Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dragonwriter 04-30-06, 03:25 PM	I have a friend of mine who is arguing against the usage of the Spell Point system by saying that it significantly underpowers the abilities of the Sorcerer. He states to me that one of the biggest advantages of playing a Sorcerer is that the Sorcerer has 2 bonus spell slots of each spell level per day, which means he has a significantly greater ability to case far more spells than a wizard in a single day. When looking over the table for Spell Points at ninth level, we discovered that a sorcerer has only 17 more spell points than the wizard, equating to one ninth level spell more in a day. He argues that this is not balanced. I argued that the Sorcerer now "knows" effectively far more spells each day than the wizard, resulting in overall increased freedom of options for him, and he pointed out that at 7th, 8th, and 9th levels, the wizard can prepare 4 spells per day, whereas the sorcerer only knows 3 of each level, and he argued that those high-level slots are vastly more important. He argues that that, combined with the wizards ability to switch out his "known" spells each day, this makes the sorcerer a superfluous class under the Spell Point system. Do me a favor: What do you think? Is he right? Is the sorcerer a superfluous class under the Spell Point system? Or does the nature of his role in the game simply change as compared to the wizard? I would greatly appreciate any input on this, since I'm not familiar enough with the hows and whys of the Wizards of the Coast creators to know what their original purpose was in creating the system this way, and thus I cannot properly defend it.
Xeviat-DM 04-30-06, 03:54 PM	The only thing the sorcerer gains in the UA spell system is that their damage spells which normally scaled with caster level deal one die more damage, for 1 less SP, than a wizards. A wizard gains 3rd level spells at 5th level, and thus fireball deals 5d6 damage; but a sorcerer doesn't gain 3rd level spells until 6th level, and thus fire ball deals 6d6 damage. But, the wizard has far more preparation slots than the sorcerer does; the wizard actually gains bonus preparation slots for having a high intelligence score. To make things worse, the sorcerer only has 1 extra, fully powered, spell per day. The way to balance the UA SP system is to remove the wizard's ability to gain bonus preparation slots for having a high intelligence score, and to cut the wizard's preparation slots in half. When you compare the Psion to the CP Erudite, you'll see that the Psion knows somewhere around 36 powers at 20th level, while the Erudite only has 9 preparation slots (the Erudite has unlimited power knowledge, but once they cast a spell it is "locked in" for the day, and they can only "lock in" 9 powers each day). This allows the Erudite to potentially "prepare" all 9th level powers in one day, so I think giving 2 slots per spell level is a little more balanced. So the new trade between the Sorcerer and the Wizard is that the Sorcerer has limited knowledge, but more variety each day, while the wizard has unlimited knowledge but less variety each day.
jagggar 05-01-06, 09:45 AM	Well, there are two problems with UA's Spell Point system to start with. The sorcerer's problems branch out from there. First, spells are spells. They weren't made to be powered by SP, so they're going to be kinda strange when operating under the SP system. The UA SP system seems as though it was rushed to complete. "We have a lot of people asking for one, so let's just give it to them." Secondly, in that rush, all they did was take the 3.0 psion's PP and give it to the wizard. If they did any calculations to make sure the classes could cast as much as they nomally could, they only did it for the bard, paladin, and ranger. Classes: BRD CLR DRD PAL RNG SRC WIZ UA scores: 144 232 232 48 48 249 232 Min Points: 144 349 349 48 48 486 324 % total: 100 66 66 100 100 51 72 New (a): 74 179 179 25 25 249 166 New (b): 130 314 314 43 43 437 292 where- UA scores are the Spell Points given to the 20th level classes Min Points is the minimum number of points needed to cast as many spells as the normal class can, without including the extra-points-for-heightened-spells thingie (ie - 20th level bard can cast 4 spells of 1st through to 6th level) % total is what % of the total points needed each class is actually given (=UA scores/Min points x 100) New (a) is my calculation of how many points each class should have, if the Sorcerer class is correct (note: they all cast ~50% less than their normal counterparts) New (b) is taking a straight 1-% off each classes max (the Min Points row) since by this method, the bard, paladin and ranger come out at 100%, i have changed the criteria for "new (a)" and "new (b)". the main thing these calculations show (to me, anyway), is how much the sorcerer is still getting the shaft... Like he says: shaft. I don't know how they decided exactly how much SP to give the sorcerer, but either they didn't put enough thought into it (both the sorcerer and the system as a whole), or they really, really do hate the sorcerer that much.
The_Newborn 05-05-06, 04:39 AM	One alternative I've been considering is modiffying the spells per day lists from the phb into spell points using the cost/spell level for power points from the expanded psionic handbook. That way the the differences between classes should stand out much more.
Gaia 05-12-06, 05:22 PM	The Unearthed Arcana's Spell Point System definitely underpowers the Sorcerer. It's obvious. I made a little alternative Spell Point System to change the spell points each class receives. Here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=621195).