new magic system and a question [Archive] - Wizards Community

new magic system and a question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
halo299
10-10-04, 05:26 PM I started a game not to long ago in which I am using the magic system from the Wheel of Time game in place of the normal D&D magic. I’ve added a lot of new spells and talents to the system to keep many of the concepts of D&D in the game.

It is a low magic setting where spell casters are very rare but at the same time are much more powerful then standard D&D spell casters. It has worked great so far to help me define the setting and the spell casting player of the group so far loves the power and flexibility he has, even at low levels. And there is a sort of unspoken fear among the group about what will happen should they ever run afoul a truly powerful spell caster……

The system works great for me and if you want any information about it please let me know.

Now my question is; as I said the new magic system is working great, for wizards.

But I can not think of a single way to make any form of divine spell casting using this system.

I want to keep clerics in the game and make the followers of different gods distinct from one another but I can’t seem to find away to do it.

So far the best idea I’ve had is to grant clerics supernatural abilities based on their domains, and just leaving spell casting out of it. But defining all 20 something domains is going to be a lot of work.

If you have any ideas I would love to hear them.

Thanks.

:u:
azoun
10-10-04, 05:49 PM your campaign sounds really cool to me !

your domain abilities idea would work fine i guess... you want to give a new ability at each level to the cleric, right ? that's a lot of work, clearly !

maybe you can just give a new ability at level 1, 3, 5, ... (like the new spell levels for the classic DND cleric) ; it is just a suggestion, coz as a player i would love to have a new ability at each level !!!

are you planning to use the domains found in the PHB, or make your own ones ? and will it be a combination of domains for each cleric (like in the PHB : 2 domains), or just one domain ???
halo299
10-10-04, 09:55 PM I can’t decide if I want to grant abilities based on domains or if I want to do it based directly on the deity the cleric worships.

I am planning on granting these abilities every 3 or 5 levels and use the other levels to grant supernatural abilities that would otherwise not be in the game thanks to the foreign magic system. But are still important to the priest concept.

That is what I’m working with.

Another idea is to have sort of a divine prestige class and let the majority of NPC clergy be handled by other classes like experts or something, and letting incantations be the main source of divine magic.
Moriancumer
10-11-04, 12:19 PM I have been trying to adapt the D&D spells to change them to weaves.

I like the idea of variable levels for weaves and I think it is a better system than the standard D&D spell system. I am interested in what you have done for the talents as well.

I thought about trying to convert weaves to a spell point system as well, but that might make unbalance the game making magic users too flexible, so I still don't know if I am going to do it.

Please post or send me your work so far. I am very interested!
Thomar_of_Uointer
10-12-04, 06:47 PM Do you mean "weaves" as they were used in the old second edition campaign setting with ioun's stones which was set in the past?
azoun
10-12-04, 06:57 PM In the Wheel of Time rpg, "weaves" means spells.
amethal
10-13-04, 07:44 AM I have been trying to think of a way in which clerics can somehow take on the aspect of their deity a number of times per day.

The cleric of a war god would "take on" the aspect and become bigger, stronger and more menacing. His combat powers would improve.

The cleric of a nature god might be able to wildshape.

The cleric of the god of healing might take on a golden glow and gain the lay on hands ability.

However, this idea is also a lot of work, and I've never been able to get it right. I'd like to link it in to divine feats, with clerics getting bonus divine feats (with deity requirements) in the same way as fighters get bonus fighter feats.

Maybe it will give you some ideas.....
halo299
10-13-04, 08:04 AM For everyone who has ask me for more information about this, i am sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you, a lot of stuff came up and i haven't had the chance for a couple of days. but expect something by e-mail ether today or tomarrow.

I still don't know what i am going to do about divine spellcasting or the lack there of. so keep your ideas comeing. amethal, that was a good one BTW.

thanks again for your help

:u:
JohnSnow
10-22-04, 06:48 PM I'm working on something very similar to this myself, so I'd be interested in seeing what you've worked out.

Do you use the Initiate and Wilder classes from the WoT game? Or what? You said you invented new Talents: care to elaborate?

So far, my plan was to start with the basic system from Fantasy Flight's Midnight, which I actually think reflects the WoT magic system (per the novels) better than the "slot system" in the WoT game. Since the mechanics from Midnight are OGL, I'll describe them briefly for those who don't have the book.

"Spellcasting" is the result of a feat called, in the book, Magecraft. In Midnight characters with the Magecraft feat choose to be charismatic (CHA-based), hermetic (INT-based), or spiritual (WIS-based) casters. Such characters get spell energy equal to their casting ability bonus, and the ability to cast spells from the Universal school list (and they know 1 spell). Adding an additional "school" to your list of allowed spells takes a feat. There's a "Channeler" class that gets several bonus magic feats and extra spell energy equal to its level. (i.e. 3rd level channeler = +3 spell energy). They also get a "channeler ability" based on which spellcasting "tradition" they follow. The system of magic works as follows:

Learning spells costs XP and gold (can't recall costs).
Casting level = character level.
You can cast spells equal to Character Level/2 (round down).
+1 to level of spells castable IF Channeler Levels > levels in other classes.
No material components but expensive ones replaced by XP cost to cast.
Casting any spell takes spell energy equal to the spell level.
If you don't have enough spell energy left, you may cast the spell by taking spell damage equal to the spell energy cost of the spell after you use up your remaining spell energy (e.g. if you want to cast a 5th level spell and you only have 3 spell energy, you use up that spell energy and take 2 points of spell damage). Spell damage is temporary CON damage which can only be recovered with 8 hours of sleep. Obviously this can be VERY dangerous.

Basically, I'm thinking of turning the spells into Weaves (per WoT) and using WoT talents in place of the "school feats." I might require characters to spend XP to learn spells, unless they can watch the weave being cast and meet a required DC to learn it (15 + lowest level at which Weave can be cast?). That ALSO parallels how the characters in the WoT series seem to learn spells. I'd also have to add Air, Earth, Fire, Water, and Spirit descriptors to the spells from the PHB I wanted to port over. Finally, I could also use the rules and feats for the affinities (as described in the WoT game).

I believe the system in Midnight already has ways to lower the spell energy cost of a spell, including Spell Talismans (which lower the spell energy cost of spells, either individually or a group of them - angreal anyone?), linking (which can also raise effective caster level...), and so forth. The only thing I can't recall is whether it allows a single individual to "Overchannel," but I think it does. If not, that should be a relatively easy addition.

So, that's what I'm doing. I'm afraid I can't help with the system for clerics...other than to say, maybe you could use the granted power concept like Midnight does?
Mind Rogue
10-22-04, 11:24 PM This sounds kind of cool. Does WoT use some sort of spell point system and spells known? Does it allow for the possiblity of learning more spells, excluding those you learn as you gain a level? Hmmm, this sounds like something I would like to use, but that would take a lot of work to overhaul all the spells. Now if I borrow a little bit from the psionics...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
halo299 10-10-04, 05:26 PM	I started a game not to long ago in which I am using the magic system from the Wheel of Time game in place of the normal D&D magic. I’ve added a lot of new spells and talents to the system to keep many of the concepts of D&D in the game. It is a low magic setting where spell casters are very rare but at the same time are much more powerful then standard D&D spell casters. It has worked great so far to help me define the setting and the spell casting player of the group so far loves the power and flexibility he has, even at low levels. And there is a sort of unspoken fear among the group about what will happen should they ever run afoul a truly powerful spell caster…… The system works great for me and if you want any information about it please let me know. Now my question is; as I said the new magic system is working great, for wizards. But I can not think of a single way to make any form of divine spell casting using this system. I want to keep clerics in the game and make the followers of different gods distinct from one another but I can’t seem to find away to do it. So far the best idea I’ve had is to grant clerics supernatural abilities based on their domains, and just leaving spell casting out of it. But defining all 20 something domains is going to be a lot of work. If you have any ideas I would love to hear them. Thanks. :u:
azoun 10-10-04, 05:49 PM	your campaign sounds really cool to me ! your domain abilities idea would work fine i guess... you want to give a new ability at each level to the cleric, right ? that's a lot of work, clearly ! maybe you can just give a new ability at level 1, 3, 5, ... (like the new spell levels for the classic DND cleric) ; it is just a suggestion, coz as a player i would love to have a new ability at each level !!! are you planning to use the domains found in the PHB, or make your own ones ? and will it be a combination of domains for each cleric (like in the PHB : 2 domains), or just one domain ???
halo299 10-10-04, 09:55 PM	I can’t decide if I want to grant abilities based on domains or if I want to do it based directly on the deity the cleric worships. I am planning on granting these abilities every 3 or 5 levels and use the other levels to grant supernatural abilities that would otherwise not be in the game thanks to the foreign magic system. But are still important to the priest concept. That is what I’m working with. Another idea is to have sort of a divine prestige class and let the majority of NPC clergy be handled by other classes like experts or something, and letting incantations be the main source of divine magic.
Moriancumer 10-11-04, 12:19 PM	I have been trying to adapt the D&D spells to change them to weaves. I like the idea of variable levels for weaves and I think it is a better system than the standard D&D spell system. I am interested in what you have done for the talents as well. I thought about trying to convert weaves to a spell point system as well, but that might make unbalance the game making magic users too flexible, so I still don't know if I am going to do it. Please post or send me your work so far. I am very interested!
Thomar_of_Uointer 10-12-04, 06:47 PM	Do you mean "weaves" as they were used in the old second edition campaign setting with ioun's stones which was set in the past?
azoun 10-12-04, 06:57 PM	In the Wheel of Time rpg, "weaves" means spells.
amethal 10-13-04, 07:44 AM	I have been trying to think of a way in which clerics can somehow take on the aspect of their deity a number of times per day. The cleric of a war god would "take on" the aspect and become bigger, stronger and more menacing. His combat powers would improve. The cleric of a nature god might be able to wildshape. The cleric of the god of healing might take on a golden glow and gain the lay on hands ability. However, this idea is also a lot of work, and I've never been able to get it right. I'd like to link it in to divine feats, with clerics getting bonus divine feats (with deity requirements) in the same way as fighters get bonus fighter feats. Maybe it will give you some ideas.....
halo299 10-13-04, 08:04 AM	For everyone who has ask me for more information about this, i am sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you, a lot of stuff came up and i haven't had the chance for a couple of days. but expect something by e-mail ether today or tomarrow. I still don't know what i am going to do about divine spellcasting or the lack there of. so keep your ideas comeing. amethal, that was a good one BTW. thanks again for your help :u:
JohnSnow 10-22-04, 06:48 PM	I'm working on something very similar to this myself, so I'd be interested in seeing what you've worked out. Do you use the Initiate and Wilder classes from the WoT game? Or what? You said you invented new Talents: care to elaborate? So far, my plan was to start with the basic system from Fantasy Flight's Midnight, which I actually think reflects the WoT magic system (per the novels) better than the "slot system" in the WoT game. Since the mechanics from Midnight are OGL, I'll describe them briefly for those who don't have the book. "Spellcasting" is the result of a feat called, in the book, Magecraft. In Midnight characters with the Magecraft feat choose to be charismatic (CHA-based), hermetic (INT-based), or spiritual (WIS-based) casters. Such characters get spell energy equal to their casting ability bonus, and the ability to cast spells from the Universal school list (and they know 1 spell). Adding an additional "school" to your list of allowed spells takes a feat. There's a "Channeler" class that gets several bonus magic feats and extra spell energy equal to its level. (i.e. 3rd level channeler = +3 spell energy). They also get a "channeler ability" based on which spellcasting "tradition" they follow. The system of magic works as follows: Learning spells costs XP and gold (can't recall costs). Casting level = character level. You can cast spells equal to Character Level/2 (round down). +1 to level of spells castable IF Channeler Levels > levels in other classes. No material components but expensive ones replaced by XP cost to cast. Casting any spell takes spell energy equal to the spell level. If you don't have enough spell energy left, you may cast the spell by taking spell damage equal to the spell energy cost of the spell after you use up your remaining spell energy (e.g. if you want to cast a 5th level spell and you only have 3 spell energy, you use up that spell energy and take 2 points of spell damage). Spell damage is temporary CON damage which can only be recovered with 8 hours of sleep. Obviously this can be VERY dangerous. Basically, I'm thinking of turning the spells into Weaves (per WoT) and using WoT talents in place of the "school feats." I might require characters to spend XP to learn spells, unless they can watch the weave being cast and meet a required DC to learn it (15 + lowest level at which Weave can be cast?). That ALSO parallels how the characters in the WoT series seem to learn spells. I'd also have to add Air, Earth, Fire, Water, and Spirit descriptors to the spells from the PHB I wanted to port over. Finally, I could also use the rules and feats for the affinities (as described in the WoT game). I believe the system in Midnight already has ways to lower the spell energy cost of a spell, including Spell Talismans (which lower the spell energy cost of spells, either individually or a group of them - angreal anyone?), linking (which can also raise effective caster level...), and so forth. The only thing I can't recall is whether it allows a single individual to "Overchannel," but I think it does. If not, that should be a relatively easy addition. So, that's what I'm doing. I'm afraid I can't help with the system for clerics...other than to say, maybe you could use the granted power concept like Midnight does?
Mind Rogue 10-22-04, 11:24 PM	This sounds kind of cool. Does WoT use some sort of spell point system and spells known? Does it allow for the possiblity of learning more spells, excluding those you learn as you gain a level? Hmmm, this sounds like something I would like to use, but that would take a lot of work to overhaul all the spells. Now if I borrow a little bit from the psionics...