Post/Author/DateTime	Post
edibi 02-19-04, 05:06 PM	I don't know if I am missing something but making fighter's bonus feats being equivalent to sneak attack is absolutely wrong... the bouns feats are the majority of what makes a fighter special and unique. With the variant they suggest you might as well just make a rogue with bonus feats and they'll be much better than any fighter. Shield proficiency + med, hvy armor does not equal 6 more sp/lvl, 4 special abilities, evasion, uncanny dodge, more class skills... etc. It's a little too variant... Other than that the book seems really well thought out.
Xeviat-DM 02-19-04, 05:26 PM	Lower HP, lower BAB ... Rogues are not as good of a fighter as a fighter. Sneak attack is all that keeps rogues up there in the fighting ability.
The Livewire 02-19-04, 05:57 PM	I acutally like it, it's the best of both worlds, extra feats and extra skills yummy. The loss of attack, armor, shield, etc I think balances it out, can't say w/o playing it myself. I read this and thought of the dread pirate roberts myself.
aldymnor 02-19-04, 06:10 PM	hahaha, seriously I thought the exact opposite when I read the same variant. I was like "who the hell would substitute sneak attack for fighter feats? Just make a fighter." I do see both sides of the argument more that I thought about it, but there's no way i'll ever say eleven feats make up for 10d6 damage in sneak attackability. I'd stay with my sneak attack.
Lord Schpungus 02-19-04, 06:13 PM	I could have sworn it was give up the fighter feats and get sneak attack instead of the other way around. Hmm..
aldymnor 02-19-04, 06:29 PM	the reverse does exist. it is a fighter variant.
Maethras 02-19-04, 06:30 PM	Both are in there.
Etiquette_Gnome 02-19-04, 06:57 PM	Don't really understand that rule. There's nothing wrong with multi-classing a fighter/rogue to get the same effect. Besides, I don't see how your character concept would be THAT demanding to not consider a fighter/rogue the same as this variant.
Lord Schpungus 02-19-04, 07:53 PM	But you'll never get 20 BAB with a fighter/rogue, or even a rogue, and you'll never get 10d6 sneak attack with a fighter/rogue, or just plain fighter, and hey, maybe you don't want evasion, but a larger hit die and you're not so big on tons of skills but you enjoy being a tin can with sneak attack. Now that's a funny image.
GMSteve 03-31-04, 07:37 PM	I always kind of thought this varient was good for the swashbuckling campaigns. In those you may want a rogue character who is less of an oppurtunist when it comes to the sneak attack. Great for Pirate Campaigns where you need the skills, but some of the other feats on the fighter chain might be more useful than the sneak attack like disarm and improved trip, etc.
Xeviat-DM 04-01-04, 04:54 AM	Here's another example. Look at the Swashbuckler from Complete Warrior. Great class, right? Count how many abilities it gets that appear to be equivalent to feats. I count about 13, give or take. Granted, the abilities are predistributed, and some may or may not be as powerful as a feat, but it's pretty even to the fighter's 11. The swashbuckler has no shield, medium, or heavy armor proficiancy, but gains 4 skill points per level. What am I saying all this for? Rogue has 8 skill points per level and a d6. Custom says you can drop skill points by 2 and increase HD by 2. 6 skill points and d8 is fine (like a ranger ...), so 4 skill points and d10 is cool for the buckler of swashes. Do the same to the rogue. Swap out the 10 sneak attacks for feats. Take away about 6 feat equivalent abilities for the +5 to BAB (5 for each AB, 1 for the extra attack). Give or take, Rogue with feats is balanced to Swashbuckler, but DMs may be more prone to allowing the Feat Rogue than the Swashbuckler.