Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rosisha 11-27-07, 04:17 PM	Hello everyone, I came up with these rules a while back and have just finished typing them up. I am putting them here for critique! I have also reserved the first reply for examples I'll make at work tonight. Enjoy! I apologize for the length. Pardon the tables. I am not very good with computers, however, I did get the relevant information up. I have PDF files available if you would prefer to look at the tables as I drew them up. Sincerely, Rosisha Item Creation Rules The standard rules of masterwork items, as found in the Player's Handbook, have always been wanting. I have striven, with these rules, to create a balanced system that allows for the creation of non-magical items that can replace magical items, keep up party power at low levels, and allow for the introduction of fascinating items, story lines, peoples, and places within a game world. This system allows magical items to go back to special unique and valued items, while still allowing players to have the bonuses they need to survive. Magical items now break rules and allow players to do fantastic things, while masterwork items allow the players to survive with superior gear. A magical sword will be treasured instead of calculated into cost. And the costs of these items are significantly cheaper, which allows treasure to go towards other aspects of game play, such as fortifications and home bases, resurrections, and research. Finally, such a system puts item creation into the hands of the player as well as the DM. If a player decides they really need special rope, the DM can now simply let these rules figure out the costs, rather then do so on the fly. It also grants opportunities for role play, such as “Where can we get good high quality (read: high hardness) rope?” Answer: “Oh you need to go find Illrias Cloudweaver, a high elf who lives in the Southern Mountains. Only he could possibly provide what you need...” Rules This system is based off of one feat, and that is followed by a series of rules that effect a value known as the Total Bonus Value. This system is fairly basic, and is built to be used quickly and easily. Master Craftsmen (Craft (X)) [General] Prerequisite: Craft (X) 4 Skill Points, Skill Focus (Craft (X)) General: Allows the character to create masterwork items using one craft skill. Special: Can be taken more then once for different crafts. Players without this feat cannot create masterwork items. When creating an item, the player needs to figure out what it is he or she wants to accomplish and then map it out, gathering all the Bonus Values together, and then adding them up to equal the Total Bonus Value that will become important later. The system is based off a general +1 to +5 bonus system, however, it is important to note that it is open-ended and the Total Bonus Value can go as high as the DM allows. All features of the weapon will have a bonus value, and the Total Bonus Value is used to calculate the DC and cost. Use the following chart to gather the bonus values of the various enhancements the player wishes to create: Table 1: Bonus Value of Statistical Modifiers BV Standard* Weight +Dmg Die** Duration HP +1 +1 -5% 1d2 +5% x1.25 +2 +2 -10% 1d2+1 +10% x1.5 +3 +3 -15% 1d3+1 +15% x1.75 +4 +4 -20% 1d3+2 +20% x2 +5 +5 -25% 1d4+2 +25% x2.25 * - Categories include: Hardness, Skill Bonus, Armor Penalty reduction, Armor Class, Attack Bonus, Damage Bonus. ** - Automatically makes the item exotic. See rules below on "How Do I use my Item?" The changes are pretty self explanatory. A change to any standard item statistic, such as weight, has a corresponding Bonus Value. So if you create a dagger with a +2 attack bonus, and an additional 1d2 points of damage, you have created an exotic dagger with a Total Bonus Value of +3. If you create a longsword with a +5 attack bonus, and +5 damage bonus, you have created a weapon with a Total Bonus Value of +10. Example: Yohan, a halfling weapon smith, has thought up a fairly neat idea for a dagger. He draws out his plans and realizes that he can make a small, but fairly lethal weapon, but that it will take all his skill. However, a dagger with a +3 damage and +2 attack would be a nasty and deadly addition to any belt. Weight, duration, and hit points all have an effect on stats that people normally do not consider. However, weight reduction on plate mail is significant, and thus has an associated bonus cost. Duration directly impacts consumable items, such as lamp oil and torches. If an item says that it can only be used for an hour, that is the base time, and adjust from there. Hit points just adjust the base hit points of the item, which is useful for those items which are important to the party, such as a wizard's spell book, or the above mentioned rope. Note that other changes can be done as well, changes that are not able to be clearly shown on a chart. For example, an instant use item, such as a grenade or alchemist fire, doesn't have a duration. However, its effect can be made to last another round as a +3 enhancement. Changing damage types between the three standard (piercing, slashing, bludgeoning) is a +1 enhancement. Adding a damage type is a +2, and adding an exotic (such as cold or heat) is a +4. Other changes might be allowed by the DM as well, and if so, the DM should assign a value to them. The rule here is to keep it simple, allowing magical items to have a place, thus the restriction to +5 or lower for a single feature. If a feature is so powerful that the DM is considering a +6 or higher, it might be better to leave that feature for true magical items. Item enhancement features, those features that have a bonus value, can be stacked to any limit, or to a limit set by a DM. Low power games should stay under +5 or +10 at the extreme. High power games should not have a restriction at all. Finally remember that there are two types of item creation: Quality Quality items are made by a single crafter focusing on the quality of the item he is working on. A blacksmith, for example, making quality weapons and armor. The changes are a result of technique, skill, and modifications, and use the standard rules to calculate cost and DC. Enhancement Enhancements are done by any crafter that is attempting to modify another characters work. The base work must have a Total Bonus Value of +1, and then any additional bonuses will be added by the enhancer. This is usually done with mechanical, springs and clockwork, or alchemical, pseudo magical, changes. The cost to create such items is increased by 50% and the DC is increased by 5%. DC & Cost In order to calculate cost and DC, the player must first create the basic item, as a non-masterwork, calculating the cost to create as per the standard rules, and then roll a DC check, again, using the standard rules. Example: Our friend, Yuhan, wishes to create that unique and special dagger for a wizard friend of his. First, Yuhan must create a standard dagger. The cost to do so is 6sp 6cp. The DC is 12, which Yuhan must beat. With skill focus, +3, and maxed out ranks in Craft, he easily does this. His first step is now complete and he may now proceed to the next step, mapping out his item. The price of the raw materials, as calculated to create the standard item, is converted into gold. The two prices are then added together to represent the current base cost of the item. Example: Continuing from above, Yohan's simple dagger cost of 6sp 6cp cost is added to 6gp 6sp for a total price of 7gp 2sp 6cp. Already the item is pretty pricy, and isn't even a masterwork item yet! The price increases fairly evenly as it moves from +1 to +5 Total Bonus Value. The modifier is the base cost of the item multiplied by a simple formula to gain the cost. Take the value and add 50% plus an additional 50% of the base cost for each bonus over +1. The chart below shows the formula: Table 2: Cost Multiplier for TBV of +1 to +5 TBV Cost Multiplier +1 x1.5 +2 x2 +3 x2.5 +4 x3 +5 x3.5 Example: Yohan's dagger has a TBV of +5, thus making the cost 7gp, 2sp, 6cp and multiplying it by 3.5. The new total for the dagger is 25gp 4sp 1cp. This dagger will make a mighty fine present for his friend. For weapons over +5 TBV, calculate the cost normally, and then add a percentage of the new cost to the total. The percentage is calculated as 2%(TBV – 5). So if the TBV is 6 it would be 2%(1) to equal 2%. If it was TBV of 10, then it would be 2% (5) for a total of 10% added to the total cost. This chart shows the system here: Table 3: Cost Multiplier for +6 TBV and Above TBV Cost Multiplier +1 x4 + 2% +2 x4.5 + 4% +3 x5 + 6% +4 x5.5 + 8% +5 x6 + 10% Example: If Yohan also sought to reduce the weight by 10% this would increase the TBV to +7 which would mean that the base cost is now 7gp 2sp 6cp multiplied by 4.5 to get 32gp 6sp 7cp. Then 4% of that is added onto the final cost, for a total of 33gp 9sp and 8cp. The DC to create these items, unlike cost, is easy enough to calculate. The Base DC is 15 + 5xTBV. A +10 item will have a DC of 65. Note that items created with enhancements will have an additional +5 to their final DC. The DM should feel free to adjust the DC or price as they wish. Note that the player can take ten to make an item, but they may not take 20. All items require 1 week +1 multiplied by the TBV of uninterpreted time to create. How do I use my new item? As long as the TBV is +5 or less, the item can be used normally. However, exotic items, those whose value is +6 or higher, need training and practice to use. To deal with this concept, the player can choose one of three paths to gain the skill they need to use the item: Expert Training The player consults experts who use similar items. They can then train the player in its use. This can also be done with magical texts as well. The process takes one month and the cost should be equal to the cost of creating the item. Self Training the player studies and uses the item for one month + 1d4 weeks. Each week the player makes a DC 30 intelligence check plus any bonus from related knowledge fields. If, at the end of the time, there are equal or more passed checks, the player is proficient with the item. Note, the player cannot take 10 or 20 while doing this. Creation If the player created the item, and has equal ranks in Knowledge (X), they can make another DC check equal to creating the item, with no 10 or 20 check. If they pass, they can use the item normally. If they fail, then they gain a +10 to all checks while self training if they choose to take that approach instead. A player who does not know how to use the item gains a -2 penalty to use it. This is increased by -2 for each point of TBV over 5. Magical Items In order to enchant an item, and make it magical, the item must be crafted to a masterwork +3 item. Alchemists, note, can create a base +5 masterwork item, using the enhancement rules. This item has no other bonus, but is considered magical. No other abilities are gained with those five points, however, other features can be stacked on to the item.
Rosisha 11-27-07, 04:18 PM	This space is being reserved for changes, new items, and other thoughts as I come up with them, or as they are shared by you, the readers! Thanks! Rosisha
FriendlyBiscuit 03-10-08, 11:02 PM	I don't know if you were aware of it at the time, but news about 4e's coming was already hitting the streets when you did this thing. It's cool... it might be overcomplicated. I would have tried it in my current campaign when I started on Jan 2nd if I had seen the post, but it's too late. Great idea though, and I'll definitely bookmark it and adapt it into my 4e house rules if it looks like the new system will still need such a treatment.
Rosisha 03-11-08, 09:14 AM	Oh yeah, I knew 4E was coming out, but the whole thing just jumped into my brain at once.... so I posted it! I will probably want to make a more streamlined version soon, but was hoping for feedback. When 4E comes out, if I get it (cash being the big problem there) I will modify the rules to match the new system. Rosisha
guamae 04-11-08, 02:16 PM	I agree, it seams like craftsmanship in D&D is almost a moot factor. Sure you need to get Masterwork to make it magic, but 300 gp on a 18,000 gp +3 enchantment is still negligible. A few things on your rule set tho: Example: Yohan's dagger has a TBV of +5, thus making the cost 7gp, 2sp, 6cp and multiplying it by 3.5. The new total for the dagger is 25gp 4sp 1cp. This dagger will make a mighty fine present for his friend.[/I] My this makes things cheap, doesn't it? The equivalent of a +2 magic dagger (instead of costing 8,000 gp) is 21 gp and some change. If it's this cheap to make, no way would it sell for it's actual value (relative to other items). I would suggest keeping the prices fairly similar to what's outlined in the book. I.e, a +1 MW item would add 300 gp to the cost and then it would increase at an exponential pace (similar to how magic items do). Of course Magic Items give a +1 to attack and to damage, where as Master Works have to buy them separately, so that would change things, and i'd like the increase to be more steep at later levels for MW. +2 to damage and attack would translate into a +4 MW weapon. Do the simple equation (150 * 2 ^TBV) and you have your price, 2,400 gp. Significantly cheaper than the Magic Equivalent. But then you get fancier and fancier, and sooner or later you want your +5/+5 MW weapon which finally costs (150 * 2 ^10) 153,600 gp ... significantly more than the magic equivalent (50,000 gp). Of course you could fiddle around with this, (i'd recommended changing the base number), maybe modify it for the type of item you're producing (a MW quarterstaff would probably be a lot cheaper than a MW Crossbow[maybe have the multiplier be 15x the normal cost of the weapon .... ] or maybe lower the exponent multiplier so that the increase in cost is more gentle .... do we want folk to have swords with -10% weight, +3 to hit and an extra 1d2+2 damage??). The DC to create these items, unlike cost, is easy enough to calculate. The Base DC is 15 + 5xTBV. A +10 item will have a DC of 65. Note that items created with enhancements will have an additional +5 to their final DC. The DM should feel free to adjust the DC or price as they wish. DC 65!?!?!? Do you want this to be possible or not!? Average roll is 10, lets say +10 from items/feats/ability (unless you gear your epic character specfically for crafting ... and i don't think commoners and experts get to epic levels usually), that means you need to have 45 ranks in the skill and a whomping lvl of 42!?! For your +5 TBV dagger you'd need to be lvl 17. Do you think a lvl 17 character would care much for a +2/+3 weapon? If they're as cheap to make as you said, do you think any NPC of that rank would bother to make such low-profit yet blazingly difficult items? (assuming we follow the basic rule that items craft for their resale value of 1/2 sales price). The base DC according to your post is 12, so why not start with that ... by the time you hit lvl 20 it should be a basic adventuring item to have equivalent to +5 magic weapon (TBV 10). Based off of linear progression from 12 to a specialized lvl 20 being able to reliably create TBV 10, the equation would be 12 + 2 *TBV. Expert Training[/I] The player consults experts who use similar items. They can then train the player in its use. This can also be done with magical texts as well. The process takes one month and the cost should be equal to the cost of creating the item. Self Training the player studies and uses the item for one month + 1d4 weeks. Each week the player makes a DC 30 intelligence check plus any bonus from related knowledge fields. If, at the end of the time, there are equal or more passed checks, the player is proficient with the item. Note, the player cannot take 10 or 20 while doing this. A sword is a sword is a sword ... isn't it? If anything having a finely crafted and expertly made sword should make it easier for anyone to pick up and use. Maybe have some sort of system where you must attune to the blade in order to get maximum power out of it (normally this sword is TBV 8, but until you can harness it's power, it's only TBV 6 for you...) But that should be something you must learn from the sword and can't have taught to you. And DC 30 intelligence check ... honestly? The base DC should 10+whatever bonuses you expect the player to have. How about 15? 3xTBV if you get to add your BAB to it. (plus i'd say wisdom). You shouldn't need to be an expert sword-crafter, or know the history of bladed weaponry to know how to use a weapon properly. You should need to know how to balance the blade well and how to get the most force out of a swing (i.e. BAB). What i would like to see, ultimately, is that the best weapons would need a combination of expert craftsmanship and magical oompf, with all the "heroic" (and maybe half the "paragon") items just being masterwork. The only way to effectively do this is to have MW start cheaper and easier, and then get to a point where you just can't effectively make it more special without magic.
guamae 04-11-08, 02:23 PM	Or, alternatively, to encourage equal-building, you could charge full price (in DC and coin) for only the largest bonus and maybe 1/2 price for each bonus of equal or lesser value. Of course the first bonus would have to cost more than the equations i put up a moment ago, but i don't know yet how they should be modded for this.
Rosisha 04-11-08, 04:54 PM	OoO! That was a critique that was useful :D I haven't thought about these rules in a while (other things have taken over sadly) but will reappraoch them this weekend. Let me see if I can answer some of these critiques.. though to be honest I think my base system might have to be scrapped in favor of a new system. As to the value of magic items vs. non-magic items... non-magical bonuses are useless against anything immune to mundane damage or with heavy DR. Rosisha
guamae 04-11-08, 05:33 PM	As to the value of magic items vs. non-magic items... non-magical bonuses are useless against anything immune to mundane damage or with heavy DR. Well that rule was put in the books assuming that any non-magical weapon is low powered and would shame a mid lvl adventurer in the first place. If MasterWork got an overhaul making it useful for levels above 3, that rule would have to be changed as well. Maybe enchantments made more expensive also ... when i thought about this back in the day i decided it would be too much trouble. But in all sorts mythology the magic swords were things of great power that could shape continents and had dragons invested into the blade. Even in 4th edition there are weakly enchanted lvl 3 swords ... i guess if anyone with a decent amount of training could shoot bolts made out of pure etheric force ... it's not that much of a stretch.
Rosisha 04-11-08, 08:53 PM	Hmm... well one way to handle it would be to get rid of the low level powered items, and replace them with a masterwork system.... LOL Let me see what I can do over this weekend... no promises though! this is daunting! Also, if anyone else wants to contribute to the discussion they can!
guamae 04-11-08, 10:33 PM	Hmm... well one way to handle it would be to get rid of the low level powered items, and replace them with a masterwork system.... LOL Well, in the world of Mythology magic was never that potent or accessible. Tho i'm not saying D&D is based on this, the most impressive thing i ever remember Gandalf doing is lighting a wet log for a fire. I imagine Merlin could do stuff a bit more flashy, but still nothing like what is possible in D&D. So i don't really mind that low level adventurers get mini-magic items ... specially if entertainers in major cities can cast fireballs instead of using fireworks. .... I still think that a talented blacksmith should be able to do more than prep items for enchantment...
Rosisha 04-11-08, 11:33 PM	I agree! I have some ideas that I'm now working on. Hopefully they will sound good. I'll put em up online sometime in the near future!
Rosisha 04-14-08, 02:53 PM	Item Creation Rules v2 "... the hammer, son, you have to apply it swiftly, like a snake striking a rabbit! Feel the heat in your hand, the temper of the steel, and let your instincts guide you. Thats right. Steel is a living thing, and you must tame it." ~ Master Terrendin, Dwarf Master Blacksmith to his Apprentice Item creation allows a player to create items of value and worth, things that can be used by the party, but also things that can be sold. Item creation is, therefore, not just about gear, but also about income. As a result, it is a great skill to place a few points in as it allows you to contribute to the party, and make some side cash during down time. However, is that all it needs to be? One of my greatest disappointments with the crafting system has always been the lack of imagination that went into it. It had the potential to be great, but was relegated to a field of other skills, in order to keep the game more focused on combat. Understandable, since a lot of the game focuses on combat, and not so much on the craft skill. Yet, I think this is a mistake. I think that ignoring such a potential for player contribution to the game world prevents an avenue of roleplaying and exploration that can be exploited by the DM for the benefit of the players. Of course, creating a short sword for your halfling friend when you can just purchase one as easily doesn't really do a lot, except for make friends of the two. But what if your character was the only one who knew the secret to creating exceptional blades, those that just seem to bite a little harder? Now you have something to contribute. Of course, finding that blacksmith, if none is in the party, is also of value, quest worthy even. What we are talking about is masterwork items. Creations of such value that they should be sought out by the players, instead of just ignored. The following rules will consider item creation and masterwork items from the ground up. Hopefully they will be an improvement over the last system offered, and will allow DMs to provide interesting weapons and items at low level play, before magic items replace the system. Crafting (X) (Intelligence) The basic craft skill is essentially a good skill. It provides a system to allow players to contribute to their surroundings. Unfortanitly, the system is not complete. I will now present the basic rules of crafting here for easy reference. These rules are part of the SRD and can reproduced as needed. Determining Time and Price to Create an Item: Find the item's price. Put the price in silver pieces (1 gp = 10 sp). Find the DC from the table below. Pay one third the item's price for the cost of raw materials. Make an appropriate craft check representing one weeks work. If the check succeeds, multiply your check result by the DC. If the result x the DC equals the price of the item in SP, then you have completed the item (if the result x the DC equals double or triple the price of the item in silver pieces, then you've completed the task in one-half or one-third of the time. Other multiples of the DC reduce the time in the same manner). If the result x the DC doesn't equal the price, then it represents the progress you've made this week. Record the result and make a new craft check for the next week. Each week, you make more progress until your total reaches the price of the item in silver pieces. If you fail a check by 4 or less, you make no progress this week.If you fail by 5 or more, you ruin half the raw materials and have to pay half the original raw material cost again. Progress by the Day: You can make checks by the day instead of by the week. In this case your progress (check result × DC) is in copper pieces instead of silver pieces. Try Again: You can always try again, but if you miss your DC by five or more points you ruin half the raw materials. Repairing Items: Generally, you can repair an item by making checks against the same DC that it took to make the item in the first place. The cost of repairing an item is one-fifth of the item’s price. Difficulty Class of Creating Items: The following chart will give the player a vague idea of what the DC for each item is. Although this chart attempts to stay close to the original, there are some changes to reflect new changes being introduced here. Alchemy and trapmaking are both currently being kept off the chart and will be explained further down in their own subsections. Item: Craft Skill: Craft DC: Armor Armorsmithing 10 Shield Armorsmithing 5 Bow Bowmaking 10 Composite Bow Bowmaking 15 + (2 x Rating) Crossbow Weaponsmithing 10 Simple Weapon Weaponsmithing 5 Martial Weapon Weaponsmithing 10 Exotic Weapon Weaponsmithing 15 Very Simple Item (Spoon) Varies 5 Typical Item (Pot) Varies 10 High Quality Item (Bell) Varies 15 Complex Item (Lock) Varies 20 Note: Making an item that is racial specific, such as the gnome hooked hammer, or dwarven urgrosh are considered exotic items only for those not of that race. For any weapon that is listed in the racial list as being familiar or exclusive to the race, crafters of that race get a -5 to the DC for creating that item. A Gnome Hooked Hammer is treated as DC 10 to create for a Gnome, as it is a racial specific item. Elves can create bows for DC 5, composite bows for DC 10, etc, as those items are listed as racial familiar items. Now we know how to build our basic item, calculate the cost, repair it, and guage how long it will take for us to get the work done. So let us now turn our attention to masterwork items. Masterwork Item Creation The essential idea behind is that there are multiple categories of items, ranging from Poor to Masterwork. The items reflect what the creator wanted to do, substandard items are usually designed to be cost-effective, while masterwork items are designed to be very effective at what they do. Finally it is hoped that this system can provide a means to allow players to create entirely new items, this system will be attached at the end. This system vastly changes the creation of masterwork items, making it both easier and cheaper. As a result, in order to create masterwork items, in the name of balance, I offer a feat: Masterwork Crafting (X) (General) Prerequisite: Skill Focus (Craft (X)) Benefit: Allows the player to make masterwork items. To begin, each item has features. These rules say that a craftsmen can adjust those features to allow some flexability in design, whether to make a cheap item, or a high quality one. At this point there are four categories: Armor, Weapons, Equipment, and Consumables. Note that, again, Alchemy and Trapmaking are handled in their own section. Armor: Armor Bonus, Maximum Dex Bonus, Armor Check Penalty, Arcane Spell Failure, Speed, and Weight. Examples include chain mail and a large shield. Weapons: Damage Bonus, Attack Bonus, Critical, Range Increment, Weight, and Type. Examples include the longsword, crossbow, or club. Equipment: Task, Skill Check, and Weight. Examples include a fishing net, or hourglass. Consumables: Task, Skill Check, Weight, and Duration. Examples include a torch, rations, or oil. All: Hardness, Hit Points Essentially what happens is that the crafting character changes whatever features of the item they wish to change, and this has an effect on the price and DC. The changes can be found here: Feature Change Item Classification Price (SP) DC +3 Masterwork +66% +6 +2 Expert +33% +4 +1 Quality +15% +2 0 Standard +0% +0 -1 Substandard -10% -1 -2 Shoddy -20% -2 -3 Poor -30% -3 This gives us an abstract that can be used to see what it is that is being done with the system. We now have a range of items, going from poor quality to masterwork quality that the crafter will be able to create. Now, mentioned above were a collection of item features. These features can all be adjusted, but what those adjustments are worth is determined in the next chart: Feature Change Standard Percentile +3 +3 9% +2 +2 6% +1 +1 3% 0 0 0 -1 -1 2% -2 -2 4% -3 -3 6% Standard changes include changes to: Armor Class, Attack Bonus, Damage Bonus, Maximum Dex Bonus, Skill Check, Hardness and potentially the task of the item if it is something measured on a scale of 1 through X. This feature change essentially gives a plus value or minus value to that number. For example, a dagger with a +1 feature change to attack bonus makes it a quality dagger +1 to hit. A crossbow with a -2 to damage is a crossbow, shoddy, 1d6-2. Note that a weapon will always do one point of damage, though armor does not necessarily always give an armor class bonus. Percentile changes include changes to any percentile value, such as Arcane Spell Failure, and also to values such as weight, range increments, duration and hit points which will have percentile changes. For any change, if it is a positive change, then the change is positive. So armor which has its weight changed by a +3 feature change, will see a reduction in 9% of the armors weight. A -3 feature change would increase the weight by 6%. So to sum up: if the value is best represented by a +1 or -1, use the standard chart. If it is best represented by a percentile change, use that chart instead. Special Materials and Masterwork Creation Items can be created with materials different from the standard for that item. When this is done, it will change the the standard values of the item initially, but does not necessarily make the item masterwork. That can be done later. However special materials do change the base values, and can make an item harder to make. Some examples of special materials can be found in the Arms & Equipment Guide. Since those materials are not listed in the SRD, I will not reproduce them here, but will offer some I have just made up to give a general idea. Material DC Cost Bone -4 -75% Stone -2 -50% Bronze -1 -25% Iron/Steel 0* 0* Wood 0* 0* Umbral Wood +2 +100% Umbral Iron +2 +100% Elvish Steel +7 +80% Fiendish Leather +5 +100% * Wood, Iron, and Steel represent standard materials. If wood is used to make a traditionally iron or steel weapon, like a fire hardened spear, treat it as stone. If iron is used to make traditionally wooden items, it is doubled in weight, and if can cause damage, it increases the damage by one damage die. New Materials Umbral Wood/Iron Mined on the Plane of Shadow, Umbral materials are often used by crafters seeking to create items that are designed for illusion. Although they tend to be colder then traditional items, nothing immediately distinguishes them. However, umbral material is only 90% real, and this grants a general benefit to weight. They grant a +1 feature value to all non-combat mechanic feats. They grant a +1 cold damage bonus. Elvish Steel This high quality steel is used exclusively by elves, and is very rarely given to outsiders. It is used to create a number of things, including tools, weapons and armor. Elvish steel reduces the weight of an item by 10%. When used by elves, the DC adjustment is only +2, and the cost is only +40%. Fiendish Leather Taken from the flesh of fiendish creatures, like those summoned by evil mages, this leather can be used to fasion equipment just as regular leather can. When done, the item gains the evil descriptor, though there is no penalty for a good character using it. Armor that is made with fiendish leather gains a general +1 AC from the latent evil energies. Note that this can be done with celestial leather as well for those that wish to have the good descriptor on their gear. The Detect Evil spell and Detect Good spell will be able to find this equipment unless it is protected against scrying. Craft Alchemy The problem with alchemy is that there is no standardization to the creation of the cost and DC of alchemical items. However, I wish to propose a basic system that can be used to create the basic items, and this will allow the materials to be better used in the creation of masterwork items. This system treats Alchemy as other craft skills, rather then each and every item having its own DC, cost, and other features. Standardization also allows for the ease of creation of other items, instead of alchemist fire, you might want firedust, but the DC and cost are the same. Changes can be done with modifications to the cost and DC as the DM allows. Note that all alchemy items are considered to be consumables unless they are part of another item, for example, alchemist fire being used in the creation of a blade to make it forever hot. The rules for that are below. Effect DC Cost Energy 20 25gp Class Feature 25 50gp 0 level Spell 15 20gp 1st Level Spell 20 25gp Modification 10 10gp Other X X Energy Feature: Energy effects are those that produce energy damage, or prevent damage from energy types, either through increasing a save against cold damage, or by covering the opponent in acid. Damage is usually 1d6 with 1 point of splash damage. This is followed by 1d6 points of damage the next round. Defensive uses of energy will grant a bonus to the fortitude save to resist damage. This save is a +4 and will last for 1d4 rounds after being used. If drunk, an alchemist potion can grant a bonus to armor class against that type of attack of +1 for one hour. Changes can be made at GM discretion. Class Feature: Those items that mimic a class or race feature go here, such as Darkvision Powder (page 33, A&EG) or Gravebane (page 34, A&EG). These items are usually slightly weaker versions of the class or race feature they are mimicing, and will usually only have a duration measured in minutes. Again, changes can occur with GM permission. 0 Level Spell Feature: These items mimic a zero level spell, such as the sunrod which mimics the light spell (note that at the Player's Handbook cost of 2gp, one creation of the sunrod would result in 10 sunrods, this is perfectly acceptable way to adjust the system to match the old system and is mentioned here cause it makes sense to do so). A firework, that would act as a flare spell, would also go here. 1st Level Spell Feature: These spells mimic first level spells, such as Fleetfoot Oil, which is a weaker version of Expeditious Retreat. These creations never fully mimic the spells, and must never be as good. However, they do provide some cover for the player when needed most. Another good one is the tanglefoot bag and smokestick. Modification Feature: These are items that modify existing items to work slightly differently. Signal torches (pg 35, A&EG), for example, are torches with a different color. This is not a significant enough change to make a big deal out of. On the other hand, if the torch burned cold, that would probably move it into an energy feature. Other: If what you want to make simply has no category it can fit in, use the other category. This is where the DM and the player must sit down and do their best to come up with a compromise. Use the options above to narrow down your choice as much as possible. Masterwork Alchemy Alchemists can create masterwork creations that function as consumables above. They can increase duration, but they can also increase other affects like Armor Class, Skill Bonuses, Saves (Will, Reflex, and Fortitude), and attack bonuses and damage bonuses. These bonuses are all considered Alchemical Bonuses. Use the most appropriate chart: standard or percentile. The next thing that an alchemist can do is to use their skill on the raw materials that are being used to create an item. When creating an item, the player determines the raw materials necessary by taking the price of the desired item, converting it to silver and taking 1/3rd of that as the cost of the raw materials. Alchemists can treat this as an item that needs to be converted. So now you treat the market value of the alchemist raw material, convert that into 1/3rd and add it to the original 1/3 you already had to get the creation value. This is then multiplied by three to get the market value. For example, I wish to create a dagger that will have a +1 damage bonus, but the bonus is heat based. So I need an alchemist. A +1 dagger would normally be 8sp to create (2gp equals 20sp, plus 15% due to being a +1 item would now equal 23sp, divided by three is 7.6666 or 8sp when rounded up). However, I am making an energy based feature change, so instead of 8sp, the cost now becomes 8sp plus 84sp (25gp is the market price of an energy item, so you convert that to silver to get 250sp, and then divide that by three to get 84sp rounded up). The total cost to create the item would thus be 92sp, and the market price of the item would be 276sp, or 27gp 6sp. The dagger is now a dagger [heat] 1d4+1.
guamae 04-14-08, 04:46 PM	I still think the modifications for items (+1 dagger) is undervalued in your system. As a player i would never bother with the cost of alchemicalizing if i could get a +3 bonus for 18 silver .... goodness that's cheap .... No matter how you look at it, the base cost of an item is a pittance to any adventurer. The economies of adventurers is completely different than that of towns or anything else. For goodness sake, a war ship costs half as much as a +5 sword. And that's about as much Cash on Hand a 9th level character starts with. What level range do you want your MasterWork items to be for? I really like the bonuses being inherent in what materials you use ... tho i think there should be more options on that. Plus could you give an example of how that works?
guamae 04-14-08, 07:12 PM	Ok ... here's my idea. It's heavily based off material used, and these bonuses are designed to stack with magical bonuses... which will probably have to be reworked as well. I also don't have the price fully worked out yet. Material ...............Max ...Min....Base.....Cost................. .Weight Bone ...................0........-4.....-6.........50%...................50% Stone ..................0........-3.....-4.........70%.................150% Bronze .................0........-2.....-2.........80% Iron .....................2.......-2......0..........Base Wood ...................2.......-2......0..........Base Steel ...................3.......-2.......1.........200% Planar Wood .........5.......-2.......3......1,000gp +300%........50% Alchemical Steel* ..3........-2......6........5000% Elvish Steel* .........4........-2......4.......4000%.................... 75% Dwarven Steel* .....6.........0......5........7000%.... ..............125% Magical Leather .....3........-2......3........500gp +500%..........75% Dagon Hide* .........6........-4.....10.....5,000gp +2000%........50% Mithral* ...............5........-2......8......4,000gp +1000%........40% Adamantine* ** ....8........-4.....12....10,000gp +2000%......115% Max: the maximum bonus capable using this material. Min: the maximum negative possible using this material. Base: the number of points available from use of this material Cost: adjustment to purchase price of equipment. Weight: change in weight inherent to the material. * Requires Feat to Craft with ** Bonuses from Adamantine can also be used to allow Hardness to be bypassed (5 for 2 points) or grant damage reduction x/- (1 for 2 points) Planar wood is wood harvested from certain planes other than the Prime Material Plane. Alchemical Steel is made using a variety of impurities that give the metal special properties beyond that gained from simple iron and carbon. This is a specialty of human craftsmen. Elvish/Dwarven Steel is imbued with the power of the elves/dwarves. Though it is not unheard of to be used among other races, it is very rare that a non-elf/dwarf be taught the methods of crafting these materials. Magical Leather is made from the hides of Magical Beasts of all sorts. Dragon Hide is far and beyond the ken of normal Magical Leather and requires special skills, materials and time to use to its fullest extent. The hide of a dragon can be used by lesser craftsmen without these precautions, but is then treated as normal Magical Leather. The Base value also functions as the minimum ranks in Craft (X) required to work a certain material. When designing a Master Work item, one aspect of the item can be sacrificed for another, i.e. a weapon could be made heavier in order to increase the damage output. When doing this, a drop of 2 points in one or more areas creates 1 extra point available for improvements. Armor can be modified for: Armor Bonus, Maximum Dex Bonus and Armor Check Penalty, [bonuses and penalties, 1 for 1] Arcane Spell Failure and Weight (change applied after material adjustment). [5% per point. 25 lbs and less = light weight, 40 lbs and more = heavy] Weapons can be modified for: Damage Bonus, Attack Bonus, [bonuses and penalties, 1 for 1] Critical, [Crit Range increase 2 points for 1 (can not be made better than 17-20), multiple increase 3 points for 1] Range Increment, Weight (change applied after material adjustment) [10% per point] Damage Die [2 points per change on Size chart (DMG pg 28)] Items can be made with more bonus points than the base granted by the item (but not with bonuses greater than the maximum allowed by the item). Due to the exceptional workmanship the number of points available can be increased by up to half the base value or 3, whichever is higher. DC = 5* + Normal Value + Base Value for Material + 3x additional points from quality * only for materials requiring special processing.
Rosisha 04-15-08, 02:44 AM	These sound good, but it is almost 3am where I am at :D SO I'm going to digest these as I sleep and respond tomorrow. I did want to let you know I got them. Interesting that you ran with the special materials... I litterely added that today as a tack on. Any thoughts on my attempts to standardize alchemy? Rosisha
guamae 04-15-08, 10:06 AM	Ehh .. i don't know much about Alchemy. I'm stingy in games and RL so i try not to spend my coins on consumables, lest i absolutely have to. The special materials idea was actually one i had years ago [after reading A Game of Thrones and that series] but never fleshed out/refined until yesterday. I actually forgot about it till i saw your post. I was thinking this morning, that for 4e they were going to make Crafting more accessible, such that you won't need fancy spells and feats for it. That idea could be expanded so that making a Magic Sword is something that a normal blacksmith could do (like making MasterWork items) and be closer to following a recipe for cake than warping reality. I.e.: To make a +1 Flame-Burst Longsword, the final working must be done at sunset on a clear day so that the bright red flames of the dying sun can be invested into the metal. Incense of (x) should be burned to insure that the power takes hold. For the construction of a +1 Icy-Blast spear, the tip must be finished in the light of the full moon and be quenched in a still pool of clear water. If lakes or ponds are not available, a large trough of rain water will suffice. Keep the fires of the forge stoked low as to not disturb the area, or maintain the forge at a distance from where you are hammering. The spirits of Water and Fire do not always get along ...