Per encounter Magic. Slots? Points? NOPE! <Rough Draft> [Archive] - Wizards Community

Per encounter Magic. Slots? Points? NOPE! <Rough Draft> [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
EvilVegan
07-06-07, 03:46 PM Rough Draft:

The magic system currently is great, albeit antiquated. Psionics was a good attempt at fixing this system and making it more logical but still had the problem of "nova-napping" (that is expending all your power-points in one fight and then resting). Nova-napping itself is mainly a problem of the CR/EL per day guidelines because the PCs (not being robots, typically) may choose not to encounter the set number of creatures between rest cycles. This causes the "per-day" balanced caster classes to be over powered because they can use up all of their resources in 1 fight instead of saving them for the assumed 4. Hence the theoretical need for a per-encounter balanced caster class.

Here are some ideas I have:

Base a magic system off of Tome of Battle, having a limited number of maneuvers that they can perform once per encounter. (This has an added benefit of being very easy to convert most spells)
Base magic off of feats, similar to Star Wars Saga Edition Force Powers.
Base Magic off of skill checks, each school has effects that can be performed via a skill check (Magical Training [Enchantment], Magical Training [Teleportation], Magical Training [Evocation], etc).
Base magic off of the Warlock class combined with the reserve feat mechanic. You have certain abilities that you can use at will, or channel a large portion of your power for greater effect, which temporarily limits your lesser abilities. For instance, a Relocator (teleportation specialist) can dimension slide at will but dimension door once per encounter at 7th level (maybe higher). This would upgrade to teleport once per day. These would have a drawback such as "can't dimension slide for 1 minute after dimension door, or 10 minutes after teleporting" if not longer. A evoker can deal energy damage in a cone at will (5d4 max) or can create a ball of energy at 9th (10d6 max) which means they can't create their base cone for 1 minute. Etc.

Certain spells would have to be limited. My fix for cure spells is a limit of number of rounds.

Cure Wounds
Standard action
Touch
You may heal (X) amount of hit point damage. You may only heal wounds created recently within one round per level. The oldest wounds are healed first.
For instance a Gorlock the Brave takes 4 points of damage from a goblin short sword on round 1, 6 from an arrow in the face on round 2, 12 from a great axe on round 3, and 5 more on round 4 from falling. Tiggles the Compassionate (4th level healer) rushes up and cure's his wounds on round 4. The first round he heals 3 HP (bad roll). The next round he heals 3 more (this guy sucks). The one after that he heals 3 more, and then another 3 on round 8. Gorlock hasn't taken any more damage this fight but unfortunately for him he can't benefit from this source of healing any further because Tiggles can only heal wounds made within the past 4 rounds (because he's levle 4).

This heal would heal more than 3 damage typically (at least on par with current clerical ability). And (if using the last variant) would be able to be channeled into a restoration or later on a heal for greater effect but would need to recover afterwords.

There would also be another spell for between fight patch jobs that couldn't be performed while distracted, but works like a channelled vigor spell.
claypigeons
07-07-07, 06:54 AM I'll wait for more to be added before I make any kind of judgement...

But the Cure Wounds ability kind of sucks. Long fights, specifically combats where it would be dangerous to get into the heat of battle for a dedicated healer, would be particularly lethal. And time consuming at a meta-level.

Assuming the healer sucks at rolling, he could heal a total of 4 points of damage. That doesn't save anyone from anything. Even worse is the fact that after a battle, after the healer has used up their healing ability, the melee, rather than the casters, are the ones calling for a break. But instead of a night, it could be up to a week to get back to full HP. That's anything but heroic in a game where magic is EVERYWHERE.

I can see where NPC spell casters would be rich beyond dreams, though. There will be an aweful lot of impatient adventurers. (And an influx of new service providers wouldn't really cut the cost. They have 4 uses. And items would be radically different as well. It not, wands will be used even more often.)
EvilVegan
07-07-07, 09:17 AM the Cure Wounds ability kind of sucks. Long fights, specifically combats where it would be dangerous to get into the heat of battle for a dedicated healer, would be particularly lethal. And time consuming at a meta-level.

Assuming the healer sucks at rolling, he could heal a total of 4 points of damage. That doesn't save anyone from anything. Even worse is the fact that after a battle, after the healer has used up their healing ability, the melee, rather than the casters, are the ones calling for a break. But instead of a night, it could be up to a week to get back to full HP. That's anything but heroic in a game where magic is EVERYWHERE.

I can see where NPC spell casters would be rich beyond dreams, though. There will be an aweful lot of impatient adventurers. (And an influx of new service providers wouldn't really cut the cost. They have 4 uses. And items would be radically different as well. It not, wands will be used even more often.) The cure ability would need to be coupled with an out-of-combat healing ability which would be able to get a group back to full health relatively quickly, say within an hour for 4 people? I'm really thinking something that is a combination between treat injury (from Star Wars Saga Edition) and a channelled vigor effect. Perhaps a % heal over time 1% per round over 10 minutes.

Here are some maneuvers I was thinking of with healing in mind:

Healing Touch Discipline

Staunch (Counter)
Level: Battle Chaplain 1
Action: 1 immediate action
Target: You or an Ally
Range: Close (25 + 5/2 levels)

Whenever you or an ally is hit in combat you may cause their wounds to close immediately after the blow is struck. This reduces the damage taken by that single attack by 50%. You must be able to see your ally and the opponent striking him and you cannot be flat-footed when you use this counter.

Healing Glow (Stance)
Level: Battle Chaplain 3
Prerequisite: One Healing Touch maneuver
Initiation: 1 swift action
Area: 15 foot radius centered on you

You radiate healing energy. While within the area this aura soothes wounds and restores vitality. This heals 1% of total maximum hit points per round up to half of their normal maximum hit point total.

Soothing Touch (Strike)

Your touch brings soothing relief to those who have been injured, allowing them to fight on. You may heal 2d4 + your initiator level with a touch. This may only heal damage taken within the past minute.

Unassuming Defense (Stance)

You can cause others to view you as unimportant and they will ignore you in favor of other opponents.
Anyone seeking to to target you with harmful abilities or attacks must roll a will save (DC 11 + Wis modifier) to do so.
If you target anyone with a harmful ability or attack this stance ends immediately and even if you assume this stance again that opponent no longer needs to roll a will save to target you for the next 24 hours.

This has gotten me interested in writing up a complete discipline and a new class. I'll be posting it soon in the classes section.
Jeweler
07-09-07, 10:06 AM Well put up a link here because I am interested to see what you do with it all. Soothing touch seems like a decent, cast all the time, ability. The next channeling could make it 2D8+initiator level, and then the 3rd ability for it could be like 4D8+initiator level. Or something like that.

The advantage of using that technique for an always cast ability is that its relatively low in power, but it can still heal enough, until higher levels, that its useful. *IE you don't have people whining about book keeping and the fact that you gave an example*
EvilVegan
07-09-07, 10:29 AM Disciplines here:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=13007333#post13007333

Class here:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=881389
fatal error
07-09-07, 08:15 PM You're limiting Curing spells to short-term in-combat use. Makes sense, you don't want to have everyone at instant full health out of combat.

But then you are going to introduce a new mechanic to make people heal faster outside of combat.

Why not just let them use Curing spells out of combat? If you want everyone to be at full health going into a fight, then let them just use their same tools for in combat and out of combat healing.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
EvilVegan 07-06-07, 03:46 PM	Rough Draft: The magic system currently is great, albeit antiquated. Psionics was a good attempt at fixing this system and making it more logical but still had the problem of "nova-napping" (that is expending all your power-points in one fight and then resting). Nova-napping itself is mainly a problem of the CR/EL per day guidelines because the PCs (not being robots, typically) may choose not to encounter the set number of creatures between rest cycles. This causes the "per-day" balanced caster classes to be over powered because they can use up all of their resources in 1 fight instead of saving them for the assumed 4. Hence the theoretical need for a per-encounter balanced caster class. Here are some ideas I have: Base a magic system off of Tome of Battle, having a limited number of maneuvers that they can perform once per encounter. (This has an added benefit of being very easy to convert most spells) Base magic off of feats, similar to Star Wars Saga Edition Force Powers. Base Magic off of skill checks, each school has effects that can be performed via a skill check (Magical Training [Enchantment], Magical Training [Teleportation], Magical Training [Evocation], etc). Base magic off of the Warlock class combined with the reserve feat mechanic. You have certain abilities that you can use at will, or channel a large portion of your power for greater effect, which temporarily limits your lesser abilities. For instance, a Relocator (teleportation specialist) can dimension slide at will but dimension door once per encounter at 7th level (maybe higher). This would upgrade to teleport once per day. These would have a drawback such as "can't dimension slide for 1 minute after dimension door, or 10 minutes after teleporting" if not longer. A evoker can deal energy damage in a cone at will (5d4 max) or can create a ball of energy at 9th (10d6 max) which means they can't create their base cone for 1 minute. Etc. Certain spells would have to be limited. My fix for cure spells is a limit of number of rounds. Cure Wounds Standard action Touch You may heal (X) amount of hit point damage. You may only heal wounds created recently within one round per level. The oldest wounds are healed first. For instance a Gorlock the Brave takes 4 points of damage from a goblin short sword on round 1, 6 from an arrow in the face on round 2, 12 from a great axe on round 3, and 5 more on round 4 from falling. Tiggles the Compassionate (4th level healer) rushes up and cure's his wounds on round 4. The first round he heals 3 HP (bad roll). The next round he heals 3 more (this guy sucks). The one after that he heals 3 more, and then another 3 on round 8. Gorlock hasn't taken any more damage this fight but unfortunately for him he can't benefit from this source of healing any further because Tiggles can only heal wounds made within the past 4 rounds (because he's levle 4). This heal would heal more than 3 damage typically (at least on par with current clerical ability). And (if using the last variant) would be able to be channeled into a restoration or later on a heal for greater effect but would need to recover afterwords. There would also be another spell for between fight patch jobs that couldn't be performed while distracted, but works like a channelled vigor spell.
claypigeons 07-07-07, 06:54 AM	I'll wait for more to be added before I make any kind of judgement... But the Cure Wounds ability kind of sucks. Long fights, specifically combats where it would be dangerous to get into the heat of battle for a dedicated healer, would be particularly lethal. And time consuming at a meta-level. Assuming the healer sucks at rolling, he could heal a total of 4 points of damage. That doesn't save anyone from anything. Even worse is the fact that after a battle, after the healer has used up their healing ability, the melee, rather than the casters, are the ones calling for a break. But instead of a night, it could be up to a week to get back to full HP. That's anything but heroic in a game where magic is EVERYWHERE. I can see where NPC spell casters would be rich beyond dreams, though. There will be an aweful lot of impatient adventurers. (And an influx of new service providers wouldn't really cut the cost. They have 4 uses. And items would be radically different as well. It not, wands will be used even more often.)
EvilVegan 07-07-07, 09:17 AM	the Cure Wounds ability kind of sucks. Long fights, specifically combats where it would be dangerous to get into the heat of battle for a dedicated healer, would be particularly lethal. And time consuming at a meta-level. Assuming the healer sucks at rolling, he could heal a total of 4 points of damage. That doesn't save anyone from anything. Even worse is the fact that after a battle, after the healer has used up their healing ability, the melee, rather than the casters, are the ones calling for a break. But instead of a night, it could be up to a week to get back to full HP. That's anything but heroic in a game where magic is EVERYWHERE. I can see where NPC spell casters would be rich beyond dreams, though. There will be an aweful lot of impatient adventurers. (And an influx of new service providers wouldn't really cut the cost. They have 4 uses. And items would be radically different as well. It not, wands will be used even more often.) The cure ability would need to be coupled with an out-of-combat healing ability which would be able to get a group back to full health relatively quickly, say within an hour for 4 people? I'm really thinking something that is a combination between treat injury (from Star Wars Saga Edition) and a channelled vigor effect. Perhaps a % heal over time 1% per round over 10 minutes. Here are some maneuvers I was thinking of with healing in mind: Healing Touch Discipline Staunch (Counter) Level: Battle Chaplain 1 Action: 1 immediate action Target: You or an Ally Range: Close (25 + 5/2 levels) Whenever you or an ally is hit in combat you may cause their wounds to close immediately after the blow is struck. This reduces the damage taken by that single attack by 50%. You must be able to see your ally and the opponent striking him and you cannot be flat-footed when you use this counter. Healing Glow (Stance) Level: Battle Chaplain 3 Prerequisite: One Healing Touch maneuver Initiation: 1 swift action Area: 15 foot radius centered on you You radiate healing energy. While within the area this aura soothes wounds and restores vitality. This heals 1% of total maximum hit points per round up to half of their normal maximum hit point total. Soothing Touch (Strike) Your touch brings soothing relief to those who have been injured, allowing them to fight on. You may heal 2d4 + your initiator level with a touch. This may only heal damage taken within the past minute. Unassuming Defense (Stance) You can cause others to view you as unimportant and they will ignore you in favor of other opponents. Anyone seeking to to target you with harmful abilities or attacks must roll a will save (DC 11 + Wis modifier) to do so. If you target anyone with a harmful ability or attack this stance ends immediately and even if you assume this stance again that opponent no longer needs to roll a will save to target you for the next 24 hours. This has gotten me interested in writing up a complete discipline and a new class. I'll be posting it soon in the classes section.
Jeweler 07-09-07, 10:06 AM	Well put up a link here because I am interested to see what you do with it all. Soothing touch seems like a decent, cast all the time, ability. The next channeling could make it 2D8+initiator level, and then the 3rd ability for it could be like 4D8+initiator level. Or something like that. The advantage of using that technique for an always cast ability is that its relatively low in power, but it can still heal enough, until higher levels, that its useful. IE you don't have people whining about book keeping and the fact that you gave an example
EvilVegan 07-09-07, 10:29 AM	Disciplines here: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=13007333#post13007333 Class here: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=881389
fatal error 07-09-07, 08:15 PM	You're limiting Curing spells to short-term in-combat use. Makes sense, you don't want to have everyone at instant full health out of combat. But then you are going to introduce a new mechanic to make people heal faster outside of combat. Why not just let them use Curing spells out of combat? If you want everyone to be at full health going into a fight, then let them just use their same tools for in combat and out of combat healing.