Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Masterful_Norg 03-06-04, 04:07 PM	(Note: If I don't get any replies with the thread's current title I will change it to something that is attention grabbing for all the wrong reasons. You have been Warned :behold: ) I always wonder why it is that strength doesn't affect the movement speed of a creature. The fastest men and women alive are strong individuals so shouldn't stronger characters have more thrust in the legs? I tinkered a tad and came up with this formula, which was totally wrong, but it acted as a starting point: Base Land Speed = # of legs * strength score + 10 if size catagory is medium or larger + 10 if size catagory is huge or larger +10 if size catagory is collosal Anything diminuitive or smaller gets -10 to movement speed and anything with no legs counts as having at least one. Round your result up to the next increment of five feet. Under this system a 4 legged medium or large sized centaur with a strength of 10 has a base land speed of 50, but the real centaur that used to have a base land speed of 50 and a strength of 18 would now have an approximate speed of 85. Therefore this system messes to much with the ballance of the old way in two many aspects. Now a great wyrm red dragon moves at about 210 feet on the ground and 390 in the air if you count wings as being four times the amount of legs. Because of this I think that each point of strength over what is considered the creature or race's average score (listed in the monster manual or 10 + racial modifiers) counts as an extra foot added to base land speed. It counts as twice that for flying speed and half that for swiming or burrowing speed. For purposes of determining a chase or race between two characters with the same movement speed determine their movement speeds to the exact foot. A character may make a strength check while running at top speed to increase his or her land speed by feet equal to the difference between the character's check and the DC which is 20. Failure has no effect. Also, a character may choose to lower the amount of rounds they will be able to spend running by 1 to receive a +5 bonus to such a strength check. They may only spend as many rounds this way as their constitution modifier and only one round can be spent on one full round move action at a time. This resolved an incident where one of my players was not content to have his character watch a race between NPCs, but to actually participate. His base land speed happened to be equivalent with the one of the racers so he wanted to know who would win. I ran the race using an initiative check to determine who started running first after the whistle was blown, but I knew that at different points of a race certain runners speed up and slow down and I also knew that racers in the real world aren't separated by a roll of a 20 sided dice. Their strength and endurance come into play. What do you think about such a system? Has such a system been thought up before because I honestly don't know? If its already hidden in a sidebar or collumn of Unearthed Arcana please note that I haven't yet had the chance to read it entirely as I purchased it jointly with a friend of mine.
SirisC 03-07-04, 01:59 AM	in the skills and options books for 2nd ed there was an option for Dexterity to affect your base movement, I would personally stick with dexterity affecting it.
His Majesty 03-07-04, 04:41 AM	As SirisC pointed out, you should question your ability choice - both str and dex are reasonable. I suggest that you do not try to create a "generic" formula for the speed of all creatures. Instead, I suggest that you determine a base land speed for every creature (and also a base flight / climb / burrowing speed if appropriate) and add to it half the score in the apropriate ability in feet (rounded down). For example, a human would have a base speed of 25 feet. If Bob the wizard (he's human) has 7 strength (assuming that you choose strength), his base speed would be 28 feet. His identical twin, Bob the ranger, has 14 str, so his land speed is 32 feet. Their step-father, Joe the halfling, has a base speed of 15 feet, and 12 str, so his land speed is 21 feet. As a bonus exercise, calculate the land speed of their mother, Barbara, who has 17 str (she's a fast one) and their grand-grandmother, Matilda, a half-elf with 4 str... and the Fleet of Foot feat! :D Sorry, no ideas for sprinting.
strenoth 03-07-04, 06:29 AM	sprinting should be STR based. long distance should be dex based. i've seen plenty of non-strong people who make good long distance runners, partly because pfo good health, butalso ability to hit a decent speed and stay there. strong but think guy couldn't maintain the speed (to much mass to lug around) But same guy ran x-country, to keep in shape for track, where his strong, thick legs = spurts of speed. still won't be accurate. If you realy want to be accurate, include a tabel for weight/height, wiht less weight=better speed, short being better at springs, tall being better at long distance. I ran cross country and track in high school, so I have some limited experience in this. very tired, going to bed now. Night!
SirisC 03-07-04, 10:29 AM	Interesting How about bonus to regular and hustle movement is dex based while running speed is boosted by strength. human Elf Dwarf Halfling base 25 24 10 9 normal + Dex/2 + Dex/2 + Dex/2 + Dex/2 hustle + Dex/2* + Dex/2* + Dex/2* + Dex/2* run + Str/2* + Str/2* + Str/2* + Str/2* * apply bonus before multiplying for increased movement base racial movement is the creatures current movement - (average Dex for race)/2 if you want elf and halfling to be slightly faster than human and dwarf repectivly for normal movement you can always round to the nearest 5 for base movement (up or down)
Myztek 03-07-04, 12:20 PM	In the end, the correlation between strength and 'movement speed' is not incredibly high in real life. I've seen a lot of skiny beanpoles with no upper body strength that can run circles around the average person. I've also seen plenty of muscle bound freaks that might be able to run for days, but couldn't catch a sloth in a race. This type of thing is best handled by feats and encumberance rules.
Norhg 03-07-04, 02:57 PM	Ahem, how could Long distance be affected by Dex? Rather Con I would say... That's what stamina is derived from and consequently a important factor when running. A person who has better is also much more likely to keep a steady pace than a person who happens to be "well cordinated". (admittedly dex will help you put your legs in front of each other, though that shouldn't require a "check")
Masterful_Norg 03-07-04, 05:48 PM	In the end, the correlation between strength and 'movement speed' is not incredibly high in real life. I've seen a lot of skiny beanpoles with no upper body strength that can run circles around the average person. I've also seen plenty of muscle bound freaks that might be able to run for days, but couldn't catch a sloth in a race. The muscle bound freaks would be the ones with good constitution scores. Strength is a factor in sprinting for generating force to propel oneself. Dexterity would be good for determining overall speed. Ahem, how could Long distance be affected by Dex? Rather Con I would say... That's what stamina is derived from and consequently a important factor when running. A person who has better is also much more likely to keep a steady pace than a person who happens to be "well cordinated". (admittedly dex will help you put your legs in front of each other, though that shouldn't require a "check") Agreed.Interesting How about bonus to regular and hustle movement is dex based while running speed is boosted by strength. human Elf Dwarf Halfling base 25 24 10 9 normal + Dex/2 + Dex/2 + Dex/2 + Dex/2 hustle + Dex/2* + Dex/2* + Dex/2* + Dex/2* run + Str/2* + Str/2* + Str/2* + Str/2* * apply bonus before multiplying for increased movement base racial movement is the creatures current movement - (average Dex for race)/2 if you want elf and halfling to be slightly faster than human and dwarf repectivly for normal movement you can always round to the nearest 5 for base movement (up or down) That's the kind of thing I was looking for.
strenoth 03-07-04, 11:19 PM	ah, but to use my example above with the strong guy whpo was a sprinter, he had a high con too, and he probably coudl have kept runnign for more hours out of the day over all, and over the course of say a day he woudl have been able to out pace me, but over 3 miles (for race distance) up to 13 miles (longest practice run) I out paced him, mostly because I was able to simply run faster. but again, it is truly complicated. during the first .75 of a mile I tend to lag behind until i get my 2nd wind, then I start passing people as I pick up speed. How that makes sens,e I don't know. this of course is why they originally decided to give a flat speed per species.
His Majesty 03-08-04, 06:32 AM	SirisC's system is fine, and certainly not too complicated. As for long runs, remember that the runner must continuously make fortitude (maybe con?) checks to keep on running or to keep on running in the same speed. A low dex guy (using SirisC's system) with a high con would win a long race because he keeps his (slower) pace for a longer time. I'm an example for that.. (I'm pretty short and slow but can carry on for a long time). Anyway, people, remember that this is not supposed to be used fo actual races. Just for overland movement and tactical movement. Remember what Strenoth said at the beggining: still won't be accurate. If you really want to be accurate, include a table for weight/height, with less weight=better speed, short being better at springs, tall being better at long distance. While including a height/weight table is possible, it is useless and insignificant. We're not trying to simulate real life racing, we're trying to simulate the fact that some people are faster than others and use it in the game. Anyway, another issue we should consider is this system's effect on tactical movement. Assuming that we're using grids, we can't stick a character between two squares. It's too complicated. *sits down on a log, starts tapping his head* Think-think-think -- think - think...
His Majesty 03-12-04, 03:25 PM	Previously posted by me: Anyway, another issue we should consider is this system's effect on tactical movement. Assuming that we're using grids, we can't stick a character between two squares. It's too complicated. Anybody? Suggestions?
SirisC 03-12-04, 07:58 PM	you could always have bonuses round to the nearest 5 ft increment. (1 and 2 round down, 3,4,5 round up or always round down, your choice)
Glak 03-13-04, 12:14 PM	I'm currently designing a D&D variant where I actually have a strength-based Sprint skill that can be used in combat to go faster. If you want to run down someone who is fleeing battle you make opposed Sprint checks, with the quarry getting +1 per 30 feet head start. Long distance I'm using Con/Fort
Masterful_Norg 03-13-04, 01:56 PM	My friend brought up which way to round it up or down and we decided something like what SirisC suggested. This system works well in games. However, I'm using so many variants that I've started making my own character sheets.
Lady Ishtar 03-14-04, 12:47 AM	what i found works well is adding STR and DEX mods, rounding down to the nearest 5 and adding that to your base move of course chars with low STR or DEX would move more slowly
Masterful_Norg 03-14-04, 11:03 AM	It's the same thing, only simplified.