Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shadowfax7 01-15-06, 10:47 AM	IMC I have as class options a spell-less Ranger and spell-less Bard due to the low-magic/mythological campaign world. My spell-less Ranger variant has been play-tested and used in other's campaigns, from these boards and other places. It is fairly established as a simple balanced option (however, whether it's the best option is a matter of people's opinions and I am not stating it is). My spell-less Bard hasn't been play-tested or used in the campaign yet. Not because of no interest, but because the campaign is closed to new players. I would like opinions on it's balance, since I am stuck on whether it is balanced as is or underpowered. I doubt anyone would think it's overpowered. I will only post the differences: NO ability to cast arcane spells or a spell-list is gained by this variant. Instead at 4th level and at every 3 levels thereafter (7th, 10th, 13th, 16th and 19th) a bonus feat is gained which can be used to obtain ANY general feat (Item Creation and Metamagic feats being useless to this variant). Also, Enchantment spells on the core Bard spell-list can be chosen as Bardic Music abilities which would be available as feats at the same level the spells are available to the core Bard. These Bardic Music abilities have a Bard level requirement, as stated above, and a Perform ranks requirement of Bard level +3. These feats are built similar to Bardic Music feats available in CA, ECS, RoS, etc. I chose to replace the spell-casting ability w/6 bonus feats because I wanted a more versatile Bard class able to gain add'l feats beyond the minimum provided to all classes and chose to start the feats at 4th level otherwise this variant would gain a bonus feat at 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th level !! I also didn't want to step on the Fighter's toes by giving too many bonus feats either. However, is 6 bonus feats enough ?? This allows for a more Bardic Music oriented Bard, or a more fighting oriented Bard, or a more roguish Bard. Depending on the player's feat choices.
SmiloDan 01-15-06, 11:24 PM	I like the bardic music options. And I like the idea of getting bonus +2/+2 feats for the bard. But I'm not sure about the bard getting bonus feats from the fighter list of feats. It doesn't seem too bardy to me, but then again, you probably have a different idea about what a bard is all about. I guess it would be OK if they took feats like Weapon Finesse and Two Weapon Fighting and Point Blank Shot and Combat Expertise, but I really don't see a bard using Power Attack and Spirited Charge. Also, it does step on the fighter's toes a bit. If a PC wants to play a fighty bard, they can play a bard/fighter. But I really like the idea of expanding the Bardic Music selections. You might want to drop the fighter-type bonus feats and give them more skill points. It's hard messing with the bard. Combat-wise, they're the weakest, but they can really help a party out with their buffing songs. Also, they're fun to roleplay. We have (had?) an Aristocrat/Bard in the party I play in. I'm the Scout tank, and we have a wizard/ranger too. So we're not the most optimized party. I've only played a bard once, and he was a summoning specialist, but I only got to play him for one session. He did OK.
Koga:The ninja trick 01-15-06, 11:35 PM	Not what The Koga would've done for either classes, but glad to see somebody else doesn't like the idea of everyone and thier mother having spells. Good job. :)
Shadowfax7 01-17-06, 10:35 AM	I like the bardic music options. And I like the idea of getting bonus +2/+2 feats for the bard. But I'm not sure about the bard getting bonus feats from the fighter list of feats. It doesn't seem too bardy to me, but then again, you probably have a different idea about what a bard is all about. I guess it would be OK if they took feats like Weapon Finesse and Two Weapon Fighting and Point Blank Shot and Combat Expertise, but I really don't see a bard using Power Attack and Spirited Charge. Also, it does step on the fighter's toes a bit. If a PC wants to play a fighty bard, they can play a bard/fighter. But I really like the idea of expanding the Bardic Music selections. You might want to drop the fighter-type bonus feats and give them more skill points. It's hard messing with the bard. Combat-wise, they're the weakest, but they can really help a party out with their buffing songs. Also, they're fun to roleplay. We have (had?) an Aristocrat/Bard in the party I play in. I'm the Scout tank, and we have a wizard/ranger too. So we're not the most optimized party. I've only played a bard once, and he was a summoning specialist, but I only got to play him for one session. He did OK. Thanx for your response. The reason I allow any general feat, including Fighter-type feats, is that this variant is supposed to be "versatile", thus if a player wanted to play a more fighting Bard, such as a Skald (from Norse legends/history), he could by picking the proper feats. I agree that bonus feats, including fighter-type feats, step on the Fighter's toes, my solution was NOT to give too many bonus feats by limiting it to 6, which is 55% of what a Fighter gets. What do you think of that limitation ?? Do you still feel they shouldn't have any bonus feats chosen from fighter-type feats ?? Not what The Koga would've done for either classes, but glad to see somebody else doesn't like the idea of everyone and thier mother having spells. Good job. :) It is imperative that spell-using classes are limited in an Ancient Europe campaign world, but yes, I agree that tooooo many classes can use spells. Anyone else have any comments ??