New Mp System [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTimePost
Lina_Inverse

07-26-05, 06:33 PM
Ok Casters as we all know have problems.how much they can launch at someone is one,being restricted to needing X encounters a day is another.lets face it limited slots are limited by high levels.ontop of this low level casters are hosed.and and and mps fun.so anyways heres the idea.

casters have mp equal to there casterlevel+primary attribute modifier(or con if you prefer).spells cost mp equal to there spell level.
now heres the big part.
Any spell with a duration has its mp restored at the end of the duration or 10 minutes whichever is more.
any tactical spell(fireball,web,wail of the banshee etc.) has the mp used to cast it in 10 minutes.
any strategic spell(teleport,atonement etc.) has the mp used to cast it restored in one day.

so whats this do?
casters can unload equally during every combat.ussually getting about 3 top level spells off,or a good number of lower level spells off.
casters are much more wary of useing stuff like teleport.
Mind Rogue

07-26-05, 11:13 PM
First off, I'm not certain that a first level spell and an eighth level spell together are worth a ninth level, and I'm not certain about any combination in between either.

Secondly, spells of duration 10 min/level actually deprove as you get more powerful, since they burn through your MP and you can't get it back until their lengthy duration expires. Once a spell hits 10 minutes, you're often better to let it expire, reclaim the Mp to use for something else, then cast it again when you need it.

Also, you actually get fewer spells at a time as you become more powerful. The reason is twofold: 1.) You have more lasting 'buff' spells that just sit there tying up your Mp, 2.) your mana supply doesn't keep up with the cost of the spells. At level 1, you get one level Mp and three Int mp, allowing you to cast your top spell four times (meaning mage armor and three magic missiles). At twentieth level, you get 20 level Mp and around 8 Int mp. This allows you to throw up Mage Armor, Shield, Resist Energy against the most probably energy type, See Invisibility, Fly, one more level one buff, and two level nine spells. If he doesn't use so many buffs, he'll have access to three of them, but never will he get four. Also, this example isn't to extreme, A normal wizard would likely cast Mage Armor, Darkvision, Greater Magic Weapon and a Protection from Arrows spell first thing every morning since they both will last twenty hours (virtually all day), as would a Mount, while Resist Energy, See Invisibility, Alter Self, any of the animal trait spells, Light or Daylight, Comprehend Languages or Tongues, Keen Edge, and a number of higher level spells that I've never be powerful enough to use have a duration of 200 minutes (over three hours) and would likely be cast if there is the slightest inkling that they would be useful during that time. However, under your variant, using all of these spells would drastically cut into the number of spells he could cast later, even though normally this doesn't affect his upper level spells at all. For instance, it is possible for a wizard to prepare and cast every single one of the above spells starting at 9th level (earlier if he's a specialist who's done some research), leaving him pretty well buffed and all of his 4th level or higher spells intact, but assuming he used ordinary light and comprehend languages, he's just used 21 levels, which even at 20th level leaves him only able to cast 7th level spells, give or take a level or two, and only one of them at that.
Lina_Inverse

07-27-05, 02:36 AM
First off, I'm not certain that a first level spell and an eighth level spell together are worth a ninth level, and I'm not certain about any combination in between either.

by the offcial mp rules nope,but i was going for simplicity.normally a 9th level spell is 17 times as potent as a first.and its an 8th and 21sts.but i wanted mp to be simple.


Secondly, spells of duration 10 min/level actually deprove as you get more powerful, since they burn through your MP and you can't get it back until their lengthy duration expires. Once a spell hits 10 minutes, you're often better to let it expire, reclaim the Mp to use for something else, then cast it again when you need it.

yeah that is a problem.but i dont want people being able to throw up buffs then get back the mana thus haveing a full pool and a buff.is not perfect.


Also, you actually get fewer spells at a time as you become more powerful. The reason is twofold: 1.) You have more lasting 'buff' spells that just sit there tying up your Mp, 2.) your mana supply doesn't keep up with the cost of the spells. At level 1, you get one level Mp and three Int mp, allowing you to cast your top spell four times (meaning mage armor and three magic missiles). At twentieth level, you get 20 level Mp and around 8 Int mp. This allows you to throw up Mage Armor, Shield, Resist Energy against the most probably energy type, See Invisibility, Fly, one more level one buff, and two level nine spells. If he doesn't use so many buffs, he'll have access to three of them, but never will he get four. Also, this example isn't to extreme, A normal wizard would likely cast Mage Armor, Darkvision, Greater Magic Weapon and a Protection from Arrows spell first thing every morning since they both will last twenty hours (virtually all day), as would a Mount, while Resist Energy, See Invisibility, Alter Self, any of the animal trait spells, Light or Daylight, Comprehend Languages or Tongues, Keen Edge, and a number of higher level spells that I've never be powerful enough to use have a duration of 200 minutes (over three hours) and would likely be cast if there is the slightest inkling that they would be useful during that time. However, under your variant, using all of these spells would drastically cut into the number of spells he could cast later, even though normally this doesn't affect his upper level spells at all. For instance, it is possible for a wizard to prepare and cast every single one of the above spells starting at 9th level (earlier if he's a specialist who's done some research), leaving him pretty well buffed and all of his 4th level or higher spells intact, but assuming he used ordinary light and comprehend languages, he's just used 21 levels, which even at 20th level leaves him only able to cast 7th level spells, give or take a level or two, and only one of them at that.

did i say this wouldnt nerf casters?nope.infact thats part of the intent.i WANT casters to not be as strong as they are.casters can get off a reliable amount of power but cant have 20 something all day buffs up if they want to do something,and your post basiclly says it he gets a ridiculous number of buffs free for no cost,everything should have a tradeoff.lowlevel buffs cutting into spellpower exists regardless in an mp system,thats how it works.
Gilean

07-27-05, 04:44 AM
Might work for low-magic. The limit of regeneration is a good idea.
But please, shift and space bar. More than three lines of that is a pain to read.
Mind Rogue

07-27-05, 12:28 PM
did i say this wouldnt nerf casters?nope.infact thats part of the intent.i WANT casters to not be as strong as they are.casters can get off a reliable amount of power but cant have 20 something all day buffs up if they want to do something,and your post basiclly says it he gets a ridiculous number of buffs free for no cost,everything should have a tradeoff.lowlevel buffs cutting into spellpower exists regardless in an mp system,thats how it works.
I'm not disputing that in many ways you have nerfed casters, although you might not have done as nice a job at it as you think. However, they should be able to have a reasonable number of buffs in place, which at higher levels shouldn't hardly affect them at all. At fifth level, I wouldn't be surprised if a wizard was to wear Mage Armor whenever he went somewhere the least bit dangerous, and if he was expecting combat, he'd throw up Resist Energy:Fire, then blanket the area in a Fireball. Normally, he can probably only do this once, unless he's doubled up on fireballs, then he has to resort to lower level spells. However, under your scheme, he has roughly 8 mp, which allows him to use all of the above spells once (two fireballs if he has at least a +4 Int or if he can get some extra Mp from speciallizing). However, if he can wait ten minutes, he can do it all again, where normally he would have to wait all day. What's really happening is that you're sacrificing immediate quantity and versitility for long term quantity.

Likewise, a first-level wizard could essentially always have Mage Armor in effect, and still have enough mana to cast three magic missiles every ten minutes. Assuming the party doesn't travel very fast, so they minimize the trouble they encounter, he could throw a missile at every single enemy they encounter. Likewise, if the cleric only casts healing spells, he can heal 4d8+4 damage every ten minutes. Assuming they go at a pace where they don't take more damage than that, they can explore essentially all day.

Essentially, this starts looking like a really toned down version of recharge magic that encourages you to take the time to search every room (so that you can get your Mp back), which means that the game might actually progress slower. It also means that you have to conserve only enough resources that you can survive if you are interupted during those ten minutes; and if you interrupt them every time they try to lay low and rest, they will quickly get mad, but if you don't things won't pose as much of a problem.
Lina_Inverse

07-27-05, 02:32 PM
I'm not disputing that in many ways you have nerfed casters, although you might not have done as nice a job at it as you think. However, they should be able to have a reasonable number of buffs in place, which at higher levels shouldn't hardly affect them at all. At fifth level, I wouldn't be surprised if a wizard was to wear Mage Armor whenever he went somewhere the least bit dangerous, and if he was expecting combat, he'd throw up Resist Energy:Fire, then blanket the area in a Fireball. Normally, he can probably only do this once, unless he's doubled up on fireballs, then he has to resort to lower level spells. However, under your scheme, he has roughly 8 mp, which allows him to use all of the above spells once (two fireballs if he has at least a +4 Int or if he can get some extra Mp from speciallizing). However, if he can wait ten minutes, he can do it all again, where normally he would have to wait all day. What's really happening is that you're sacrificing immediate quantity and versitility for long term quantity.

the general intent was that the caster would reset between combats.that the 4/day limit on encounters would be generally not needed(id need to put up house rules for other abilitys but spells first) while also nerfing the caster to an extent.i WANT mages to be able to be full every 10 minutes.
as for buffs,i dont like them.why?
A.they have a casting time of 1 action and touch range with short durations,these tend to suck.
B.they have a duration of 1hour/level makeing magic items useless.who uses +s on weapons?no one they use GMW,which costs the caster nothing instead of thousands of gold.a caster will still have a huge assortment of buffs just now theyll actully be items instead of free stuff.


Likewise, a first-level wizard could essentially always have Mage Armor in effect, and still have enough mana to cast three magic missiles every ten minutes. Assuming the party doesn't travel very fast, so they minimize the trouble they encounter, he could throw a missile at every single enemy they encounter. Likewise, if the cleric only casts healing spells, he can heal 4d8+4 damage every ten minutes. Assuming they go at a pace where they don't take more damage than that, they can explore essentially all day.

:) thats the idea.


Essentially, this starts looking like a really toned down version of recharge magic that encourages you to take the time to search every room (so that you can get your Mp back), which means that the game might actually progress slower. It also means that you have to conserve only enough resources that you can survive if you are interupted during those ten minutes; and if you interrupt them every time they try to lay low and rest, they will quickly get mad, but if you don't things won't pose as much of a problem.

yeah i guess it is a mp version of recharge magic.wasnt thinking about recharge magic when i made it,
i fail to see how the game will progress slower.we wait 10 minutes then move,no biggie no real time wasted.id LOVE to say spells are per encounter.but people who say thats moronic but its the intent.its why buff spells tie up mana.you have Xmana helping you per encounter.
Mind Rogue

07-27-05, 02:57 PM
It will slow down the game since your casters will blow most or all of their spells every encounter, then the characters will sit down so that they can recharge their mana. Since this would be really boring for the characters to do all the time, expect them to continuously say "I search the monster's corpse for useful stuff" and "I search the bookshelf for useful things or hidden switches" and the like, and you then end up having to come up with book titles like "All about Ogres", "A Brief History of Magic", and "The Goblin Wars". They won't ever explore out right after finishing a battle, since that is when they are most vulnerable, and if you interupt them at the five minute mark, they won't know what to do to defend themself, since both the wizard and the cleric are out of spells, and the fighter only got healled back up to half health.

If you want them to actually be able to run all day, just use the recharge magic, perhaps bumping up the die size if you think it charges too fast. They won't be forced to artificially sit down and admire the scenery if they just want to reach a specific destination without risking being killed, and they will still be able to use their best spells each battle, but be limited in their quantity.
Gilean

07-28-05, 02:17 AM
Or change the point regeneration to be 1 point per minute, or something like that.
Lina_Inverse

07-28-05, 12:20 PM
It will slow down the game since your casters will blow most or all of their spells every encounter, then the characters will sit down so that they can recharge their mana. Since this would be really boring for the characters to do all the time, expect them to continuously say "I search the monster's corpse for useful stuff" and "I search the bookshelf for useful things or hidden switches" and the like, and you then end up having to come up with book titles like "All about Ogres", "A Brief History of Magic", and "The Goblin Wars". They won't ever explore out right after finishing a battle, since that is when they are most vulnerable, and if you interupt them at the five minute mark, they won't know what to do to defend themself, since both the wizard and the cleric are out of spells, and the fighter only got healled back up to half health.

do your pcs get into fights every 10 minutes?
isnt must have 4 encounters a day or its a TPK way more artifcial than the mage saying wait a few minutes while i recharge?
if you interupt your pcs after the 4th encounter the wizard and cleric will be out of spells and the fighter will be at half health.


If you want them to actually be able to run all day, just use the recharge magic, perhaps bumping up the die size if you think it charges too fast. They won't be forced to artificially sit down and admire the scenery if they just want to reach a specific destination without risking being killed, and they will still be able to use their best spells each battle, but be limited in their quantity.

recharge magic isnt an mp system.