paladin houserules [Archive] - Wizards Community

paladin houserules [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
LiefKarakse
02-01-07, 08:48 PM what paladin house rules do you have?
Tequila_Sunrise
02-01-07, 09:18 PM They can be any alignment and suffer no multiclassing restictions. That's it.
ConradBland
02-01-07, 11:02 PM Simple. No paladins.
Krusk
02-01-07, 11:35 PM We use the revamped palidin from this board but modified a bit for our own setting.

We also have the player write up a code of conduct with the DM and they agree on it befor the game starts. We make keep LG and multiclass penalties.
LiefKarakse
02-02-07, 12:08 AM We use the revamped palidin from this board but modified a bit for our own setting.

We also have the player write up a code of conduct with the DM and they agree on it befor the game starts. We make keep LG and multiclass penalties.

can you link me?
Jodjod
02-02-07, 01:22 AM Simple. No paladins.
Same here.
Gemstone
02-02-07, 08:24 AM 1) Paladins can be of any "Lawful alignment"
2) No multiclass restrictions
3) Lesser of two evil is counted as the "good choice"
pres_man
02-02-07, 10:35 AM Can multiclass without restriction, alignment permitting of course (as can monks).
Millennium
02-02-07, 11:18 AM RAW is pretty vague on what the paladin's code actually says, other than that willfully committing Evil acts is a huge no-no and acting dishonorable is almost as bad.

With that in mind, I've been working up a set of several different paladin codes, all fitting within the RAW (e.g. "Do no Evil" is the highest law for all of them) but describing different archetypes. A player may, on taking his first level of paladin, pick one of these codes to follow; the chosen code represents the laws of his order. Once a code is chosen, the only way to change it is by changing which order you affiliate yourself with, which is a lot like clerics changing deities.

I haven't finished all of the codes I want to do yet, but here are my first four:

The Code of Honor

Personally, I believe that this code comes to the intent of the RAW. I consider it to be the default code, the one that paladins are assumed to play by if the player doesn't consider anything else.
Above all else, do no Evil. Your purity is your most powerful weapon, and while others might sacrifice their purity in the name of Good, that path is not yours to take.
Conduct yourself with honor in all things, for people look to you as a model of justice and goodness.
Beware of conflicts between Law and Good. Many paladins have Fallen when a conflict caused them to start placing one over the other.
If you must choose between what is just and what is good, then choose what is good, for you cannot go wrong by doing right. But seek to reaffirm your commitment to justice as soon as you can, lest you be pulled off your narrow path.
Respect legitimate authority and follow just laws, but do not hesitate to resist unjust rule.
Fight when you must, even kill when you must, but be quick to show mercy to those who ask for it.

The Code of Justice

This code emphasizes Law and justice, but it warns the paladin repeatedly not to lose sight of Good. Despite these warnings, however, this code is still a bit more sinister than the Code of Honor.
Above all else, do no Evil. Sacrificing your purity deprives the cosmos of a powerful weapon against Evil.
Conduct yourself with honor in all things, for your behavior serves as a model to others and promotes a more orderly, civil world.
Beware of false dilemmas. There is truly no choice between justice and Good, because justice is Good enshrined in Law. But take care that in carrying out justice you are not decieved into doing Evil; even inaction is preferable to this, for no Evil can be just.
Respect the authority and laws of the land. Use law to change law if you must, but always beware of undermining the rule of law in general. If chaos spreads, Evil will spread with it.
Show mercy to those who deserve it, but do not let yourself be fooled by crocodile's tears.

The Code of Purity

This code emphasizes preserving the personal purity of a paladin. It follows from a literal reading of the RAW. Interestingly enough, it also offers the most leeway for a sinister paladin-figure, such as an inquisitor.
Above all else, do no Evil, lest it eat your purity away.
Shun the company of Evil, lest you be tempted toward Evil yourself.
Act honorably in all things, for dishonor leads to temptation.
Destroy Evil whenever you must, or it will destroy you.

The Code of Redemption

This code holds up paladins primarily as leaders and examples to be followed, rather than crusaders out destroying Evil. Of course, paladins of redemption do not shrink from adventure any more than any other, but adventures are considered means to an end, rather than an end in themselves.
Above all else, do no Evil. People look to paladins as unhypocritical followers of Good, and that must not be compromised.
Conduct yourself with honor in all things, lest honor in society become twisted.
Law is a powerful tool of Good, but it is dangerous because it can be twisted. Beware of false dilemmas: Good is the ultimate Law.
Seek to inspire Good in all around you, uplifting those who have not committed themselves to Good and encouraging those who have. It is better to redeem than to destroy.
Krusk
02-02-07, 11:42 AM can you link me?

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=761045

that is the most recent version i believe. Its is probably very very similar to the one we use. We did a spell less varient and upped some of its numerical bonuses.
Hochiu
02-02-07, 12:22 PM what paladin house rules do you have?

Almost a complete lack of emphasis on alignment for me, as I take the interpretation that they're more guidelines and examples of how characters act as opposed to hardline rules.

Paladins must be a member of a church in my game (clerics too, I hate the "dedicated to a cause" junk that they can do) and must reflect the teachings and outlook of that church over all others. Mostly though, I ask for my players to tell me how they want to act and if they want, a personal code of conduct that they follow as well (which I compare to how well it meshes to the order's) and I make my decisions on how well they're doing by their actions. I've never once had to throw the book at a paladin player yet.

Multiclassing I haven't thought too far into yet, but I'll probably restrict it to Non-Chaotic/Non-Arcane spellcasting classes for the most part.
Devil Gnasher
02-03-07, 01:50 AM Paladins gain perform (any), bluff (mostly for gambling), intimedate, and knowledge (history, engineering, card games [like poker or bridge], and geography) as class skills. They must quest to find their war mounts and can not summon or dismiss them. This said, paladins can multiclass freely.
Krusk
02-03-07, 04:18 PM Paladins gain perform (any), bluff (mostly for gambling), intimedate, and knowledge (history, engineering, card games [like poker or bridge], and geography) as class skills. They must quest to find their war mounts and can not summon or dismiss them. This said, paladins can multiclass freely.

Why all the gambeling skills?
BennyK
02-03-07, 05:35 PM In mine:
Paladins are the chosen representative of a god (every god has them). They are Joan of Arc types, not Templars or Knights of the Grail etc. (there are NO orders of paladins; paladins are fairly rare). They must follow a deity, they must have the deities alignment. Their responsibility is not to uphold an alignment or code, per se, but to be the living embodiment and example of that gods ideals. This is ideally done by asking what the player wants the paladin to be about, then choosing the most applicable god with them (reduces later misunderstandings about their role and responsibilities).
Their mount is a real animal, it can not be summoned or dismissed (been meaning to give something to balance this, probably Heal Mount spell once per day). Hence the mount is introduced in play, not so much having to quest for it, more like 'divine providence' or a sign/omen.
Other abilities are altered to reflect alignment/god. It's not that hard to work out, True Neutral is the only tricky one (their powers become based around opposing 'extremists' - those without a Neutral in their alignment) ... If you get stumped there was a article in Dragon about it somewhere...
Note: For lay on hands, although for paladins of evil or death this does negative energy to others it still heals the paladin.
Devil Gnasher
02-03-07, 06:45 PM Why all the gambeling skills?

Simple. Paladins are not armored monks (well not in most cases), they are gentlemanly soldiers (or ladylike soldiers, for women) with certain divine blessings. As such their lives are not simply filled with fighting, prayer, meal time, or fasting, but also include some leisurely activities. These activities include hunting, fencing, reading, target practice, polo, debating philosophy, horseracing, singing, dancing, "enjoing the company" of a certain special loved one, social drinking of alcohol (if said paladin's culture and religion allow it), and yes, gambling (see social drinking).
Rhialto
02-03-07, 07:30 PM Paladins don't exist. Instead, there are templars, warriors dedicated to a single deity. Their code of conduct and powers vary by deity.
Alex_
02-03-07, 07:36 PM I treat them like Evil Clerics. Evil Paladin gets the evil equivalent of normal Paladin abilities and a neutral Paladin has to choose at character creation. They don't fall for slipping up once or twice. They only fall in situations where a Cleric would also lose their powers.

I use the non-spellcasting variant of the Paladin class found in Complete Warrior
OneWinged4ngel
02-03-07, 07:50 PM what paladin house rules do you have?

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=761045

This seems to be a popular and effective solution :)
Krusk
02-04-07, 12:17 AM Simple. Paladins are not armored monks (well not in most cases), they are gentlemanly soldiers (or ladylike soldiers, for women) with certain divine blessings. As such their lives are not simply filled with fighting, prayer, meal time, or fasting, but also include some leisurely activities. These activities include hunting, fencing, reading, target practice, polo, debating philosophy, horseracing, singing, dancing, "enjoing the company" of a certain special loved one, social drinking of alcohol (if said paladin's culture and religion allow it), and yes, gambling (see social drinking).

Still seems like it shouldnt be made a class skill. I totally agree that it is something they are allowed to and do do. but not that they should gain these skills as class skills. I dont see it hurting anything though, just curious.
xandros2000
02-06-07, 06:05 PM This is more world specific rather than my general house rules, but in my world/campaign, Paladins are a prestige class. It can be reached the quickest at 4th level by multiclassing cleric and Fighter. They must have a patron diety and act as that dieties hand. They must follow all the tenets of that diety and must also choose 2 vows. These vows are like flaws but they dont gain any feats for these flaws, only the special abilities of the paladin.
PiedmonSama
02-06-07, 06:11 PM I like the nonmagical variant from Complete Warrior and the Prestige version from Unearthed Arcana, but have yet to try either. My only modification to the class as a DM is the Association rule. It's just dumb on several levels--so the Paladin can never try to reform or peacefully change the ways of an evil character?

EDIT: Actually, I've got a few more that are a bit more world-specific (oy, the way my brain works...)

-Paladins must have a patron deity and live by that deity's tenants. They are almost always part of a church, order or some larger entity. (A few loner Paladins exist out in the "boonies," but they almost always cooperate with the authorities in any case.)

-If he is a Paladin of Pelor or St. Cuthbert, the Paladin is expected to go his life chaste and unmarried, so long as he is a member of the church. Paladins are supposed to devote their life to their deity and his causes, and a family would interfere with this. Paladins of Heironeus, on the other hand, are actually expected at some point to settle down with another Paladin of Heironeus and breed more little warriors for the Temple.
ShinoAburame
02-07-07, 07:03 PM Smite can be used for range. (I prefer range over melee)
Paladins like all divine classes, require a diety to worship. (Thus this will determine thier "code of conduct")
Paladins can freely multiclass.

I don't see why people feel the paladin has to be such an abstract concept. As far as i'm concerned, the paladin is just a holy knight. His nitch is beating the crap out of things better then anybody else with the [evil] tag.
nightwing
02-08-07, 08:48 AM http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=761045

This seems to be a popular and effective solution :)

Is there a similar fix for rangers?
Krusk
02-08-07, 12:10 PM Not nearly as well or throrough

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=777227

is a small fix/power boost.
OneWinged4ngel
02-08-07, 01:26 PM Is there a similar fix for rangers?

I originally intended to do the ranger too, but that just kinda got tossed aside and ignored after a while >_>

Might eventually do it. I was going to enhance spellcasting in a way similar to the Paladin, expand the combat style options, make the animal companion *not* be a liability, and totally revamp Favored Enemy to have various special abilities and techniques that are helpful against various enemies (but best against the chosen type). For example, energy resistance and stuff for the dragon slayer or something.
Hochiu
02-12-07, 01:27 PM I'm working on completely severing both the Paladin and Ranger classes from their magic abilities. I feel that because Wizards seems to think that magic is an acceptable power fix, you'll actually end up with a lot more abilities/more powerful abilities without spellcasting.

That and I like lower magic games.
Krusk
02-13-07, 12:26 AM i always opt for a nonmagic paladin or ranger if i can. Helps keep down mad, and the concept to me is silly. I dont want to be a crusader who casts spells. I want to be a crusader who strikes down my enemy. I dont want to be a woodsman with spells, i want to be a woodsman who is amazing at living in the woods.
xandros2000
02-13-07, 01:09 AM I cant recall any stories of rangers with any magical abilities before D&D. Where did they come up with that idea?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LiefKarakse 02-01-07, 08:48 PM	what paladin house rules do you have?
Tequila_Sunrise 02-01-07, 09:18 PM	They can be any alignment and suffer no multiclassing restictions. That's it.
ConradBland 02-01-07, 11:02 PM	Simple. No paladins.
Krusk 02-01-07, 11:35 PM	We use the revamped palidin from this board but modified a bit for our own setting. We also have the player write up a code of conduct with the DM and they agree on it befor the game starts. We make keep LG and multiclass penalties.
LiefKarakse 02-02-07, 12:08 AM	We use the revamped palidin from this board but modified a bit for our own setting. We also have the player write up a code of conduct with the DM and they agree on it befor the game starts. We make keep LG and multiclass penalties. can you link me?
Jodjod 02-02-07, 01:22 AM	Simple. No paladins. Same here.
Gemstone 02-02-07, 08:24 AM	1) Paladins can be of any "Lawful alignment" 2) No multiclass restrictions 3) Lesser of two evil is counted as the "good choice"
pres_man 02-02-07, 10:35 AM	Can multiclass without restriction, alignment permitting of course (as can monks).
Millennium 02-02-07, 11:18 AM	RAW is pretty vague on what the paladin's code actually says, other than that willfully committing Evil acts is a huge no-no and acting dishonorable is almost as bad. With that in mind, I've been working up a set of several different paladin codes, all fitting within the RAW (e.g. "Do no Evil" is the highest law for all of them) but describing different archetypes. A player may, on taking his first level of paladin, pick one of these codes to follow; the chosen code represents the laws of his order. Once a code is chosen, the only way to change it is by changing which order you affiliate yourself with, which is a lot like clerics changing deities. I haven't finished all of the codes I want to do yet, but here are my first four: The Code of Honor Personally, I believe that this code comes to the intent of the RAW. I consider it to be the default code, the one that paladins are assumed to play by if the player doesn't consider anything else. Above all else, do no Evil. Your purity is your most powerful weapon, and while others might sacrifice their purity in the name of Good, that path is not yours to take. Conduct yourself with honor in all things, for people look to you as a model of justice and goodness. Beware of conflicts between Law and Good. Many paladins have Fallen when a conflict caused them to start placing one over the other. If you must choose between what is just and what is good, then choose what is good, for you cannot go wrong by doing right. But seek to reaffirm your commitment to justice as soon as you can, lest you be pulled off your narrow path. Respect legitimate authority and follow just laws, but do not hesitate to resist unjust rule. Fight when you must, even kill when you must, but be quick to show mercy to those who ask for it. The Code of Justice This code emphasizes Law and justice, but it warns the paladin repeatedly not to lose sight of Good. Despite these warnings, however, this code is still a bit more sinister than the Code of Honor. Above all else, do no Evil. Sacrificing your purity deprives the cosmos of a powerful weapon against Evil. Conduct yourself with honor in all things, for your behavior serves as a model to others and promotes a more orderly, civil world. Beware of false dilemmas. There is truly no choice between justice and Good, because justice is Good enshrined in Law. But take care that in carrying out justice you are not decieved into doing Evil; even inaction is preferable to this, for no Evil can be just. Respect the authority and laws of the land. Use law to change law if you must, but always beware of undermining the rule of law in general. If chaos spreads, Evil will spread with it. Show mercy to those who deserve it, but do not let yourself be fooled by crocodile's tears. The Code of Purity This code emphasizes preserving the personal purity of a paladin. It follows from a literal reading of the RAW. Interestingly enough, it also offers the most leeway for a sinister paladin-figure, such as an inquisitor. Above all else, do no Evil, lest it eat your purity away. Shun the company of Evil, lest you be tempted toward Evil yourself. Act honorably in all things, for dishonor leads to temptation. Destroy Evil whenever you must, or it will destroy you. The Code of Redemption This code holds up paladins primarily as leaders and examples to be followed, rather than crusaders out destroying Evil. Of course, paladins of redemption do not shrink from adventure any more than any other, but adventures are considered means to an end, rather than an end in themselves. Above all else, do no Evil. People look to paladins as unhypocritical followers of Good, and that must not be compromised. Conduct yourself with honor in all things, lest honor in society become twisted. Law is a powerful tool of Good, but it is dangerous because it can be twisted. Beware of false dilemmas: Good is the ultimate Law. Seek to inspire Good in all around you, uplifting those who have not committed themselves to Good and encouraging those who have. It is better to redeem than to destroy.
Krusk 02-02-07, 11:42 AM	can you link me? http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=761045 that is the most recent version i believe. Its is probably very very similar to the one we use. We did a spell less varient and upped some of its numerical bonuses.
Hochiu 02-02-07, 12:22 PM	what paladin house rules do you have? Almost a complete lack of emphasis on alignment for me, as I take the interpretation that they're more guidelines and examples of how characters act as opposed to hardline rules. Paladins must be a member of a church in my game (clerics too, I hate the "dedicated to a cause" junk that they can do) and must reflect the teachings and outlook of that church over all others. Mostly though, I ask for my players to tell me how they want to act and if they want, a personal code of conduct that they follow as well (which I compare to how well it meshes to the order's) and I make my decisions on how well they're doing by their actions. I've never once had to throw the book at a paladin player yet. Multiclassing I haven't thought too far into yet, but I'll probably restrict it to Non-Chaotic/Non-Arcane spellcasting classes for the most part.
Devil Gnasher 02-03-07, 01:50 AM	Paladins gain perform (any), bluff (mostly for gambling), intimedate, and knowledge (history, engineering, card games [like poker or bridge], and geography) as class skills. They must quest to find their war mounts and can not summon or dismiss them. This said, paladins can multiclass freely.
Krusk 02-03-07, 04:18 PM	Paladins gain perform (any), bluff (mostly for gambling), intimedate, and knowledge (history, engineering, card games [like poker or bridge], and geography) as class skills. They must quest to find their war mounts and can not summon or dismiss them. This said, paladins can multiclass freely. Why all the gambeling skills?
BennyK 02-03-07, 05:35 PM	In mine: Paladins are the chosen representative of a god (every god has them). They are Joan of Arc types, not Templars or Knights of the Grail etc. (there are NO orders of paladins; paladins are fairly rare). They must follow a deity, they must have the deities alignment. Their responsibility is not to uphold an alignment or code, per se, but to be the living embodiment and example of that gods ideals. This is ideally done by asking what the player wants the paladin to be about, then choosing the most applicable god with them (reduces later misunderstandings about their role and responsibilities). Their mount is a real animal, it can not be summoned or dismissed (been meaning to give something to balance this, probably Heal Mount spell once per day). Hence the mount is introduced in play, not so much having to quest for it, more like 'divine providence' or a sign/omen. Other abilities are altered to reflect alignment/god. It's not that hard to work out, True Neutral is the only tricky one (their powers become based around opposing 'extremists' - those without a Neutral in their alignment) ... If you get stumped there was a article in Dragon about it somewhere... Note: For lay on hands, although for paladins of evil or death this does negative energy to others it still heals the paladin.
Devil Gnasher 02-03-07, 06:45 PM	Why all the gambeling skills? Simple. Paladins are not armored monks (well not in most cases), they are gentlemanly soldiers (or ladylike soldiers, for women) with certain divine blessings. As such their lives are not simply filled with fighting, prayer, meal time, or fasting, but also include some leisurely activities. These activities include hunting, fencing, reading, target practice, polo, debating philosophy, horseracing, singing, dancing, "enjoing the company" of a certain special loved one, social drinking of alcohol (if said paladin's culture and religion allow it), and yes, gambling (see social drinking).
Rhialto 02-03-07, 07:30 PM	Paladins don't exist. Instead, there are templars, warriors dedicated to a single deity. Their code of conduct and powers vary by deity.
Alex_ 02-03-07, 07:36 PM	I treat them like Evil Clerics. Evil Paladin gets the evil equivalent of normal Paladin abilities and a neutral Paladin has to choose at character creation. They don't fall for slipping up once or twice. They only fall in situations where a Cleric would also lose their powers. I use the non-spellcasting variant of the Paladin class found in Complete Warrior
OneWinged4ngel 02-03-07, 07:50 PM	what paladin house rules do you have? http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=761045 This seems to be a popular and effective solution :)
Krusk 02-04-07, 12:17 AM	Simple. Paladins are not armored monks (well not in most cases), they are gentlemanly soldiers (or ladylike soldiers, for women) with certain divine blessings. As such their lives are not simply filled with fighting, prayer, meal time, or fasting, but also include some leisurely activities. These activities include hunting, fencing, reading, target practice, polo, debating philosophy, horseracing, singing, dancing, "enjoing the company" of a certain special loved one, social drinking of alcohol (if said paladin's culture and religion allow it), and yes, gambling (see social drinking). Still seems like it shouldnt be made a class skill. I totally agree that it is something they are allowed to and do do. but not that they should gain these skills as class skills. I dont see it hurting anything though, just curious.
xandros2000 02-06-07, 06:05 PM	This is more world specific rather than my general house rules, but in my world/campaign, Paladins are a prestige class. It can be reached the quickest at 4th level by multiclassing cleric and Fighter. They must have a patron diety and act as that dieties hand. They must follow all the tenets of that diety and must also choose 2 vows. These vows are like flaws but they dont gain any feats for these flaws, only the special abilities of the paladin.
PiedmonSama 02-06-07, 06:11 PM	I like the nonmagical variant from Complete Warrior and the Prestige version from Unearthed Arcana, but have yet to try either. My only modification to the class as a DM is the Association rule. It's just dumb on several levels--so the Paladin can never try to reform or peacefully change the ways of an evil character? EDIT: Actually, I've got a few more that are a bit more world-specific (oy, the way my brain works...) -Paladins must have a patron deity and live by that deity's tenants. They are almost always part of a church, order or some larger entity. (A few loner Paladins exist out in the "boonies," but they almost always cooperate with the authorities in any case.) -If he is a Paladin of Pelor or St. Cuthbert, the Paladin is expected to go his life chaste and unmarried, so long as he is a member of the church. Paladins are supposed to devote their life to their deity and his causes, and a family would interfere with this. Paladins of Heironeus, on the other hand, are actually expected at some point to settle down with another Paladin of Heironeus and breed more little warriors for the Temple.
ShinoAburame 02-07-07, 07:03 PM	Smite can be used for range. (I prefer range over melee) Paladins like all divine classes, require a diety to worship. (Thus this will determine thier "code of conduct") Paladins can freely multiclass. I don't see why people feel the paladin has to be such an abstract concept. As far as i'm concerned, the paladin is just a holy knight. His nitch is beating the crap out of things better then anybody else with the [evil] tag.
nightwing 02-08-07, 08:48 AM	http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=761045 This seems to be a popular and effective solution :) Is there a similar fix for rangers?
Krusk 02-08-07, 12:10 PM	Not nearly as well or throrough http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=777227 is a small fix/power boost.
OneWinged4ngel 02-08-07, 01:26 PM	Is there a similar fix for rangers? I originally intended to do the ranger too, but that just kinda got tossed aside and ignored after a while >_> Might eventually do it. I was going to enhance spellcasting in a way similar to the Paladin, expand the combat style options, make the animal companion not be a liability, and totally revamp Favored Enemy to have various special abilities and techniques that are helpful against various enemies (but best against the chosen type). For example, energy resistance and stuff for the dragon slayer or something.
Hochiu 02-12-07, 01:27 PM	I'm working on completely severing both the Paladin and Ranger classes from their magic abilities. I feel that because Wizards seems to think that magic is an acceptable power fix, you'll actually end up with a lot more abilities/more powerful abilities without spellcasting. That and I like lower magic games.
Krusk 02-13-07, 12:26 AM	i always opt for a nonmagic paladin or ranger if i can. Helps keep down mad, and the concept to me is silly. I dont want to be a crusader who casts spells. I want to be a crusader who strikes down my enemy. I dont want to be a woodsman with spells, i want to be a woodsman who is amazing at living in the woods.
xandros2000 02-13-07, 01:09 AM	I cant recall any stories of rangers with any magical abilities before D&D. Where did they come up with that idea?