Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Vyvyan Basterd 09-29-06, 10:03 AM	CHAMPION Alignment: Same as chosen deity. Hit Die: d10. Class Skills The champion’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), and Sense Motive (Wis). Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier. BAB: Full Good Save: Fort Bad Saves: Ref and Will Table: The Champion Level Special Spells per Day (0-4th) 1st Aura, domain ability 1/day 1 2nd Divine grace, lay on hands 1 3rd Aura of courage, divine health 1 4th Turn or rebuke undead 1/0 5th Domain ability 2/day 1/0 6th Improved domain ability 1/week 1/1 7th 2/1 8th 2/1/0 9th Improved domain ability 2/week 2/1/0 10th Domain ability 3/day 2/1/1 11th 2/1/1/0 12th Improved domain ability 3/week 2/1/1/1 13th 2/1/1/1 14th 2/2/1/1/0 15th Improved domain ability 4/week, 2/2/1/1/1 domain ability 4/day 16th 2/2/2/1/1 17th 2/2/2/2/1 18th Improved domain ability 5/week 3/3/2/2/1 19th 3/3/3/3/2 20th Domain ability 5/day 3/3/3/3/3 Class Features All of the following are class features of the champion. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Champions are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor (heavy, medium, and light), and with shields (except tower shields). Aura (Ex): A champion of a chaotic, evil, good, or lawful deity has a particularly powerful aura corresponding to the deity’s alignment (see the detect evil spell for details). Domain Ability: A champion chooses a domain from among those belonging to his deity. Each domain gives the cleric access to a domain spell at each spell level he can cast, from 1st on up, as well as a granted power. Any granted power that is listed as usable once per day is instead usable a number of times per day based on the champion’s level. Other granted powers follow the normal rules of use as a cleric. Divine Grace (Su): At 2nd level, a champion gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws. Lay on Hands (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, a champion with a Charisma score of 12 or higher can heal wounds (her own or those of others) by touch. Each day she can heal a total number of hit points of damage equal to her champion level x her Charisma bonus. A champion may choose to divide her healing among multiple recipients, and she doesn’t have to use it all at once. Using lay on hands is a standard action. Alternatively, a champion can use any or all of this healing power to deal damage to undead creatures. Using lay on hands in this way requires a successful melee touch attack and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. The champion decides how many of her daily allotment of points to use as damage after successfully touching an undead creature. Aura of Courage (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, a champion is immune to fear (magical or otherwise). Each ally within 10 feet of her gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear effects. This ability functions while the champion is conscious, but not if she is unconscious or dead. Divine Health (Ex): At 3rd level, a champion gains immunity to all diseases, including supernatural and magical diseases. Turn or Rebuke Undead (Su): When a champion reaches 4th level, she gains the supernatural ability to turn or rebuke undead. She may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier. She turns or rebukes undead as a cleric of three levels lower would. A good champion can turn or destroy undead creatures. An evil champion instead rebukes or commands such creatures. A neutral champion must choose whether his turning ability functions as that of a good champion or an evil champion. Once this choice is made, it cannot be reversed. Spells: A champion gains the ability to cast a small number of divine spells, which are drawn from the cleric, chosen domain, and paladin spell lists (If a spell if on multiple tables the order of reference is domain, paladin, then cleric to determine the spell’s level for the champion). A champion must choose and prepare her spells in advance. To prepare or cast a spell, a champion must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a champion’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the champion’s Wisdom modifier. Like other spellcasters, a champion can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Champion. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Wisdom score. When Table: The Champion indicates that the champion gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, she gains only the bonus spells she would be entitled to based on her Wisdom score for that spell level. A champion prepares and casts spells the way a cleric does, though she cannot lose a prepared spell to spontaneously cast a cure or inflict spell in its place. A champion may prepare and cast any spell on the champion spell list, provided that she can cast spells of that level, but she must choose which spells to prepare during her daily meditation. A champion has an effective cleric caster level equal to one-half her champion level (minimum of 1). This effective cleric level may also affect the usage of some domain granted powers. Improved Domain Ability (Sp): At 6th level, a champion can produce an effect equivalent to the 5th level spell of their chosen domain once per week. She can use this ability one additional time per week for every three levels after 6th (twice per week at 9th, three times at 12th, and so forth). Ex-Champions A champion who ceases to be the alignment of her chosen deity or who willfully commits an act against the tenets of her deity, loses all champion spells and abilities (but not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She may not progress any farther in levels as a champion. She regains her abilities and advancement potential if she atones for her violations (see the atonement spell description), as appropriate.
X-Codes 09-29-06, 05:54 PM	I don't see the reason for this...
Vyvyan Basterd 09-29-06, 09:05 PM	I don't see the reason for this... The reason is that numerous people over the years have asked why there is only a Lawful Good holy warrior as a base class. WoTC has presented CG versions (Holy Liberator) and LE versions (Blackguard) as Prestige Classes. Others have tried to create separate base classes. This was an idea based on creating a single base class to allow for holy warriors of specific deities. Thanks for the examination and in depth critique!
Reversefigure4 09-29-06, 09:58 PM	It certainly favours domain abilities that are usable X/per day. Who's going to be a champion of Knowledge and get the ability to cast divination spells at +1 caster level or Trickery for a few class skills, when they can be a champion of Luck getting 5 dice rerolls a day, or Sun getting 5 great turnings per day?
Rhialto 09-29-06, 11:20 PM	I'm not sure why every champion should get lay on hands. What does that have to do with a god of tricksters, for example? Equally, immunity to disease is one that doesn't necessarily make sense to me, although I like things grittier I guess. They also seem to have lost the horse entirely, which makes sense for a sea god, but not the traditional heroic champion types. btw, you may want to introduce paragraphs into that body of text. It's awful hard to read like that.
X-Codes 09-30-06, 01:36 AM	The reason is that numerous people over the years have asked why there is only a Lawful Good holy warrior as a base class. WoTC has presented CG versions (Holy Liberator) and LE versions (Blackguard) as Prestige Classes. Others have tried to create separate base classes. This was an idea based on creating a single base class to allow for holy warriors of specific deities. Thanks for the examination and in depth critique! You could've just put this in the OP in the first place and not responded to the first guy that asked "whats this for" with a snyde remark, but whatever. Like Reversefigure4 said, it's very weighted towards domains that give single-use per day abilities. The Death Domain is particularly potent, giving multiple uses of Death Touch and Slay Living. You also got rid of Smite which is really one of the most holy-warriorish abilities of them all. You can always take Divine Crusader (Complete Divine) if you want to exemplify an aspect of your deity. The pre-requisites are quite easy, too. If you want Holy Warrior with Smiting, then theres the Pious Templar in the same book (which is what I intend to use for holy warriors IMC).
Vyvyan Basterd 09-30-06, 01:53 AM	It certainly favours domain abilities that are usable X/per day. Who's going to be a champion of Knowledge and get the ability to cast divination spells at +1 caster level or Trickery for a few class skills, when they can be a champion of Luck getting 5 dice rerolls a day, or Sun getting 5 great turnings per day? I guess it depends on whether you want the spells from those domains. But yes, some domains would be favored over others.
Vyvyan Basterd 09-30-06, 02:00 AM	I'm not sure why every champion should get lay on hands. What does that have to do with a god of tricksters, for example? Equally, immunity to disease is one that doesn't necessarily make sense to me, although I like things grittier I guess. They also seem to have lost the horse entirely, which makes sense for a sea god, but not the traditional heroic champion types. btw, you may want to introduce paragraphs into that body of text. It's awful hard to read like that. Healing is useful to keep the fighting champion of any god alive. As is keeping them free of debilitating diseases. I personally don't like the mechanics of the horse anymore. I thought it to be a good trade for expanding their spell list. I wish I could attach this, I'm terrible at formatting this stuff.
Vyvyan Basterd 09-30-06, 02:05 AM	You could've just put this in the OP in the first place and not responded to the first guy that asked "whats this for" with a snyde remark, but whatever. Like Reversefigure4 said, it's very weighted towards domains that give single-use per day abilities. The Death Domain is particularly potent, giving multiple uses of Death Touch and Slay Living. You also got rid of Smite which is really one of the most holy-warriorish abilities of them all. You can always take Divine Crusader (Complete Divine) if you want to exemplify an aspect of your deity. The pre-requisites are quite easy, too. If you want Holy Warrior with Smiting, then theres the Pious Templar in the same book (which is what I intend to use for holy warriors IMC). I apologize. Crabby day. You can still smite if you choose the Destruction Domain. I think the Death Touch is balanced because the dice are based on your Cleric level. I may not have been clear, but the Champion has an effective Cleric level equal to one-half the Champion's level. So they could death touch multiple times, but need to weaken their opponents further than a cleric would. The Slay Living is times per week at points where a cleric could cast it as many times per day (except when the Champion first receives this).
Rhialto 09-30-06, 03:25 AM	Healing is useful to keep the fighting champion of any god alive. As is keeping them free of debilitating diseases. I personally don't like the mechanics of the horse anymore. I thought it to be a good trade for expanding their spell list. I wish I could attach this, I'm terrible at formatting this stuff. Healing is also useful for keeping anyone alive, regardless of deity. I'm wondering why a god of mindless destruction and suicide pacts would have just as much healing ability granted to her templars as a god of healing and salvation. For some deities who don't have priorities in healing and disease control, those abilities don't necessarily make sense, especially in a low magic setting. And a paladin is the archetype of the knight on a white charger, so to make him have no horse at all, even on a varies by deity basis seems to strip him of one of the more fundamental aspects of the class. For comparison, here is my notes on my draft for a paladin (templar) replacement: ---- Special Mount (Sp) (by deity) nb. This section has received a major rewrite. The term 'mount' in this context may refer equally to either a steed or to an animal companion, depending on the deity. Upon reaching 5th level, a templar gains the service of an unusually intelligent, strong, and loyal steed to serve her in his crusade against his enemies. This mount is usually a heavy warhorse (for a Medium templar) or a warpony (for a Small templar). Once per day, as a full-round action, a templar may magically call his mount. This ability is the equivalent of a spell of a level equal to one-third the templar's level. The mount will appear in the nearest unobserved area. For example, a stable where no stablehands are currently at work, among a wild herd, alone in an empty copse of trees. From there, the mount will walk or run (depending on urgency) to the templar if possible, or the templar may go and meet the mount. The mount remains until dismissed, at which time it will wander off to a nearby unobserved location. Each time the mount is called, it appears as healthy as it was before, except taht time may have healed any wounds it may have suffered; the animal does not magically heal wounds without special attention. The mount also appears wearing or carrying any gear it had when it was last dismissed. Calling a mount is a conjuration (calling) (???) effect. Should the templar's mount die, the templar may not summon another mount for thirty days or until she gains a templar level, whichever comes first. The animal may not be raised from the dead, as the deity has given it final rest as a reward for its service. During this thirty-day period, the templar takes a -1 penalty on attack and weapon damage rolls. ---- Note in those paragraphs is the idea that the exact animal will vary by deity, and some deities won't grant any animal at all (but compensates in other areas). Animals may either be steeds, companions (large animals), or familiar-sized creatures (need to draft rules for this last group). This is all tied to my idea that a holy warrior for any given deity will be very different. The different kits for each deity should make each templar radically different.
Wayside 09-30-06, 03:40 AM	Healing is also useful for keeping anyone alive, regardless of deity. I'm wondering why a god of mindless destruction and suicide pacts would have just as much healing ability granted to her templars as a god of healing and salvation. They wouldn't, they would have a 5th level healing domain spell usable multiple times per week. The lay on hands healing is just the basic healing all champions recieve. However for flavor of this aspect you could make lay on hands function as healing only for the champion and against others as damage if the champion is evil. On a balance note it seems to me that a 5th level spell at 6th level is overpowered.
Vyvyan Basterd 09-30-06, 12:33 PM	They wouldn't, they would have a 5th level healing domain spell usable multiple times per week. The lay on hands healing is just the basic healing all champions recieve. However for flavor of this aspect you could make lay on hands function as healing only for the champion and against others as damage if the champion is evil. On a balance note it seems to me that a 5th level spell at 6th level is overpowered. That is a concern. But I was wondering if the factors involved mitigate the power. First, its once per week at 6th level. Second, if there is a save, the Champion is unlikely to have a very high DC at 6th level (15 + Wis, probably a 17 at best) [Compared to a full caster with 13 + stat + possibly feat(s) with their max spell level would likely have at least a 17 on average]. Third (and I'm not sure if its clear in the write-up), the improved domain ability would function at the Champion's caster level. So, even though it is a 5th level spell, its effects (at 6th level) would be based on a 3rd-level caster. I'm not sure that this is enough to balance it though. @ Rhialto - I did state that I personally don't like the current special mount ability and I really don't like the stereotypical white knight on a charger. I see paladins in a different light when I play them. My solution to the special mount issue would be for the Champion to take the Leadership feat to gain a mount cohort. Leadership isn't a bad feat for a charismatic warrior anyway. I know this gives it to him later than the Paladin, but I think other abilities have compensated for this. Until sixth level the champion could just buy a normal mount.
Vyvyan Basterd 09-30-06, 12:52 PM	Healing is also useful for keeping anyone alive, regardless of deity. I'm wondering why a god of mindless destruction and suicide pacts would have just as much healing ability granted to her templars as a god of healing and salvation. I understand your point. I did contemplate at first making it a channeling issue based on alignment and I think that would still be a valid choice for this class. I left it as is for now. The immune to disease issue was more difficult. I didn't want to remove this ability because of balance. And I couldn't think of a way to customize this ability easily like I did with the Improved Domain Ability class feature. I think I would have to come up with a list specific by domain, like: Air/Earth/Fire/Sun/Water - electricity/acid/fire/fire/cold resistance 10 Animal & Plant - poison immunity Chaos/Evil/Good/Law - DR 3/lawful/good/evil/chaotic Death - +4 on saves vs. death effects Destruction & Healing - immunity to disease Knowledge & Trickery - +4 on saves vs. mind-affecting effects Luck & Protection - +1 on all saves Magic - SR 10 + champion level Strength & War - +1 enhancement bonus to natural armor Travel - +4 on saves vs. paralysis effects
Rhialto 09-30-06, 05:42 PM	To use a less extreme example, the god of mindles destruiction and suicide pacts gets as much healing potential as the god of basket weaving under the class as originally written. I'd re-write the lay on hands to one of: a) heal mode only b) smite mode only c) nothing, but choose an extra miscellaneous ability Personally, I'd also make the heal mode take a minimum of 10 minutes of prayer. As a one round action, it acts as something to be used in the heat of combat. But that's mabe just my preference for a low magic setting at work. That shortlist of domain-specific resistances definitely seems like the way to go instead of having disease immunity across the board. If option C is chosen for any deity for the lay on hands ability, perhaps choose an extra resistance appropriate to the deity.
Vyvyan Basterd 09-30-06, 05:49 PM	Personally, I'd also make the heal mode take a minimum of 10 minutes of prayer. As a one round action, it acts as something to be used in the heat of combat. But that's mabe just my preference for a low magic setting at work. Ah, yes. I definately did not write this up with a low magic game in mind. I think that would be a seperate discussion and would be in reference to all classes in light of the low-magic game, not just the Champion class. I run a game along core magic levels, so this class is meant to fall in balance with core classes.