death.

One thing with your system (and the original Wounds and Vitality) that I don't understand is why life points (wounds) recover based on your level. It makes slightly more sense in your system, but it still seems wierd. A first level commoner takes about 12 days to recover all their life points. A 10th level commoner takes about two and a half days. Resistance (vitality) scales healing with your level though- a first level commoner takes (on average) the exact same amount of time to recover all their resistance as a 10th level commoner.

Well, it's standard issue for hp to heal faster the higher level you are. If it didn't, suddenly that lost hp becomes a huge deal when you've lost, say, 50 of it. I guess the high-level guys are just more used to shrugging off the effects of injuries...

Also, a 10th level commoner regains Resistance 10x as fast as the level 1, not at the same rate.

Here's what I originally wrote:

Resistance Pool: Heals at the rate of 1 hp/level/hour. Magical healing applies normally.
Life Pool: Heals at the rate of 1 hp/level/day. When the character is targeted by magical healing, the normal effect takes place (restoring Resistance Pool hp), and the character regains 2 Life Points per spell level.

See? Each is 1hp/level/period of time. So 1 hp per level. A level 1 commoner heals 1, a level 10 commoner heals 10.
Arcade
03-02-07, 09:43 PM I was thinking in percents, instead. Let's put it another way:

A 1st level barbarian with 14 CON has, on average, 6.5 resistance and 16.5 life. A 10th level barbarian has 65 resistance and 39 life.

To heal resistance from 0 to full takes about the same amount of time no matter what level you are. The 1st level barbarian heals all their resistance in about 6.5 hours (1/hour for 6.5 hours = 6.5). The 10th level barbarian has 65 resistance, which means they heal all their resistance in about 6.5 hours (10/hour for 6.5 hours = 65). It takes the same amount of time. And in the original hit point system, natural healing scales this way as well.

Now to heal Life, this 1st level barbarian needs about 16.5 days (1/day for 16.5 days) to go from 0 to full. However, the 10th level barbarian needs only 3.9 days (10/day for 3.9 days) to heal their life to full. And if you use a class with a d2 as the life die, this difference is amplified even more.

My point is the ratio at which you gain life back seems too large- it should scale at the same rate as you gain life, perhaps at 1/(2 levels)/day.
Gideon_Gideonson
03-02-07, 10:08 PM Hmmm...That's actually a pretty good idea. I'll put that in. 1/2 levels/day, minimum 1.

Now...one more question. I just realized that once you fail your save against fatigue, you'll pretty much auto-fail your next, harder save against exhaustion. How should I work this? Should saves against exhaustion only apply once 1/2 of your Life is gone?
lastknightleft
03-06-07, 04:27 PM Actually, I think you're on the right track, but that the fatigue hits a little to early. Even when you start to hurt badly your adrenaline will keep you going for a while, so i think the fatigue should kick in at half your life points rather than the very beginning. That also takes care of the exhaustion problem, cause once your adrenaline fails to keep you going, you crash pretty quickly.
Gideon_Gideonson
03-06-07, 07:30 PM Hmm...that's not a bad idea, but I'll have to think about it. The reason for the fatigue hitting so early is that most classes have much more Resistance than Life, and it heals quite fast. Plus, with my method, the save is low enough to keep plugging away until about that point. Makes High-Fort more useful, and helps balance mages a bit more, since they tire faster.

On another note, because of some input on the Giant in the Playground forums, I've decided that all damage dealt to a flat-footed or immobilized foe goes straight to Life points. This of course renders sneak attack very powerful. To powerful, in fact. Any ideas on how to deal with this?
stargate525
03-06-07, 07:56 PM On another note, because of some input on the Giant in the Playground forums, I've decided that all damage dealt to a flat-footed or immobilized foe goes straight to Life points. This of course renders sneak attack very powerful. To powerful, in fact. Any ideas on how to deal with this?
flatfooted or immobilized, but not flanked, entangled, or otherwise denied their bonus to Dex... seems perfectly fine to me.
Arcade
03-07-07, 09:08 AM I would suggest allowing one point per die to hit life, and the rest affect resistance. I would do the same with any auto-hit magic as well in such situations- the minimum damage possible goes to life (ie. 5d6 fireball does 5 life, level 5 magic missile does 6 life) and the rest goes to resistance. My rule of thumb is that any damage that isn't affected by critical modifiers under the normal rules use this modifer and all damage that is affected by critical modifiers under the normal rules affects life as you've given.
Gideon_Gideonson
03-07-07, 10:13 AM Another good idea. But taking it all the way has some drastic repurcussions when combined with things like high strength/etc. That's basically making everything do more damage, and a powerattack for 2d6+40 straight to life AND resistance is going to hurt. A lot.
Arcade
03-07-07, 11:34 AM I don't think I made my last point clear. Except in cases like sneak attack and auto-hit spells, you never affect both life and resistance. If you power attack for 2d6 + 40, that will go into one pool or the other. However, a sneak attack does have the potential to affect both pools since we are liimiting the life damage the sneak attack damage can do.

i.e. 5th level rogue (3d6 sneak attack) with str14 and power attacking at +3 with longsword. Let's assume damage is all 5 on the d8 rolls and all 4 on the d6 rolls. He hits a flat footed opponent and his damage is 22 (5 + 2 + 3 + 12). However, 12 points of that is sneak attack, so instead only 3 points of sneak attack go to life and the rest to resistance, to make it 13 points life and 9 points resistance (which may end up going to life if it reduces the opponent's resistance to 0).
Now, he attacks again next round with flanking, but his opponent is not flat footed. Again, the damage is 19, but this will all go to resistance.
Gideon_Gideonson
03-07-07, 01:23 PM Ah. That makes sense now.

Good idea.
IronMouse
03-08-07, 09:23 AM It's a very interesting system, I have to admit...

One question, how do the feats toughness and improve toughness work under that system?
Gideon_Gideonson
03-08-07, 01:51 PM I'm not sure. I think Toughness adds three to both, and IT adds one to both.

Since both feats were only so-so to begin with, this makes them a better choice.
Saric
03-09-07, 11:40 AM I have. What I dislike about that system is the way that someone can go from living to dead with a single lucky strike. I don't like the way that crit damage goes straight to vitality points.

I had the same problem, because the wound points threshold is too little. because at higher levels, no matter what, any average attack worth its salt will deplete all your wound points immediately taking you to disabled/ dying.

So I invented a fix if you like it, feel free to use it. It seems more simple than yours though :angel:

I left the system the exact same but change the quantity of wound points lost on critical hits. I also removed the lowering of critical threat for higher multiplier weapons as well. Thus a greataxe deals x3 damage on criticals and threatens only on natural 20's instead of 19-20 like the variant says.

Using the damage value system the number of wound points lost = damage value = damage divided by 5 (rounded up). So if I dealt 49 points of damage on a successful critical hit, you lose 10 wound points.

Using this method gave people with higher damage weapons and attacks more wound point damage on a critical hit, and doesn't one-shot most players unless the damage is exceedingly insane. but if you are taking that much damage in one critical hit, you probably were going to die anyways....

It is scalable for higher level characters, since said kobold who gets a lucky crit probably isn't going to fully take all your wound points down in a crit, and a higher level character should be more effective at making critical strikes more deadly emphasizing his experiences in battle of where to strike best.

You can also use it for situations that you as dm deem worthy enough to affect the physical wound points such as falling damage or taking the full brunt of a fireball (rolling a natural 1). I usually say that any damage that requires a save and you roll a natural 1 goes to your wound points via the damage value formula.

I agree that damage should mean something, but you should also remember what hit points are supposed to represent.

from the srd: "What Hit Points Represent
Hit points mean two things in the game world: the ability to take physical punishment and keep going, and the ability to turn a serious blow into a less serious one."

This is already taken into account by the vitality point or hit point system and is why fighters/barbarians get a bigger hd than wizards. And hopefully the fighter has more constitution than said wizard, granting him more wound points. and has more feats to spend on the likes of toughness and diehard to enhance his staying power.

Just because he has 40 hit/vitality points left doesn't mean he hasn't been hit, it means he's jumped back in the knick of time, just getting scraped or bruised.Or his armor is dented and he has gashes on his side. he's getting tired as his reflexes are getting slower he's almost on the brink of fatigue and out of breath, how much more can he take before things start getting ugly? (aka losing wound points)

I hope this helps you. Happy gaming!
Segan
03-09-07, 01:44 PM I like the idea. But I have got a question:

How does massive damage works with that system? I would imagine that you have to define the treshold for massive damage for it to apply. Maybe one single attack that deals an amount of damage equal to resistance pool + 1/2 life pool results in a Fortitude Saving Throw. Failing means you die.
Gideon_Gideonson
03-09-07, 03:36 PM Saric...that's an interesting version, but I'd like to keep the crits/crit ranges/damage the same. Plus, as you said:

from the srd: "What Hit Points Represent
Hit points mean two things in the game world: the ability to take physical punishment and keep going, and the ability to turn a serious blow into a less serious one."

Yep. I've got that. Resistance fits the second perfectly, and the Life Pool represents the amount of actual damage you can take :D

Segan: Well, I normally don't use Massive damage rules, since they always seemed a bit odd to me (and they're not good for small races). I know in D20 modern it works as usual, but only once it deals you Con damage in your Life Pool. There's no massive damage for Resistance.

Don't know how it would work in standard D&D though.
Firestar27
03-09-07, 04:51 PM in your first post, it seems like your examples have 10 extra life points. The commoner has 2+12 hp, when, if he has a 10 constitution and average dice rolls (2.5 rounded down to 2), it would be 2+2 hp. Any reason for this?
Saric
03-09-07, 04:55 PM Saric...that's an interesting version, but I'd like to keep the crits/crit ranges/damage the same.

the main reason I decided on keeping the crit ranges is due to the tactical edge when choosing weapons. It states this in the dmg (p26) in the sidebar of behind the curtain critical hits; that the game was designed with making swords a precise weapon meaning you crit more often with them but should you get hit with an axe, its more devestating despite its a bit harder to land a critical hit with. By using the changed crit ranges, that aspect has just been nullified.
Gideon_Gideonson
03-09-07, 05:26 PM Firestar:

Life Pool: Add you Con score to this number, but only at first level

Guess you missed it :D
EpicEvokerElf
06-12-07, 05:49 PM I think I like it. So, a 4th level wizard with 16 con has 3d2+2+16 life, and 2+3d2+12 resistance?
Gideon_Gideonson
06-12-07, 10:50 PM Yes. Which may seem like a lot compared to the fighter, but the gap will expand as the levels increase.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gideon_Gideonson 03-02-07, 12:08 PM	I’d like to suggest a new method of dealing with HP. The “I get hit…big deal, I’ve got 40hp left” system leaves something to be desired, but many fixes are either far to complicated or much to deadly. I think I’ve devised a system where damage actually means something, but where no character is going to be killed instantly by a lucky hit by a kobold. Please critique/offer suggestion/etc. Under my system, each character will have two separate pools of HP, representing their ability to resist damage and their life, respectively. The first die is added to their “resistance pool,” and the second is added to their “life pool.” Here are the Hit Dice conversions: d4: d2+d2 (average 1.5 + 1.5, meaning 3 as opposed to 2.5) d6: d4+d2 (average 2.5 + 1.5, meaning 4 as opposed to 3.5) d8: d4+d4 (average 2.5 + 2.5, meaning 5 as opposed to 4.5) d10: d6+d4 (average 3.5 + 2.5, meaning 6 as opposed to 5.5) d12: d8+d4 (average 4.5 + 2.5, meaning 7 as opposed to 6.5) Resistance Pool: Add your Con bonus to each roll Life Pool: Add you Con score to this number, but only at first level Average level 1 hp (assuming 10 con): d4: 2+12 d6: 4+12 d8: 4+14 d10: 6+14 d12: 8+14 Resistance Pool: Heals at the rate of 1 hp/level/hour. Magical healing applies normally. Life Pool: Heals at the rate of 1 hp/level/day. When the character is targeted by magical healing, the normal effect takes place (restoring Resistance Pool hp), and the character regains 2 Life Points per spell level. Injury: When the character begins to take damage in Life Pool, he must make a fortitude save (DC 5+total damage taken in Life Pool) or become fatigue. Every time he is damaged in his Life Pool, he must make another save. If a character fails an additional Fortitude save, he becomes exhausted. Normal rules for removing fatigue and exhaustion apply, but if the damage is not healed it still counts against the character for subsequent saves. EX: Joe, our level 1 commoner (Con 10), has 2+12 Hp. He gets into a fight with Fred, who stabs him with a pitchfork, dealing 4 damage. Joe takes 2 damage in his Resistance Pool, but has no additional hp in that pool to lose. Therefore, he takes 2 damage in his Life Pool and must make a DC 7 (5 + 2) or become fatigued. Let’s assume he makes his save. One hour later, Joe trips down the stairs, taking 7 damage. His Resistance Pool has regenerated 1 point of damage by now, so it absorbs one point of the attack, which now deals 6 damage to Joe’s Life Pool. Now Joe is hurting…he’s gone from 10 down to 2, and must make a Fortitude save DC 13 (5 + total amount lost) or become fatigued. Death and Dying: When your life pool is dropped to 0, you are staggered. If it drops to -1, you are dying. Dying rules apply normally, except that you die when you reach –hp equal to your Constitution score. Advantages: Low HD classes gain added survivability at lower levels, but HP averages out in mid game. Fighters and barbarians have much more resistance to damage, and can fight longer and recover faster. Basically, the system gives melee classes more durability, somewhat balancing them against casters, who suffer somewhat under this method. Slightly more realistic than the traditional HP system. Disadvantages: Combat takes longer, since characters have slightly more HP. More numbers to keep track of. Low HD classes will spend more time fatigued and exhausted, especially at low levels, although they will live longer overall. Could go either way: This system weakens casters, but improves melee classes. Characters can no longer easily take on encounter after encounter without rest if those encounters are challenging (due to the slow recovery time of their Life Pool) Characters can easily recover from easy battles (due to the faster recovery time of their Resistance Pool) So...what do you think?
FoxmanFX 03-02-07, 01:19 PM	Have you checked out the wound/vitality system from the unearthed arcana? It's been play tested and works quite well if thats what your looking for (also used as the primary 'hp-system' in the starwars d20 system).
Gideon_Gideonson 03-02-07, 01:22 PM	I have. What I dislike about that system is the way that someone can go from living to dead with a single lucky strike. I don't like the way that crit damage goes straight to vitality points.
Arcade 03-02-07, 03:37 PM	You could always use Wounds and Vitality and ignore the critical damage part? One thing with your system (and the original Wounds and Vitality) that I don't understand is why life points (wounds) recover based on your level. It makes slightly more sense in your system, but it still seems wierd. A first level commoner takes about 12 days to recover all their life points. A 10th level commoner takes about two and a half days. Resistance (vitality) scales healing with your level though- a first level commoner takes (on average) the exact same amount of time to recover all their resistance as a 10th level commoner.
Gideon_Gideonson 03-02-07, 04:05 PM	Well, the other reason for not using the wounds system is that by that system a character has lost almost all of their hp before it kicks in (wound points=you Con score). That's a lot of damage without an effect. Let's put it this way...if you fell down a staircase, you'd be hurting, and probably shaken up for a while. But you wouldn't be almost dead (usually, that is). My system includes the wearying effects of damage and extended combat before the point of death. One thing with your system (and the original Wounds and Vitality) that I don't understand is why life points (wounds) recover based on your level. It makes slightly more sense in your system, but it still seems wierd. A first level commoner takes about 12 days to recover all their life points. A 10th level commoner takes about two and a half days. Resistance (vitality) scales healing with your level though- a first level commoner takes (on average) the exact same amount of time to recover all their resistance as a 10th level commoner. Well, it's standard issue for hp to heal faster the higher level you are. If it didn't, suddenly that lost hp becomes a huge deal when you've lost, say, 50 of it. I guess the high-level guys are just more used to shrugging off the effects of injuries... Also, a 10th level commoner regains Resistance 10x as fast as the level 1, not at the same rate. Here's what I originally wrote: Resistance Pool: Heals at the rate of 1 hp/level/hour. Magical healing applies normally. Life Pool: Heals at the rate of 1 hp/level/day. When the character is targeted by magical healing, the normal effect takes place (restoring Resistance Pool hp), and the character regains 2 Life Points per spell level. See? Each is 1hp/level/period of time. So 1 hp per level. A level 1 commoner heals 1, a level 10 commoner heals 10.
Arcade 03-02-07, 09:43 PM	I was thinking in percents, instead. Let's put it another way: A 1st level barbarian with 14 CON has, on average, 6.5 resistance and 16.5 life. A 10th level barbarian has 65 resistance and 39 life. To heal resistance from 0 to full takes about the same amount of time no matter what level you are. The 1st level barbarian heals all their resistance in about 6.5 hours (1/hour for 6.5 hours = 6.5). The 10th level barbarian has 65 resistance, which means they heal all their resistance in about 6.5 hours (10/hour for 6.5 hours = 65). It takes the same amount of time. And in the original hit point system, natural healing scales this way as well. Now to heal Life, this 1st level barbarian needs about 16.5 days (1/day for 16.5 days) to go from 0 to full. However, the 10th level barbarian needs only 3.9 days (10/day for 3.9 days) to heal their life to full. And if you use a class with a d2 as the life die, this difference is amplified even more. My point is the ratio at which you gain life back seems too large- it should scale at the same rate as you gain life, perhaps at 1/(2 levels)/day.
Gideon_Gideonson 03-02-07, 10:08 PM	Hmmm...That's actually a pretty good idea. I'll put that in. 1/2 levels/day, minimum 1. Now...one more question. I just realized that once you fail your save against fatigue, you'll pretty much auto-fail your next, harder save against exhaustion. How should I work this? Should saves against exhaustion only apply once 1/2 of your Life is gone?
lastknightleft 03-06-07, 04:27 PM	Actually, I think you're on the right track, but that the fatigue hits a little to early. Even when you start to hurt badly your adrenaline will keep you going for a while, so i think the fatigue should kick in at half your life points rather than the very beginning. That also takes care of the exhaustion problem, cause once your adrenaline fails to keep you going, you crash pretty quickly.
Gideon_Gideonson 03-06-07, 07:30 PM	Hmm...that's not a bad idea, but I'll have to think about it. The reason for the fatigue hitting so early is that most classes have much more Resistance than Life, and it heals quite fast. Plus, with my method, the save is low enough to keep plugging away until about that point. Makes High-Fort more useful, and helps balance mages a bit more, since they tire faster. On another note, because of some input on the Giant in the Playground forums, I've decided that all damage dealt to a flat-footed or immobilized foe goes straight to Life points. This of course renders sneak attack very powerful. To powerful, in fact. Any ideas on how to deal with this?
stargate525 03-06-07, 07:56 PM	On another note, because of some input on the Giant in the Playground forums, I've decided that all damage dealt to a flat-footed or immobilized foe goes straight to Life points. This of course renders sneak attack very powerful. To powerful, in fact. Any ideas on how to deal with this? flatfooted or immobilized, but not flanked, entangled, or otherwise denied their bonus to Dex... seems perfectly fine to me.
Arcade 03-07-07, 09:08 AM	I would suggest allowing one point per die to hit life, and the rest affect resistance. I would do the same with any auto-hit magic as well in such situations- the minimum damage possible goes to life (ie. 5d6 fireball does 5 life, level 5 magic missile does 6 life) and the rest goes to resistance. My rule of thumb is that any damage that isn't affected by critical modifiers under the normal rules use this modifer and all damage that is affected by critical modifiers under the normal rules affects life as you've given.
Gideon_Gideonson 03-07-07, 10:13 AM	Another good idea. But taking it all the way has some drastic repurcussions when combined with things like high strength/etc. That's basically making everything do more damage, and a powerattack for 2d6+40 straight to life AND resistance is going to hurt. A lot.
Arcade 03-07-07, 11:34 AM	I don't think I made my last point clear. Except in cases like sneak attack and auto-hit spells, you never affect both life and resistance. If you power attack for 2d6 + 40, that will go into one pool or the other. However, a sneak attack does have the potential to affect both pools since we are liimiting the life damage the sneak attack damage can do. i.e. 5th level rogue (3d6 sneak attack) with str14 and power attacking at +3 with longsword. Let's assume damage is all 5 on the d8 rolls and all 4 on the d6 rolls. He hits a flat footed opponent and his damage is 22 (5 + 2 + 3 + 12). However, 12 points of that is sneak attack, so instead only 3 points of sneak attack go to life and the rest to resistance, to make it 13 points life and 9 points resistance (which may end up going to life if it reduces the opponent's resistance to 0). Now, he attacks again next round with flanking, but his opponent is not flat footed. Again, the damage is 19, but this will all go to resistance.
Gideon_Gideonson 03-07-07, 01:23 PM	Ah. That makes sense now. Good idea.
IronMouse 03-08-07, 09:23 AM	It's a very interesting system, I have to admit... One question, how do the feats toughness and improve toughness work under that system?
Gideon_Gideonson 03-08-07, 01:51 PM	I'm not sure. I think Toughness adds three to both, and IT adds one to both. Since both feats were only so-so to begin with, this makes them a better choice.
Saric 03-09-07, 11:40 AM	I have. What I dislike about that system is the way that someone can go from living to dead with a single lucky strike. I don't like the way that crit damage goes straight to vitality points. I had the same problem, because the wound points threshold is too little. because at higher levels, no matter what, any average attack worth its salt will deplete all your wound points immediately taking you to disabled/ dying. So I invented a fix if you like it, feel free to use it. It seems more simple than yours though :angel: I left the system the exact same but change the quantity of wound points lost on critical hits. I also removed the lowering of critical threat for higher multiplier weapons as well. Thus a greataxe deals x3 damage on criticals and threatens only on natural 20's instead of 19-20 like the variant says. Using the damage value system the number of wound points lost = damage value = damage divided by 5 (rounded up). So if I dealt 49 points of damage on a successful critical hit, you lose 10 wound points. Using this method gave people with higher damage weapons and attacks more wound point damage on a critical hit, and doesn't one-shot most players unless the damage is exceedingly insane. but if you are taking that much damage in one critical hit, you probably were going to die anyways.... It is scalable for higher level characters, since said kobold who gets a lucky crit probably isn't going to fully take all your wound points down in a crit, and a higher level character should be more effective at making critical strikes more deadly emphasizing his experiences in battle of where to strike best. You can also use it for situations that you as dm deem worthy enough to affect the physical wound points such as falling damage or taking the full brunt of a fireball (rolling a natural 1). I usually say that any damage that requires a save and you roll a natural 1 goes to your wound points via the damage value formula. I agree that damage should mean something, but you should also remember what hit points are supposed to represent. from the srd: "What Hit Points Represent Hit points mean two things in the game world: the ability to take physical punishment and keep going, and the ability to turn a serious blow into a less serious one." This is already taken into account by the vitality point or hit point system and is why fighters/barbarians get a bigger hd than wizards. And hopefully the fighter has more constitution than said wizard, granting him more wound points. and has more feats to spend on the likes of toughness and diehard to enhance his staying power. Just because he has 40 hit/vitality points left doesn't mean he hasn't been hit, it means he's jumped back in the knick of time, just getting scraped or bruised.Or his armor is dented and he has gashes on his side. he's getting tired as his reflexes are getting slower he's almost on the brink of fatigue and out of breath, how much more can he take before things start getting ugly? (aka losing wound points) I hope this helps you. Happy gaming!
Segan 03-09-07, 01:44 PM	I like the idea. But I have got a question: How does massive damage works with that system? I would imagine that you have to define the treshold for massive damage for it to apply. Maybe one single attack that deals an amount of damage equal to resistance pool + 1/2 life pool results in a Fortitude Saving Throw. Failing means you die.
Gideon_Gideonson 03-09-07, 03:36 PM	Saric...that's an interesting version, but I'd like to keep the crits/crit ranges/damage the same. Plus, as you said: from the srd: "What Hit Points Represent Hit points mean two things in the game world: the ability to take physical punishment and keep going, and the ability to turn a serious blow into a less serious one." Yep. I've got that. Resistance fits the second perfectly, and the Life Pool represents the amount of actual damage you can take :D Segan: Well, I normally don't use Massive damage rules, since they always seemed a bit odd to me (and they're not good for small races). I know in D20 modern it works as usual, but only once it deals you Con damage in your Life Pool. There's no massive damage for Resistance. Don't know how it would work in standard D&D though.
Firestar27 03-09-07, 04:51 PM	in your first post, it seems like your examples have 10 extra life points. The commoner has 2+12 hp, when, if he has a 10 constitution and average dice rolls (2.5 rounded down to 2), it would be 2+2 hp. Any reason for this?
Saric 03-09-07, 04:55 PM	Saric...that's an interesting version, but I'd like to keep the crits/crit ranges/damage the same. the main reason I decided on keeping the crit ranges is due to the tactical edge when choosing weapons. It states this in the dmg (p26) in the sidebar of behind the curtain critical hits; that the game was designed with making swords a precise weapon meaning you crit more often with them but should you get hit with an axe, its more devestating despite its a bit harder to land a critical hit with. By using the changed crit ranges, that aspect has just been nullified.
Gideon_Gideonson 03-09-07, 05:26 PM	Firestar: Life Pool: Add you Con score to this number, but only at first level Guess you missed it :D
EpicEvokerElf 06-12-07, 05:49 PM	I think I like it. So, a 4th level wizard with 16 con has 3d2+2+16 life, and 2+3d2+12 resistance?
Gideon_Gideonson 06-12-07, 10:50 PM	Yes. Which may seem like a lot compared to the fighter, but the gap will expand as the levels increase.