Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ever Lonely Ty 01-30-05, 11:48 AM	Many intelligent things suffer from(or sometimes enjoy) an unusual mental fluke known as Asperger's Syndrome, after the Cleric that first documented it. The syndrome's victims naturally have high intelligence, but pay for it by not having much common sense. CREATING AN ASPERGER'S "Asperger's" is a template that can be added to any creature who has an intelligence of at least 8(henceforth, "The base creature"). The creature's type does not change. An Asperger's retains all its ability scores except as noted below. +2 int, -2 wis and cha Obsessive: An Asperger's becomes easily obsessed with things. He gains any knowledge skill as a class skill or(DM's choice) A favored enemy as a first level ranger. Psychosis: An Asperger's is damn weird. He may cast any one cantrip from the Bard's spell list 1/day. Saves: Same as the base creature Abilities: Listed above Skills: Same as base creature Feats: May take one extra feat Climate/Terrain: Any Organization: same as the base creature CR: Unaffected Treasure: same as base creature Alignment: any Advancement: As base creature LA: Undetermined Comments? Questions? Money?
Callista 01-30-05, 12:08 PM	*laughs* Heh... d'you think it should have a level ajdustment?
JaveHarron 01-30-05, 03:13 PM	As someone who has that symdrone, it's very funny. How about bonuses on knowledge checks as well?
Ever Lonely Ty 01-30-05, 05:22 PM	I shouldn't be surprised to have met another Aspie besides myself here, but I am. Hm... that's kind of what the Obsession ability is about. Regarding the second post: not sure about LA. Do you think it merits one?
Kintara 01-30-05, 05:34 PM	I shouldn't be surprised to have met another Aspie besides myself here, but I am. Hm... that's kind of what the Obsession ability is about. Regarding the second post: not sure about LA. Do you think it merits one?Yeah, probably a +1.
Spirit_Golem 01-30-05, 05:50 PM	As a person with Aspergers, when I first read the topic title from the index I thought I would be offended; but now that I have read the post, I think it's damn funny.
HailSpork 01-31-05, 06:28 PM	Ditto. In terms of balance though, it would probably not need an LA if it were just the stat mods and obsessive.
Adrez Nesnsid 01-31-05, 07:18 PM	I have asperger's syndroma as well. I would reccomend replacing the ppenalties to wisdom and charisma with -2 penalties to bluff, diplomacy, intimidate, sense motive, and any one other wisdom or charisma based skill which is determined at/during character creation. Furthermore, there should be a note added to the effect that the penalties overlap, rather than stack, with the penalties to the same skills suffered by a member of the "Alienist" prestige class (from Tome & Blood, and/or "The Complete Arcane". Additionally, the penalties to diplomacy and sense motive should be reduced to -1 when dealing with aberrations and/or outsiders whose alignments are within one step of their own. Also, the syndrome is often associated with impaired motor skills; you might want to add a -2 Dexterity penalty or a small penalty to initiative checks, balance checks, and/or the tumble skill. Also, you might consider giving them more than one knowledge skill as a class skill for all classes that they take, and a +2 competance bonus to knowledge checks relating to some specific subject which covers a much narrower category than any single knowledge skill.
Ascian 01-31-05, 07:53 PM	I guess I'm the only Aspie whose funny-bone wasn't struck. I'm not offended, I just.. fail to find it amusing, or especially necessary. If you want to play an Aspie, just play one. The need for an Asperger's template is about as urgent as the need for Homosexual and Arachnophobic templates. On a mechanical level, I don't think I agree with the bonus to Int, especially if you're only balancing with stat adjustments as someone suggested. I've known some really stupid Aspies. I'd say minor stat bonuses in Knowledge (and possibly Craft and Search) skills, and minor penalties in Spot/Listen and Diplomacy/Sense Motive. Getting a Knowledge skill or a favoured enemy and a free feat? I dunno. Sounds like some great bennies at no major cost. Sorry if I'm raining on your parade. Just sharing my feelings about it. Note that I'm pretty much full-stop against +0 Level Adjustment templates, since that way lies madness. In my opinion this is too strong for +0, not strong enough for +1. Good luck with it.
Adrez Nesnsid 02-01-05, 09:18 AM	I guess I'm the only Aspie whose funny-bone wasn't struck. I'm not offended, I just.. fail to find it amusing, or especially necessary. If you want to play an Aspie, just play one. The need for an Asperger's template is about as urgent as the need for Homosexual and Arachnophobic templates. On a mechanical level, I don't think I agree with the bonus to Int, especially if you're only balancing with stat adjustments as someone suggested. I've known some really stupid Aspies. I'd say minor stat bonuses in Knowledge (and possibly Craft and Search) skills, and minor penalties in Spot/Listen and Diplomacy/Sense Motive. Getting a Knowledge skill or a favoured enemy and a free feat? I dunno. Sounds like some great bennies at no major cost. Sorry if I'm raining on your parade. Just sharing my feelings about it. Note that I'm pretty much full-stop against +0 Level Adjustment templates, since that way lies madness. In my opinion this is too strong for +0, not strong enough for +1. Good luck with it. What if instead of a true 'template' per se, we classified it as more along the lines of the traits listed in the character devolopment section of Unearthed Arcana? (by the way, as for the comment about phobias in the above quote, Unearthed Arcana and Call of Cthulhu D20 both have rules for phobias.)
Quenditar 02-01-05, 05:01 PM	I have asperger's syndroma as well. I would reccomend replacing the ppenalties to wisdom and charisma with -2 penalties to bluff, diplomacy, intimidate, sense motive, and any one other wisdom or charisma based skill which is determined at/during character creation. Furthermore, there should be a note added to the effect that the penalties overlap, rather than stack, with the penalties to the same skills suffered by a member of the "Alienist" prestige class (from Tome & Blood, and/or "The Complete Arcane". Additionally, the penalties to diplomacy and sense motive should be reduced to -1 when dealing with aberrations and/or outsiders whose alignments are within one step of their own. I like this, though a penalty to Wisdom sounds appropriate anyhow. I have Asperger's myself, and I tend to forget things like eating until I feel so sick I have to. Also, the syndrome is often associated with impaired motor skills; you might want to add a -2 Dexterity penalty or a small penalty to initiative checks, balance checks, and/or the tumble skill. I'd say a -2 to Dexterity in general; personally, I have horrid hand-eye coordination but no trouble balancing on narrow beams. Also, you might consider giving them more than one knowledge skill as a class skill for all classes that they take, and a +2 competance bonus to knowledge checks relating to some specific subject which covers a much narrower category than any single knowledge skill. Two knowledge skills, perhaps? If you want to play an Aspie, just play one. The need for an Asperger's template is about as urgent as the need for Homosexual and Arachnophobic templates. Somehow I really don't think this is the point here. I've written up a similar though less detailed template myself - it's what D&D-obsessed people do. On a mechanical level, I don't think I agree with the bonus to Int, especially if you're only balancing with stat adjustments as someone suggested. I've known some really stupid Aspies. On the other hand, I have seen references to studies claiming that Aspies are on average more intelligent than the general population (and isn't that what a stat bonus is about?). I forget whether it was quite a +2, but stat adjustments only come in even numbers. If this is real, it might be part of the syndrome itself - or maybe dumber Aspies are more commonly classified as autistic instead. I'm no expert. I'd say minor stat bonuses in Knowledge (and possibly Craft and Search) skills, and minor penalties in Spot/Listen and Diplomacy/Sense Motive. This would work nicely for a trait-level version. -2 to Spot, Listen, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive for +2 to any three knowledge skills?
Ever Lonely Ty 02-02-05, 08:58 PM	Thank you all for the feedback and suggestions! I will contemplate on them and decide on what to pick to make a balanced but still interesting template.
Hammerhead 02-02-05, 10:32 PM	cha penalty makes sense but why wis? Also this would probly make more sense as a flaw then template.
Exner 02-03-05, 01:53 PM	A bit off topic, but isn't there a society of people with asperger's syndrome who believe that the syndrome is not a mental disability, but rather just a different way of looking at the world and to call it a mental disorder is derogatory? What is that society called?
Adrez Nesnsid 02-03-05, 07:56 PM	A bit off topic, but isn't there a society of people with asperger's syndrome who believe that the syndrome is not a mental disability, but rather just a different way of looking at the world and to call it a mental disorder is derogatory? What is that society called? I'm not sure, but that reflects the way that I think of the condition. I like to think of the difference between people with Asperger's, and regular people, as sort of analogous to the difference (in mental state) between the humans and the vulcans in Star Trek. Kind of... (P.S. In case it wasn't clear, in the above Star Trek analogy I'm likening people with asperger's syndrome to the vulcans, and normal people to the humans in terms of mental and emotional state (although, now that I think of it, I can't help thinking that a more apt analogy might be to liken normal humans to klingons, and people with asperger's to the Q Contunuum (the continuum in general mind you, not just the single individual who kept harassing Picard and his crew)))
Ascian 02-03-05, 08:14 PM	A bit off topic, but isn't there a society of people with asperger's syndrome who believe that the syndrome is not a mental disability, but rather just a different way of looking at the world and to call it a mental disorder is derogatory? What is that society called? The general community of persons with Asperger's.
Ascian 02-03-05, 08:20 PM	What if instead of a true 'template' per se, we classified it as more along the lines of the traits listed in the character devolopment section of Unearthed Arcana? Seems more extensive than most Traits, which deal in one or two bonuses/penalties. I wasn't trying to say how it should be done; I was just lending my perspective. Unrelated, except as Aspie D&D fodder; d8s bug me, because I perseverate on 8s and every d8 that doesn't roll max is like a 8 that's wrong. At the same time, I love d8s because it's like a tangible representation of the number 8 that I can hold in my hand. So.. love them in principle, hate them in practice. :D :shifty: :looloo: :nonono:
Ever Lonely Ty 02-03-05, 09:06 PM	Andres, you take this too seriously...
hiryuu 02-03-05, 09:45 PM	*raises hand* Is fellow Aspie. I am not bothered by this template, except for one thing: it's the social common sense and empathy that's lacking, not normal comon sense. I constantly have to ask people if I'm doing anything wrong or offending them in any way, just to make sure I tread carefully. I've gotten pretty far ahead of most of the others I see, but I'm still a heavy introvert. However, when it come to logical common sense, that comes in spades. Another note: I've read a paper that talks about Asperger's by a woman who has it and studies animal behavior, and she has found through cross-studies that those afflicted with asperger's syndrome often have dialed-up senses (hearing and sight especially, as well as smell). Also, aspies seem to be more sensitive to pressure changes in the atmosphere, such as before storms or other major atmospheric events. And unlike Ascian, I see it as a disorder. It prevents me from functioning in normal society as a regular human being, and that's a problem to be overcome, which means what? Disorder. As in "not a normal state of mind." See, the first step in overcoming the problems of a disorder is admitting that there are problems and not hiding behind words like "it's not a disorder, it's a different state of mind." Heck no, I've got a mental disorder, and I accept that. That's the knowledge that helps me through it. Geez. This is turning into.... not a discussion about the template. Anyway, thumbs up, man.
Adrez Nesnsid 02-04-05, 08:34 AM	And unlike Ascian, I see it as a disorder. It prevents me from functioning in normal society as a regular human being, and that's a problem to be overcome, which means what? Disorder. As in "not a normal state of mind." See, the first step in overcoming the problems of a disorder is admitting that there are problems and not hiding behind words like "it's not a disorder, it's a different state of mind." Heck no, I've got a mental disorder, and I accept that. That's the knowledge that helps me through it. Yes, it prevents normal functioning in human society, but most of the functions that it inhibits do not make very much logical sense anyway, and so the Aspergers Syndrome way of viewing things is, in a way, better, and as I see it, its the :yuck: normals :pbbbtt: whose mental state is like a disorder. The problem's on their end, not ours.