Parry, Any House Rules That Work? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Parry, Any House Rules That Work? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DrakePD
03-27-07, 05:23 PM We are considering adding a parry option in combat in our 3.5 campaign. Have any of you come across or use a house rule for parry?
starfire311
03-27-07, 06:58 PM We are considering adding a parry option in combat in our 3.5 campaign. Have any of you come across or use a house rule for parry?

Are you considoring parry as an opposed check?

I have seen options for parrying, and some houserules that other players have used. I know there are ToB manuevers that let you parry as an immediate action.

I think it is hard to add parry, because it is already assumed that you are passivly parrying, and if you are activly parrying that is what CE and fighting defensivly is.

Anyway, I have a houserule that I use, for armor as DR, I grant a parry bonus to AC, that is equalt to 1/2 the BAB of the character, it functions just like a shield bonus, except it is called parry so it will stack with shields. I also grant a dodge bonus to AC equal to base reflex save.
Illithid_Tentacles
03-27-07, 07:08 PM There are already rules for parrying. It's called Fighting Defensively. There's also the Combat Expertise feat for people who want to be better at it.
JustinA
03-27-07, 07:10 PM We are considering adding a parry option in combat in our 3.5 campaign. Have any of you come across or use a house rule for parry?

Your best bet is coming at this from several directions, giving your characters several defensive options (some out of turn, others designating a particular fighting style):

Fight Defensively [Free]
When using the attack action or the full attack action in melee, before making attack rolls for a round, you may choose to accept a penalty on all attacks from the round in order to gain a bonus to your AC. For every -2 penalty you accept, you gain a +1 dodge bonus to your AC. (For example, by accepting a -6 penalty, you would gain a +1 dodge bonus to your AC.) The total penalty cannot exceed your base attack bonus, although characters with low base attack bonuses (less than +4) can still accept a -4 penalty to their attack rolls for a +1 dodge bonus to their AC. The penalty to attacks and bonus to AC apply until your next turn.
Total Defense: When using the attack action or the full attack action in melee, you can sacrifice all of your attacks and dedicate yourself to a total defense. You gain a +2 dodge bonus to your AC for each melee attack that you would normally make. (For example, if you could normally make three attacks using the full attack action, then you could gain a +6 dodge bonus to AC for using total defense as a full action.) This bonus is in addition to the normal bonus you would receive for fighting defensively or using Combat Expertise at your maximum penalty.

(You should remove the cap on Combat Expertise, although the penalty should not be allowed to exceed your BAB. This makes it look more like Power Attack.)

Parry
If a character is armed with a melee weapon, they can sacrifice an attack of opportunity as an immediate action to gain a dodge bonus against a single attack. The character gains a +1 dodge bonus for each iterative attack they could normally make with a full attack action. The character must be able to apply your Dexterity bonus to AC against the attack (so a character can't use a parry while flat-footed, for example). If a character can take more than one attack of opportunity, they may still only make a single parry against any given attack.

Out-of-Turn Dodge [Immediate] (adapted from Unearthed Arcana)
Any time a character is about to be attacked, they can give up their next turn to gain a +4 dodge bonus to their AC. A character must be able to apply their Dexterity bonus to AC against the attack (so a character can’t use an out-of-turn dodge while flat-footed, for example) and the out-of-turn dodge is declared before the attack roll is made. The character’s initiative does not change, they simply do not take an action on their next turn. The character gains this dodge bonus until the next time their initiative comes up after their “skipped” turn.

Some feat ideas (unlike the above, these have not been playtested):

[i]Improved Parrying (feat): This feat allows you to expend an attack of opportunity to gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC vs. one attack. If you can take multiple attacks of opportunity, you can expend multiple attacks vs. a single attack (thus, expending two AoOs, could give you a +4 bonus against one attack).

Parrying Mastery (feat): Set Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Improved Parrying, and Weapon Specialization as pre-reqs. When using a weapon you've specialized in, you can expend an attack of opportunity to double the dodge bonuses to AC from your Combat Expertise and Improved Parrying vs. one attack. (You can only use Parrying Mastery once against each attack, but you can still expend multiple AoOs using Improved Parrying and double the bonus from each.)

Supernatural Parry (feat): Set Combat Expertise and Improved Parrying as pre-reqs. This feat allows you to expend an attack of opportunity to literally parry magical attacks, granting you a +2 bonus to your Reflex save vs. one spell.

Improved Supernatural Parry (feat): The bonus to Reflex saves is increased to +4.

Two-Weapon Defense Expertise (feat): Set Combat Expertise and Two-Weapon Defense as pre-reqs. When using Combat Expertise and wielding two weapons, you gain a shield bonus to AC equal to half the dodge bonus granted by Combat Expertise. This replaces the shield bonus granted by Two-Weapon Defense.

Justin Alexander
http://www.thealexandrian.net
Valk
03-28-07, 07:19 AM Parry does not improve the D&D experience. Opposed rolls suck and I do not think melee attacks need to be further weakened.

If parry is worth it it will mean that in total less melee attacks will hit and that is not good.
I have seen parry rules integrated in other games, in these games magic is much weaker or rarer. In these games the prime method of dispensing of opponents are melee attacks or sometimes physical attacks in general.

But with D&D being much more magic-dominant the opportunity to make a melee attack in the first place or even a *drool* full attack is special or exciting enough. You do not need the special moment where your attack is not parried.
RealSorceror
03-28-07, 11:19 AM I've played a d20 game based on the Game of Thrones book series.
In that system, you roll your AC for each round. Basically, you do not add the base AC of 10 to your Armor Class. Instead, you roll a d20 and add your Dex, sheild, and armor bonus, etc to the roll, and that is your AC for the round.
This method slows down melee combat a great deal, which is terrible if you have more than a few players, or a long encounter. I ended up only using that system during 1 on 1 fights, just to dramatize the fight and to make less important encounters move faster.
DrakePD
03-28-07, 05:03 PM Lots of good information and advice here. Thanks guys.

We are still considering adding some sort of parry, but I think what we are going to try first is use a little more flavor and description in our combat scenes before we try and modify or add to the core rules. Basically we need to Role play more and Roll play less. :rolleyes:

Again, Thanks guys for your input, we will look these over and see if anything fits our game style.
JustinA
03-28-07, 11:44 PM I've played a d20 game based on the Game of Thrones book series.
In that system, you roll your AC for each round. Basically, you do not add the base AC of 10 to your Armor Class. Instead, you roll a d20 and add your Dex, sheild, and armor bonus, etc to the roll, and that is your AC for the round.
This method slows down melee combat a great deal, which is terrible if you have more than a few players, or a long encounter. I ended up only using that system during 1 on 1 fights, just to dramatize the fight and to make less important encounters move faster.

A nice variant on this is to make it so that the players roll all the dice during combat.

The players are making an attack? Then they roll the dice, add their attack roll, and compare their result to AC (which is 10 + the monster's AC bonuses).

The players are being attacked? Then they roll the dice, add their armor bonuses, and compare their result to the monster's Attack Value (which is 10 + their attack bonuses).

This is no slower than normal play (because the same number of dice are being rolled), but it means that the players are always actively engaged with both their characters' offense and defense.

You can do the same thing with saving throws vs. the player's spells: The player's roll 1d20 + spell level + ability modifier and compare it to the monster's save (10 + saving throw bonus).

Justin Alexander
http://www.thealexandrian.net
bobothechimp
04-02-07, 07:36 AM Fighting defensively, combat expertise, total defense, two-weapon defense, and that one feat that lets you improve AC while wielding only a one-handed weapon one-handed all work for this.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DrakePD 03-27-07, 05:23 PM	We are considering adding a parry option in combat in our 3.5 campaign. Have any of you come across or use a house rule for parry?
starfire311 03-27-07, 06:58 PM	We are considering adding a parry option in combat in our 3.5 campaign. Have any of you come across or use a house rule for parry? Are you considoring parry as an opposed check? I have seen options for parrying, and some houserules that other players have used. I know there are ToB manuevers that let you parry as an immediate action. I think it is hard to add parry, because it is already assumed that you are passivly parrying, and if you are activly parrying that is what CE and fighting defensivly is. Anyway, I have a houserule that I use, for armor as DR, I grant a parry bonus to AC, that is equalt to 1/2 the BAB of the character, it functions just like a shield bonus, except it is called parry so it will stack with shields. I also grant a dodge bonus to AC equal to base reflex save.
Illithid_Tentacles 03-27-07, 07:08 PM	There are already rules for parrying. It's called Fighting Defensively. There's also the Combat Expertise feat for people who want to be better at it.
JustinA 03-27-07, 07:10 PM	We are considering adding a parry option in combat in our 3.5 campaign. Have any of you come across or use a house rule for parry? Your best bet is coming at this from several directions, giving your characters several defensive options (some out of turn, others designating a particular fighting style): Fight Defensively [Free] When using the attack action or the full attack action in melee, before making attack rolls for a round, you may choose to accept a penalty on all attacks from the round in order to gain a bonus to your AC. For every -2 penalty you accept, you gain a +1 dodge bonus to your AC. (For example, by accepting a -6 penalty, you would gain a +1 dodge bonus to your AC.) The total penalty cannot exceed your base attack bonus, although characters with low base attack bonuses (less than +4) can still accept a -4 penalty to their attack rolls for a +1 dodge bonus to their AC. The penalty to attacks and bonus to AC apply until your next turn. Total Defense: When using the attack action or the full attack action in melee, you can sacrifice all of your attacks and dedicate yourself to a total defense. You gain a +2 dodge bonus to your AC for each melee attack that you would normally make. (For example, if you could normally make three attacks using the full attack action, then you could gain a +6 dodge bonus to AC for using total defense as a full action.) This bonus is in addition to the normal bonus you would receive for fighting defensively or using Combat Expertise at your maximum penalty. (You should remove the cap on Combat Expertise, although the penalty should not be allowed to exceed your BAB. This makes it look more like Power Attack.) Parry If a character is armed with a melee weapon, they can sacrifice an attack of opportunity as an immediate action to gain a dodge bonus against a single attack. The character gains a +1 dodge bonus for each iterative attack they could normally make with a full attack action. The character must be able to apply your Dexterity bonus to AC against the attack (so a character can't use a parry while flat-footed, for example). If a character can take more than one attack of opportunity, they may still only make a single parry against any given attack. Out-of-Turn Dodge [Immediate] (adapted from Unearthed Arcana) Any time a character is about to be attacked, they can give up their next turn to gain a +4 dodge bonus to their AC. A character must be able to apply their Dexterity bonus to AC against the attack (so a character can’t use an out-of-turn dodge while flat-footed, for example) and the out-of-turn dodge is declared before the attack roll is made. The character’s initiative does not change, they simply do not take an action on their next turn. The character gains this dodge bonus until the next time their initiative comes up after their “skipped” turn. Some feat ideas (unlike the above, these have not been playtested): [i]Improved Parrying (feat): This feat allows you to expend an attack of opportunity to gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC vs. one attack. If you can take multiple attacks of opportunity, you can expend multiple attacks vs. a single attack (thus, expending two AoOs, could give you a +4 bonus against one attack). Parrying Mastery (feat): Set Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Improved Parrying, and Weapon Specialization as pre-reqs. When using a weapon you've specialized in, you can expend an attack of opportunity to double the dodge bonuses to AC from your Combat Expertise and Improved Parrying vs. one attack. (You can only use Parrying Mastery once against each attack, but you can still expend multiple AoOs using Improved Parrying and double the bonus from each.) Supernatural Parry (feat): Set Combat Expertise and Improved Parrying as pre-reqs. This feat allows you to expend an attack of opportunity to literally parry magical attacks, granting you a +2 bonus to your Reflex save vs. one spell. Improved Supernatural Parry (feat): The bonus to Reflex saves is increased to +4. Two-Weapon Defense Expertise (feat): Set Combat Expertise and Two-Weapon Defense as pre-reqs. When using Combat Expertise and wielding two weapons, you gain a shield bonus to AC equal to half the dodge bonus granted by Combat Expertise. This replaces the shield bonus granted by Two-Weapon Defense. Justin Alexander http://www.thealexandrian.net
Valk 03-28-07, 07:19 AM	Parry does not improve the D&D experience. Opposed rolls suck and I do not think melee attacks need to be further weakened. If parry is worth it it will mean that in total less melee attacks will hit and that is not good. I have seen parry rules integrated in other games, in these games magic is much weaker or rarer. In these games the prime method of dispensing of opponents are melee attacks or sometimes physical attacks in general. But with D&D being much more magic-dominant the opportunity to make a melee attack in the first place or even a drool full attack is special or exciting enough. You do not need the special moment where your attack is not parried.
RealSorceror 03-28-07, 11:19 AM	I've played a d20 game based on the Game of Thrones book series. In that system, you roll your AC for each round. Basically, you do not add the base AC of 10 to your Armor Class. Instead, you roll a d20 and add your Dex, sheild, and armor bonus, etc to the roll, and that is your AC for the round. This method slows down melee combat a great deal, which is terrible if you have more than a few players, or a long encounter. I ended up only using that system during 1 on 1 fights, just to dramatize the fight and to make less important encounters move faster.
DrakePD 03-28-07, 05:03 PM	Lots of good information and advice here. Thanks guys. We are still considering adding some sort of parry, but I think what we are going to try first is use a little more flavor and description in our combat scenes before we try and modify or add to the core rules. Basically we need to Role play more and Roll play less. :rolleyes: Again, Thanks guys for your input, we will look these over and see if anything fits our game style.
JustinA 03-28-07, 11:44 PM	I've played a d20 game based on the Game of Thrones book series. In that system, you roll your AC for each round. Basically, you do not add the base AC of 10 to your Armor Class. Instead, you roll a d20 and add your Dex, sheild, and armor bonus, etc to the roll, and that is your AC for the round. This method slows down melee combat a great deal, which is terrible if you have more than a few players, or a long encounter. I ended up only using that system during 1 on 1 fights, just to dramatize the fight and to make less important encounters move faster. A nice variant on this is to make it so that the players roll all the dice during combat. The players are making an attack? Then they roll the dice, add their attack roll, and compare their result to AC (which is 10 + the monster's AC bonuses). The players are being attacked? Then they roll the dice, add their armor bonuses, and compare their result to the monster's Attack Value (which is 10 + their attack bonuses). This is no slower than normal play (because the same number of dice are being rolled), but it means that the players are always actively engaged with both their characters' offense and defense. You can do the same thing with saving throws vs. the player's spells: The player's roll 1d20 + spell level + ability modifier and compare it to the monster's save (10 + saving throw bonus). Justin Alexander http://www.thealexandrian.net
bobothechimp 04-02-07, 07:36 AM	Fighting defensively, combat expertise, total defense, two-weapon defense, and that one feat that lets you improve AC while wielding only a one-handed weapon one-handed all work for this.