Post Your Favorite Spell Systems (vs. DnD's) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post Your Favorite Spell Systems (vs. DnD's) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Nathreet
05-18-07, 12:02 AM Okay, first, I like the DnD spell system and the spells in it. The problem, I think, comes with spell power issues. Nobody wants to multi-class into wizard because it is too weak. And once you get higher level spells you tend not to use your lower level spells unless you need to budget. But before getting into "fixes", I'd like to see some spell systems you all like from other games. Please number you spell system(s). I'll start.

1. Grey Star the Wizard / Lone Wolf (books)
In Grey Star you get 5 powers, with the strong implication that you get 5 because you are a 5th level wizard. Each time you beat a book you gained another power. Each power covered a different type of magic, and thus had a variety of application. For example, enchantment is a single power that covers all illussions (hallucinations). Powers usually cost 1 "willpower point", but they can be augmented by spending 2 points. And that's it. The one power that costs 2 and augments to 3 actually makes you fall over when augmented.

Nice and clean, and it avoids the spell power issue. Lone Wolf takes it a bit farther by letting your powers ("disciplines") do a little bit more when you reach a higher level. Simple, versatile, and highly multi-class friendly.

There are 2 drawbacks:
First, certain powers are obviously better than others. So any smart player will pick the good ones first. This might be a balance issue, or it might not matter (they may be weaker but still necessary/helpful b/c they are different).

Second, once you gain all the powers the game creates upgrading versions to keep the series going. This makes the old powers fade into the background for the most part.

I think a similar system with enough powers to spread across 20 levels and no upgraded versions of them would be nice.

2. Hero Quest (board game)
In hero quest there are 12 spells: 4 elements times 3 times per element. The neat thing is that you give 3 elements to the wizard and 1 element to the elf. The 9 wizard spells are just enough to last through each pre-made adventure. You don't feel like you need to budget them, and you don't have spells left over when the adventure is over. But the fact that each spell does something different allows a great deal of variety and creativity that makes controlling the wizard interesting. The elf's spells are obviously just as strong as the wizard's, but he needs to budget them. As you may have guessed, the elf can fight too. So here you have a system that beautifully handles both multi-classed fighter/wizards and the spell power issue b/c, well, all spells are at the same level of power.

Problems: As you may have noticed, this system doesn't facilitate leveling up, but you do get to keep your gear & spend your coin from adventure to adventure. It also requires adventures to be a specific length, to keep the casters from becoming overpowered or underpowered.

I think a similar system that expends your spells as you cast them (like the DnD wizard), but without different levels of spell power would be nice. This system is actually my favorite out of the two, even though it's from a board game and the spells are printed on 12 playing cards.
Zodiaq7
05-18-07, 09:11 PM I loved the Deadlands(TM) casting for Hucksters(Wizards). You'd roll a skill check, and based on your roll you'd draw a number of cards and make the best poker hand you could & that would determine the power of your Hex(spell).
The_Ditto
05-18-07, 09:44 PM Does hero system (Champions) count? It may have originally been for superheroes, but I've played a "D&D-sytle" game using it and Variable Power Pools make for great representation of spells ... Endurance to "cast", and a set of known powers they draw from ... almost makes them more like psionics or sorcerers ... but wizards are doable (pool that can change ...)

(Undead and such were down right scary in that system as well ... hehe)
:P
Nathreet
05-19-07, 01:34 AM Does hero system (Champions) count? It may have originally been for superheroes, but I've played a "D&D-sytle" game using it and Variable Power Pools make for great representation of spells ... Endurance to "cast", and a set of known powers they draw from ... almost makes them more like psionics or sorcerers ... but wizards are doable (pool that can change ...)

(Undead and such were down right scary in that system as well ... hehe)
:P
Yes, any system that can be adapted to magic definately counts. In my case, I should point out that "Lone Wolf" grants warrior special abilities (think paladin/ranger) while "Grey Star" grants spells, yet they use the exact same system. And "Lone Wolf" is the main series, even; "Grey Star" is just a spin-off.
True Cavalier
05-19-07, 04:12 AM Heroes of Might & Magic III.

You have 4 schools of magic (air, earth, water, fire) and you pay for them with Spell Points. Your maximum reserve of Spell Points is 10x your Knowledge, and the spells become more powerful depending on your Power, not your level directly. There are also items and places that directly affect your spell point regeneration and your maximum reserve. Each school of magic has related skills that reduce the Spell Point cost and increase the effectiveness of all spells within it (like having them affect multiple units).

Simple, and very effective. I am trying to do something similar for my pen & paper games.
Holy_Beholder
05-21-07, 09:20 PM A variant on FUDGE that showed up in fudge factor had you starting out combats at 0 magic points, then you would gain 3 per round. Different level abilities took different amounts of points, saving the major spells until late battles. Basically, you had to wait, and use lower powered abilities, if you wanted to pull off a meteor swarm or wish. This could be converted to D&D pretty easily too, you gain caster level magic points per round, and spells cost their level squared. Meaning that at 20th level you could charge up a meteor swarm in 5 rounds. It went back to 0 after combat too.

Another system I like, though I don't remember where it was, was that spell casters could summon spirits, and make allies, or force spirits to do their will, and hope to god that they manage to control them, and avoid having to dodge the POd fire spirit using the spells you were trying to use.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nathreet 05-18-07, 12:02 AM	Okay, first, I like the DnD spell system and the spells in it. The problem, I think, comes with spell power issues. Nobody wants to multi-class into wizard because it is too weak. And once you get higher level spells you tend not to use your lower level spells unless you need to budget. But before getting into "fixes", I'd like to see some spell systems you all like from other games. Please number you spell system(s). I'll start. 1. Grey Star the Wizard / Lone Wolf (books) In Grey Star you get 5 powers, with the strong implication that you get 5 because you are a 5th level wizard. Each time you beat a book you gained another power. Each power covered a different type of magic, and thus had a variety of application. For example, enchantment is a single power that covers all illussions (hallucinations). Powers usually cost 1 "willpower point", but they can be augmented by spending 2 points. And that's it. The one power that costs 2 and augments to 3 actually makes you fall over when augmented. Nice and clean, and it avoids the spell power issue. Lone Wolf takes it a bit farther by letting your powers ("disciplines") do a little bit more when you reach a higher level. Simple, versatile, and highly multi-class friendly. There are 2 drawbacks: First, certain powers are obviously better than others. So any smart player will pick the good ones first. This might be a balance issue, or it might not matter (they may be weaker but still necessary/helpful b/c they are different). Second, once you gain all the powers the game creates upgrading versions to keep the series going. This makes the old powers fade into the background for the most part. I think a similar system with enough powers to spread across 20 levels and no upgraded versions of them would be nice. 2. Hero Quest (board game) In hero quest there are 12 spells: 4 elements times 3 times per element. The neat thing is that you give 3 elements to the wizard and 1 element to the elf. The 9 wizard spells are just enough to last through each pre-made adventure. You don't feel like you need to budget them, and you don't have spells left over when the adventure is over. But the fact that each spell does something different allows a great deal of variety and creativity that makes controlling the wizard interesting. The elf's spells are obviously just as strong as the wizard's, but he needs to budget them. As you may have guessed, the elf can fight too. So here you have a system that beautifully handles both multi-classed fighter/wizards and the spell power issue b/c, well, all spells are at the same level of power. Problems: As you may have noticed, this system doesn't facilitate leveling up, but you do get to keep your gear & spend your coin from adventure to adventure. It also requires adventures to be a specific length, to keep the casters from becoming overpowered or underpowered. I think a similar system that expends your spells as you cast them (like the DnD wizard), but without different levels of spell power would be nice. This system is actually my favorite out of the two, even though it's from a board game and the spells are printed on 12 playing cards.
Zodiaq7 05-18-07, 09:11 PM	I loved the Deadlands(TM) casting for Hucksters(Wizards). You'd roll a skill check, and based on your roll you'd draw a number of cards and make the best poker hand you could & that would determine the power of your Hex(spell).
The_Ditto 05-18-07, 09:44 PM	Does hero system (Champions) count? It may have originally been for superheroes, but I've played a "D&D-sytle" game using it and Variable Power Pools make for great representation of spells ... Endurance to "cast", and a set of known powers they draw from ... almost makes them more like psionics or sorcerers ... but wizards are doable (pool that can change ...) (Undead and such were down right scary in that system as well ... hehe) :P
Nathreet 05-19-07, 01:34 AM	Does hero system (Champions) count? It may have originally been for superheroes, but I've played a "D&D-sytle" game using it and Variable Power Pools make for great representation of spells ... Endurance to "cast", and a set of known powers they draw from ... almost makes them more like psionics or sorcerers ... but wizards are doable (pool that can change ...) (Undead and such were down right scary in that system as well ... hehe) :P Yes, any system that can be adapted to magic definately counts. In my case, I should point out that "Lone Wolf" grants warrior special abilities (think paladin/ranger) while "Grey Star" grants spells, yet they use the exact same system. And "Lone Wolf" is the main series, even; "Grey Star" is just a spin-off.
True Cavalier 05-19-07, 04:12 AM	Heroes of Might & Magic III. You have 4 schools of magic (air, earth, water, fire) and you pay for them with Spell Points. Your maximum reserve of Spell Points is 10x your Knowledge, and the spells become more powerful depending on your Power, not your level directly. There are also items and places that directly affect your spell point regeneration and your maximum reserve. Each school of magic has related skills that reduce the Spell Point cost and increase the effectiveness of all spells within it (like having them affect multiple units). Simple, and very effective. I am trying to do something similar for my pen & paper games.
Holy_Beholder 05-21-07, 09:20 PM	A variant on FUDGE that showed up in fudge factor had you starting out combats at 0 magic points, then you would gain 3 per round. Different level abilities took different amounts of points, saving the major spells until late battles. Basically, you had to wait, and use lower powered abilities, if you wanted to pull off a meteor swarm or wish. This could be converted to D&D pretty easily too, you gain caster level magic points per round, and spells cost their level squared. Meaning that at 20th level you could charge up a meteor swarm in 5 rounds. It went back to 0 after combat too. Another system I like, though I don't remember where it was, was that spell casters could summon spirits, and make allies, or force spirits to do their will, and hope to god that they manage to control them, and avoid having to dodge the POd fire spirit using the spells you were trying to use.