Parry [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Parry [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SwiftFox
09-17-05, 02:09 AM This is my attempt at designing a method for characters to 'parry' attack rolls as opposed to merely letting their dodge/armor do the trick. I designed this rule and the associated feats with the intention of bringing more realism to horror and swashbuckling campaigns... Take a look and let me know what you think.

The parry is a variation of the ‘defence roll’ optional rule given in the DMG.
A combatant (henceforth referred to as the defender) must declare he will parry before his opponent makes his attack roll. When that opponent makes his attack/s, instead of attempting to equal or exceed the defenders AC, he must equal or exceed the result of an opposed attack roll (parry). The defender may attempt to parry any number of attacks per round, however each additional parry after the first incurs a cumulative –5 penalty.
Only melee attacks can be parried, and a non-reach melee weapon or shield must be nominated to parry with. The defender incurs a penalty to parry attempts equal to –4 per size category his weapon or shield is smaller than his opponent’s weapon.
The defender gains a bonus to parry attempts equal to 20 – the threat range of the weapon used to parry, or the AC bonus of the shield used to parry. A shield used to make a shield bash only grants a bonus to parry if the defender has the improved shield bash feat.
A defender who is fighting defensively, using a full defence action, using combat expertise or the two weapon defence feat adds the AC bonus gained to parry attempts.
A defender denied his dexterity bonus to AC cannot parry.

Feats : several feats affect the way a parry functions :

Riposte

Prerequisite : Combat Expertise.
Benefit : on a successful parry, the defender may retaliate immediately against his opponent with a melee attack from the weapon or shield used to parry.
Normal : a successful parry deflects a single melee attack.
Special : can be taken as a bonus fighter feat.

Improved Parry

Prerequisite : Combat Reflexes.
Benefit : the defender incurs a cumulative –5 attack penalty only for additional parries against the same opponent.
Normal : each additional parry after the first incurs a cumulative –5 attack penalty.
Special : can be taken as a bonus fighter feat, or can be taken as a bonus monk feat.

Parry Focus

Prerequisite : Base Attack Bonus +1.
Benefit : a defender gains a +2 bonus to all parry attempts.
Special : can be taken as a bonus fighter feat.

Deflect Thrown Weapons

Prerequisite : Combat Expertise.
Benefit : attacks from thrown weapons can be parried.
Normal : only melee attacks can be parried.
Special : can be taken as a bonus fighter feat, or can be taken as a bonus monk feat.

Deflect Projectiles

Prerequisite : Deflect Thrown Weapons.
Benefit : ranged attacks made from projectile weapons can be parried.
Normal : only melee attacks can be parried.
Special : can be taken as a bonus fighter feat.

Dual Defence

Prerequisite : Two Weapon Fighting.
Benefit : the defender may attempt two parries per attack by using more than one held weapon or shield and incurring the appropriate penalties for two weapon fighting. This counts as only a single parry attempt for the purpose of incurring penalties for additional parries per round.
Normal : only one parry may be attempted per attack.
Special : can be taken as a bonus fighter feat.

Greater Parry

Prerequisite : Base Attack Bonus +6, Improved Parry.
Benefit : the defender may take 10 for his parry roll, though he must declare he is doing so before his opponent makes his attack roll.
Normal : a parry is rolled as an opposed attack roll.
Special : can be taken as a bonus fighter feat.
Crash01234567890
09-17-05, 02:45 AM Looks alright the way you've got it to me, but it's 2:00 in the morning so I'm not sure I'm all here.

I tried some parry rules one time but mine were real simple. You could choose to give up an AoO to parry an attack. The attack was automatically parried, but the damage was dealt directly to your weapon. Meaning against kobolds it was great, but against trolls and giants it got really expensive.

Characters with shields can use their shield instead. I ended up with a party of Sword and boarders that refuesed to enchant their shields. In all it was really realistic and quite fun, because the enemies could parry also.

Edit: Note the character has to declare that he is parrying before he knows the enemies results to hit. So a critical hit does double damage to the weapon.
weasel fierce
09-17-05, 09:43 PM Seems pretty straightforward to use, and should have been there all along.
pwatson1974
09-18-05, 03:29 AM You could alo check out Dragon #301. It has variant Parrying rules, including feats. Might be a good compliment to your ideas.
FlameLover
09-18-05, 07:39 AM I'd just make it a modified sort of AoO. You'd at the end of your turn designate you were parrying. If you do you foreit the ability to make an traditional AoOs but instead if you are attacked get an AoO against the attacker (with the normal limit of 1 per round or more if you have that feat).

Wait that's not very good... OK what about the ability to replace your AC with an attack roll. Say d20+BAB? I'd force the character to forgo all AoOs for the round, make it take a standard action, or some other thing. Although it wouldn't be getting to a better AC much unless you're a swashbuckler or something.

But yeah you're system is better but i'll just use mine with your -5 for each additional thing. Maybe only make it a -2 though? I mean at say level 1 you'd be getting 2-21 if you'r a fighter on your AC (Not great) so lessening the penalty might be good... But if you lessened the penalty i'd make each parry count as a AoO.
Arcade
09-18-05, 11:17 AM One thing I thought I'd add. I was going through my old Hero system rulebook for someother ideas, and came across their block ability. It made it so you take a cumulative -2 on every attack coming your way, but you if you ever miss a block, you can't block again until your next action. And by doing a block, you give up one of your next actions.

Translating this to D&D, maybe you could say anyone can use a move equivalent action to use parries. Using the Hero system as a reference, you are allowed to borrow from your next turn to block, unless you are surprised, stunned etc. You take a cumulative -5 penalty on every attack you try to block and you cannot block once you fail a block.

Also, I would also be tempted to change combat expertise to change from giving an AC bonus to sacrificing BAB to add on to your parrying rolls instead.

Just some options.
Mind Rogue
09-18-05, 11:57 AM You're aware that parrying is already in the game? They call it Total Defense... and Fighting Defensively... and the Combat Expertise feat.
Candide
09-18-05, 01:51 PM Dragon Magazine had a Swashbuckling campaign article awhile back. It gave feats for parrying. It was basicly opposed attack rolls but you had to ready an action to parry an attack. Other feats allowed parrying with other kinds of weapons(and parrying additional times per round).
NinjaE
09-18-05, 03:49 PM Guardians of order(guardiansorder.com) have some pretty nice rules for it you might want to look at in BESM D20. Probably won't work without any changes, but you shoudl take a look at the SRD anyway.
FlameLover
09-18-05, 06:39 PM I like the idea of it taking a move action to designate you will parry. You could have two swordsmen then sparring with them taking little 5-foot steps each turn, trying to attack every 6 seconds and then attempting to parry eachother's blows.

Either that or readying an action like a Wizard to dispell. I prefer the move action though.

Oh and along with Fighting Defensivley there should also be a Fighting Offensivley or Preciscley (-4 AC, +2 attack) and a Fighting Recklessley (-4 attack, +2 damage). Then each would also have an improved version! (Like Power Attack but have one for the other two).

But yeah i like the idea of parrying although you need to factor in weapon size and all that. Maybe it should be -4 on the attack roll for every size smaller your weapon is to theirs or +4 for every size bigger?
SwiftFox
09-19-05, 12:51 AM you should check out dragon #301Okay, Ill have a look for it.
It should be a modified AOO/readied actionI already considered this, and wrote a rule for parry where it was a readied action and each parry you made took up one use of an aoo per round, so you could only parry once unless you had combat reflexes... unfortunately, as a readied action is a standard action, this would mean giving up you attack that round in order to maybe parry... and if no-one attacked you that round, you would feel pretty silly. Of course, there was a feat that let you ready a parry as a move-equivilant action, but that feat had another feat (combat expertise) as a prerequisite, and simmilar to two-weapon fighting or any special combat action that provokes an aoo unless you have the feat for it; people just wouldnt parry unless they'de invested a whole stack of feats, and parrying became a progressively bad option as your BaB increased with levels.
I scrapped that system and wrote this one, which I think will actually get used by my players in the campaign im running it in.
why -5 for each additional parry? why not -2?this is so a parrying character doesnt have an urealistic advantage against an attacker with multiple attacks from high BaB... I may have to take dual-defence into account though and modify it to lessen this penalty to -2 if you alternate weapons when parrying multiple attacks.
there is already parrying in the game. combat expertise/total defence = parryYeah, I undestand this, I just wanted a system that was a bit more involving than that... but if i ever wanted to incorporate 'parry' into a game without getting to complex I suppose I could just design a feat such as 'riposte' that allows you to aoo against any opponent that misses you when you are using combat expertise/total defence... actually I think there may already be a feat like that in one of the complete books...
you should factor in weapon sizeI already have. I made it so that parrying a bigger weapon with a smaller one was much harder, ie to parry a greatsword with a longsword was -4, to parry a greatsword with a dagger was -8! however I did not apply the inverse, ie. parrying with a bigger weapon is easier, because it isnt... using a bigger weapon hardly gives you an advantage trying to parry... imagine trying to parry a rapier with a greataxe, lol...

Thanks everyone for your opinions, keep 'em coming...
FlameLover
09-19-05, 07:28 AM Yeah making it -5 makes sense, sorry i wasn't thinking that much before posting. And i still think that parrying with a larger weapon is easier. I mean you're not really "parrying" but just knocking it out of the way really. But it could be munchkinized so maybe leave it only doing penalties (maybe allow a feat to do this though?)

But making parry a move action to setup sounds about right. Only get movement or an attack in your turn but the ability to parry an non-AoO meleee attacks. Maybe make it on a successful parry you can make an AoO against them but at say another -5 penalty? (Either the penalty or taking up another AoO attempt).

But with it taking an AoO plus taking a -5 on each parry or AoO back that makes it usefull sometimes but i think balanced. Improved Parry should lessen the penalty to say -3 though and maybe allow you to parry AoO. I'd make the prereqs. 4 BAB and Combat Reflexes too.

So yeah like the idea and your implemenetation is good. Once it's all fixed up you should post on Regdar's!
Crash01234567890
09-19-05, 01:10 PM I think larger weapons should get a bonus, but not higher effort ones. Actually I think two-handed weapons should give you a -4 to your roll.
So a large dagger would get +4 for being larger and -4 for being light when parrying a medium lonsword. Always treat medium one-handed as the normal for figuring up modifiers. It would work kind of like grapple modifiers.

As a side note. Whoever said Total defense and Combat Expertise was parrying. It's not. It's dodging. Hence the dodging bonus and the fact that an unarmed person can do it. Do you parry with your fists? Not unless you want to be fistless.
fnord
09-22-05, 10:56 PM I dislike this system for several reasons:
1. It makes AC cease to matter, allowing people to dump AC without fear of consequences (barbarian rage, Shock Trooper from complete warrior, Karmic Strike)
2. With riposte, are giving away free attacks. Free attacks are dangerous. And they aren't even limited by you attacks of oppertunity.
3.
I designed this rule and the associated feats with the intention of bringing more realism to horror and swashbuckling campaigns
Realism is a lost cause in the D20 system, and I'm not just talking about magic. There are so many things that are blatently in violation of reality, in order to make the game balanced and easy to play, it's not even funny.
FlameLover
09-22-05, 11:37 PM I agree on the realism part fnord but parrying ads more than that, it can also be fun. I think it should maybe work as follows.

You get the feat Parry or whatever. Right away you need a feat to do this. With the feat you can forgo your AoO for the round (must specify in turn) but gain the ability to parry blows against you instead. If someone attacks you you can attempt a parry, this requires a AoO 'attempt' already and if you don't have Combat Reflexes you'll only get one in a round anyway. So you roll a BAB check (BAB + d20) and replace that with your AC, for better or worse. If they hit they hit and you wasted an AoO attempt, if they don't hit then you just parried their attack.

Then Improved Parry would allow you to attack them back on a succesful parry, although it eats up ANOTHER AoO attempt to do so. This would be just like a standard AoO in all ways though.

And finally you couldn't parry a AoO so that clears up any of those issues. Now i'm not sure but i think the system above is pretty good. I don't think you could break it really, although a super high Dex character would ofcourse get almost unlimited AoO to use for this but since they forgo any AoO of their own for the round it balances out i think. Oh and have an Epic Parry feat that allows you to still do AoO and Parry. Once you go Epic, the gods are your oysters ;)
Argon_Asimov
09-22-05, 11:51 PM Have you ever fenced? You learn quickly that in order to parry effectively, you have to watch your opponent closely, waiting for thier lunge before moving thier blade away. In effect, you are not able to mount an effective offense and defense at the same time.

Perhaps you should consider a system wherein combatants can "hold" one or more of thier attacks to parry later during that round. It would work more or less like what you have now, but you would have to make tactical decisions about how many attacks to hold in this manner.

Also, the size of the weapon matters not at all, and along those same lines, the user's strength is hardly a factor. In fencing, you attempt to use the thick, strong part of the blade closest to you (the forte') to parry the thin, flexible, tip of the opponents blade (the foible). This, combined with the fact that you have only to move slightly to affect a force on the opponent's blade, confers a significant advantage to the defender.

Obviously, fecning foils are exaggerated version of real weapons, but the general principals hold true. If you can use a superior mechanical advantage (usually having to do with the length of moment arms from the force exerted to the line of action), you can deflect powerful incoming blows harmlessly. I would not give a bonus to large weapons, but I would include a penalty for light weapons (to short to give you the time to parry) and to weapons without a blade (more difficult to explain, but if you don't have a long surface to work with, its very difficult to parry).
weasel fierce
09-23-05, 01:18 AM I dislike this system for several reasons:
1. It makes AC cease to matter, allowing people to dump AC without fear of consequences (barbarian rage, Shock Trooper from complete warrior, Karmic Strike)

You are still rolling to hit, so obviously AC matters. However, you'd be better served to use the AC - damage reduction system, along with parrying.

Realism is a lost cause in the D20 system, and I'm not just talking about magic. There are so many things that are blatently in violation of reality, in order to make the game balanced and easy to play, it's not even funny.

How many of those things are actually nescesary ?
Eaglos
09-23-05, 03:13 AM Parry and Riposte :rolleyes: man, don't mix World of Warcraft with DnD :D
What's next Cold Blood and Kidney Shot? ;)

Anyway, nice system but it could prolong combat a bit. Also I would like to remark that rules like that are already covered in older editions so there is nothing "new" in them :P

GOod luck with it!
Nivek Loneshadow
09-23-05, 01:36 PM If you'd like to see more ideas on Parry the Unfettered class in Arcana Evolved has it as a class feature. AE also has rules attached to the weapons that can increase your chances.
shadevarr
10-07-05, 12:30 PM Myself, if I wanted opposed parry rolls in my combat I would go back to playing Palladium fantasy or rifts. Greatly detailed combat system, about as realistic as it can get in a tabletop setting. It does lack the oh so loved balance that most 3rd ed gamers keep ranting about.

In regards to the parrying with a weapon deals damage to the weapon, that is more of a weapon block than a parry anyways and a staff would be destroyed by a couple dagger hits, hmm....no thanks.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SwiftFox 09-17-05, 02:09 AM	This is my attempt at designing a method for characters to 'parry' attack rolls as opposed to merely letting their dodge/armor do the trick. I designed this rule and the associated feats with the intention of bringing more realism to horror and swashbuckling campaigns... Take a look and let me know what you think. The parry is a variation of the ‘defence roll’ optional rule given in the DMG. A combatant (henceforth referred to as the defender) must declare he will parry before his opponent makes his attack roll. When that opponent makes his attack/s, instead of attempting to equal or exceed the defenders AC, he must equal or exceed the result of an opposed attack roll (parry). The defender may attempt to parry any number of attacks per round, however each additional parry after the first incurs a cumulative –5 penalty. Only melee attacks can be parried, and a non-reach melee weapon or shield must be nominated to parry with. The defender incurs a penalty to parry attempts equal to –4 per size category his weapon or shield is smaller than his opponent’s weapon. The defender gains a bonus to parry attempts equal to 20 – the threat range of the weapon used to parry, or the AC bonus of the shield used to parry. A shield used to make a shield bash only grants a bonus to parry if the defender has the improved shield bash feat. A defender who is fighting defensively, using a full defence action, using combat expertise or the two weapon defence feat adds the AC bonus gained to parry attempts. A defender denied his dexterity bonus to AC cannot parry. Feats : several feats affect the way a parry functions : Riposte Prerequisite : Combat Expertise. Benefit : on a successful parry, the defender may retaliate immediately against his opponent with a melee attack from the weapon or shield used to parry. Normal : a successful parry deflects a single melee attack. Special : can be taken as a bonus fighter feat. Improved Parry Prerequisite : Combat Reflexes. Benefit : the defender incurs a cumulative –5 attack penalty only for additional parries against the same opponent. Normal : each additional parry after the first incurs a cumulative –5 attack penalty. Special : can be taken as a bonus fighter feat, or can be taken as a bonus monk feat. Parry Focus Prerequisite : Base Attack Bonus +1. Benefit : a defender gains a +2 bonus to all parry attempts. Special : can be taken as a bonus fighter feat. Deflect Thrown Weapons Prerequisite : Combat Expertise. Benefit : attacks from thrown weapons can be parried. Normal : only melee attacks can be parried. Special : can be taken as a bonus fighter feat, or can be taken as a bonus monk feat. Deflect Projectiles Prerequisite : Deflect Thrown Weapons. Benefit : ranged attacks made from projectile weapons can be parried. Normal : only melee attacks can be parried. Special : can be taken as a bonus fighter feat. Dual Defence Prerequisite : Two Weapon Fighting. Benefit : the defender may attempt two parries per attack by using more than one held weapon or shield and incurring the appropriate penalties for two weapon fighting. This counts as only a single parry attempt for the purpose of incurring penalties for additional parries per round. Normal : only one parry may be attempted per attack. Special : can be taken as a bonus fighter feat. Greater Parry Prerequisite : Base Attack Bonus +6, Improved Parry. Benefit : the defender may take 10 for his parry roll, though he must declare he is doing so before his opponent makes his attack roll. Normal : a parry is rolled as an opposed attack roll. Special : can be taken as a bonus fighter feat.
Crash01234567890 09-17-05, 02:45 AM	Looks alright the way you've got it to me, but it's 2:00 in the morning so I'm not sure I'm all here. I tried some parry rules one time but mine were real simple. You could choose to give up an AoO to parry an attack. The attack was automatically parried, but the damage was dealt directly to your weapon. Meaning against kobolds it was great, but against trolls and giants it got really expensive. Characters with shields can use their shield instead. I ended up with a party of Sword and boarders that refuesed to enchant their shields. In all it was really realistic and quite fun, because the enemies could parry also. Edit: Note the character has to declare that he is parrying before he knows the enemies results to hit. So a critical hit does double damage to the weapon.
weasel fierce 09-17-05, 09:43 PM	Seems pretty straightforward to use, and should have been there all along.
pwatson1974 09-18-05, 03:29 AM	You could alo check out Dragon #301. It has variant Parrying rules, including feats. Might be a good compliment to your ideas.
FlameLover 09-18-05, 07:39 AM	I'd just make it a modified sort of AoO. You'd at the end of your turn designate you were parrying. If you do you foreit the ability to make an traditional AoOs but instead if you are attacked get an AoO against the attacker (with the normal limit of 1 per round or more if you have that feat). Wait that's not very good... OK what about the ability to replace your AC with an attack roll. Say d20+BAB? I'd force the character to forgo all AoOs for the round, make it take a standard action, or some other thing. Although it wouldn't be getting to a better AC much unless you're a swashbuckler or something. But yeah you're system is better but i'll just use mine with your -5 for each additional thing. Maybe only make it a -2 though? I mean at say level 1 you'd be getting 2-21 if you'r a fighter on your AC (Not great) so lessening the penalty might be good... But if you lessened the penalty i'd make each parry count as a AoO.
Arcade 09-18-05, 11:17 AM	One thing I thought I'd add. I was going through my old Hero system rulebook for someother ideas, and came across their block ability. It made it so you take a cumulative -2 on every attack coming your way, but you if you ever miss a block, you can't block again until your next action. And by doing a block, you give up one of your next actions. Translating this to D&D, maybe you could say anyone can use a move equivalent action to use parries. Using the Hero system as a reference, you are allowed to borrow from your next turn to block, unless you are surprised, stunned etc. You take a cumulative -5 penalty on every attack you try to block and you cannot block once you fail a block. Also, I would also be tempted to change combat expertise to change from giving an AC bonus to sacrificing BAB to add on to your parrying rolls instead. Just some options.
Mind Rogue 09-18-05, 11:57 AM	You're aware that parrying is already in the game? They call it Total Defense... and Fighting Defensively... and the Combat Expertise feat.
Candide 09-18-05, 01:51 PM	Dragon Magazine had a Swashbuckling campaign article awhile back. It gave feats for parrying. It was basicly opposed attack rolls but you had to ready an action to parry an attack. Other feats allowed parrying with other kinds of weapons(and parrying additional times per round).
NinjaE 09-18-05, 03:49 PM	Guardians of order(guardiansorder.com) have some pretty nice rules for it you might want to look at in BESM D20. Probably won't work without any changes, but you shoudl take a look at the SRD anyway.
FlameLover 09-18-05, 06:39 PM	I like the idea of it taking a move action to designate you will parry. You could have two swordsmen then sparring with them taking little 5-foot steps each turn, trying to attack every 6 seconds and then attempting to parry eachother's blows. Either that or readying an action like a Wizard to dispell. I prefer the move action though. Oh and along with Fighting Defensivley there should also be a Fighting Offensivley or Preciscley (-4 AC, +2 attack) and a Fighting Recklessley (-4 attack, +2 damage). Then each would also have an improved version! (Like Power Attack but have one for the other two). But yeah i like the idea of parrying although you need to factor in weapon size and all that. Maybe it should be -4 on the attack roll for every size smaller your weapon is to theirs or +4 for every size bigger?
SwiftFox 09-19-05, 12:51 AM	you should check out dragon #301Okay, Ill have a look for it. It should be a modified AOO/readied actionI already considered this, and wrote a rule for parry where it was a readied action and each parry you made took up one use of an aoo per round, so you could only parry once unless you had combat reflexes... unfortunately, as a readied action is a standard action, this would mean giving up you attack that round in order to maybe parry... and if no-one attacked you that round, you would feel pretty silly. Of course, there was a feat that let you ready a parry as a move-equivilant action, but that feat had another feat (combat expertise) as a prerequisite, and simmilar to two-weapon fighting or any special combat action that provokes an aoo unless you have the feat for it; people just wouldnt parry unless they'de invested a whole stack of feats, and parrying became a progressively bad option as your BaB increased with levels. I scrapped that system and wrote this one, which I think will actually get used by my players in the campaign im running it in. why -5 for each additional parry? why not -2?this is so a parrying character doesnt have an urealistic advantage against an attacker with multiple attacks from high BaB... I may have to take dual-defence into account though and modify it to lessen this penalty to -2 if you alternate weapons when parrying multiple attacks. there is already parrying in the game. combat expertise/total defence = parryYeah, I undestand this, I just wanted a system that was a bit more involving than that... but if i ever wanted to incorporate 'parry' into a game without getting to complex I suppose I could just design a feat such as 'riposte' that allows you to aoo against any opponent that misses you when you are using combat expertise/total defence... actually I think there may already be a feat like that in one of the complete books... you should factor in weapon sizeI already have. I made it so that parrying a bigger weapon with a smaller one was much harder, ie to parry a greatsword with a longsword was -4, to parry a greatsword with a dagger was -8! however I did not apply the inverse, ie. parrying with a bigger weapon is easier, because it isnt... using a bigger weapon hardly gives you an advantage trying to parry... imagine trying to parry a rapier with a greataxe, lol... Thanks everyone for your opinions, keep 'em coming...
FlameLover 09-19-05, 07:28 AM	Yeah making it -5 makes sense, sorry i wasn't thinking that much before posting. And i still think that parrying with a larger weapon is easier. I mean you're not really "parrying" but just knocking it out of the way really. But it could be munchkinized so maybe leave it only doing penalties (maybe allow a feat to do this though?) But making parry a move action to setup sounds about right. Only get movement or an attack in your turn but the ability to parry an non-AoO meleee attacks. Maybe make it on a successful parry you can make an AoO against them but at say another -5 penalty? (Either the penalty or taking up another AoO attempt). But with it taking an AoO plus taking a -5 on each parry or AoO back that makes it usefull sometimes but i think balanced. Improved Parry should lessen the penalty to say -3 though and maybe allow you to parry AoO. I'd make the prereqs. 4 BAB and Combat Reflexes too. So yeah like the idea and your implemenetation is good. Once it's all fixed up you should post on Regdar's!
Crash01234567890 09-19-05, 01:10 PM	I think larger weapons should get a bonus, but not higher effort ones. Actually I think two-handed weapons should give you a -4 to your roll. So a large dagger would get +4 for being larger and -4 for being light when parrying a medium lonsword. Always treat medium one-handed as the normal for figuring up modifiers. It would work kind of like grapple modifiers. As a side note. Whoever said Total defense and Combat Expertise was parrying. It's not. It's dodging. Hence the dodging bonus and the fact that an unarmed person can do it. Do you parry with your fists? Not unless you want to be fistless.
fnord 09-22-05, 10:56 PM	I dislike this system for several reasons: 1. It makes AC cease to matter, allowing people to dump AC without fear of consequences (barbarian rage, Shock Trooper from complete warrior, Karmic Strike) 2. With riposte, are giving away free attacks. Free attacks are dangerous. And they aren't even limited by you attacks of oppertunity. 3. I designed this rule and the associated feats with the intention of bringing more realism to horror and swashbuckling campaigns Realism is a lost cause in the D20 system, and I'm not just talking about magic. There are so many things that are blatently in violation of reality, in order to make the game balanced and easy to play, it's not even funny.
FlameLover 09-22-05, 11:37 PM	I agree on the realism part fnord but parrying ads more than that, it can also be fun. I think it should maybe work as follows. You get the feat Parry or whatever. Right away you need a feat to do this. With the feat you can forgo your AoO for the round (must specify in turn) but gain the ability to parry blows against you instead. If someone attacks you you can attempt a parry, this requires a AoO 'attempt' already and if you don't have Combat Reflexes you'll only get one in a round anyway. So you roll a BAB check (BAB + d20) and replace that with your AC, for better or worse. If they hit they hit and you wasted an AoO attempt, if they don't hit then you just parried their attack. Then Improved Parry would allow you to attack them back on a succesful parry, although it eats up ANOTHER AoO attempt to do so. This would be just like a standard AoO in all ways though. And finally you couldn't parry a AoO so that clears up any of those issues. Now i'm not sure but i think the system above is pretty good. I don't think you could break it really, although a super high Dex character would ofcourse get almost unlimited AoO to use for this but since they forgo any AoO of their own for the round it balances out i think. Oh and have an Epic Parry feat that allows you to still do AoO and Parry. Once you go Epic, the gods are your oysters ;)
Argon_Asimov 09-22-05, 11:51 PM	Have you ever fenced? You learn quickly that in order to parry effectively, you have to watch your opponent closely, waiting for thier lunge before moving thier blade away. In effect, you are not able to mount an effective offense and defense at the same time. Perhaps you should consider a system wherein combatants can "hold" one or more of thier attacks to parry later during that round. It would work more or less like what you have now, but you would have to make tactical decisions about how many attacks to hold in this manner. Also, the size of the weapon matters not at all, and along those same lines, the user's strength is hardly a factor. In fencing, you attempt to use the thick, strong part of the blade closest to you (the forte') to parry the thin, flexible, tip of the opponents blade (the foible). This, combined with the fact that you have only to move slightly to affect a force on the opponent's blade, confers a significant advantage to the defender. Obviously, fecning foils are exaggerated version of real weapons, but the general principals hold true. If you can use a superior mechanical advantage (usually having to do with the length of moment arms from the force exerted to the line of action), you can deflect powerful incoming blows harmlessly. I would not give a bonus to large weapons, but I would include a penalty for light weapons (to short to give you the time to parry) and to weapons without a blade (more difficult to explain, but if you don't have a long surface to work with, its very difficult to parry).
weasel fierce 09-23-05, 01:18 AM	I dislike this system for several reasons: 1. It makes AC cease to matter, allowing people to dump AC without fear of consequences (barbarian rage, Shock Trooper from complete warrior, Karmic Strike) You are still rolling to hit, so obviously AC matters. However, you'd be better served to use the AC - damage reduction system, along with parrying. Realism is a lost cause in the D20 system, and I'm not just talking about magic. There are so many things that are blatently in violation of reality, in order to make the game balanced and easy to play, it's not even funny. How many of those things are actually nescesary ?
Eaglos 09-23-05, 03:13 AM	Parry and Riposte :rolleyes: man, don't mix World of Warcraft with DnD :D What's next Cold Blood and Kidney Shot? ;) Anyway, nice system but it could prolong combat a bit. Also I would like to remark that rules like that are already covered in older editions so there is nothing "new" in them :P GOod luck with it!
Nivek Loneshadow 09-23-05, 01:36 PM	If you'd like to see more ideas on Parry the Unfettered class in Arcana Evolved has it as a class feature. AE also has rules attached to the weapons that can increase your chances.
shadevarr 10-07-05, 12:30 PM	Myself, if I wanted opposed parry rolls in my combat I would go back to playing Palladium fantasy or rifts. Greatly detailed combat system, about as realistic as it can get in a tabletop setting. It does lack the oh so loved balance that most 3rd ed gamers keep ranting about. In regards to the parrying with a weapon deals damage to the weapon, that is more of a weapon block than a parry anyways and a staff would be destroyed by a couple dagger hits, hmm....no thanks.