Prepared vs Spontaneous [Archive] - Wizards Community

Prepared vs Spontaneous [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ao
08-11-04, 02:25 PM If spontaneous spellcasting is inferior to prepared spellcasting, (I am not comparing the sorcerer and wizard classes here, I am just making an inference based on certain opinions expressed on these boards.) should divine spellcasters converted to spontaneous divine spellcasters (variant class feature, Unearthed Arcana pg 64) be compensated to maintain balance? (And if so, what would you suggest?)
MetalGemini
08-11-04, 07:21 PM The spontaneous divine spellcasters are pretty balanced IMO. Then again, I dont think spontaneous casting is any worse than prepared casting. In some ways its actually better.

But no, I wouldn't compensate a spontaneous divine caster in any way. The primary reason is because the character chose to be a spontaneous caster and they should be prepared to handle it. Don't expect to get bonuses because you are picking a variant that is only "weaker" in some opinions and not others.
Ao
08-11-04, 11:46 PM Originally posted by MetalGemini
The spontaneous divine spellcasters are pretty balanced IMO. Then again, I dont think spontaneous casting is any worse than prepared casting. In some ways its actually better.

But no, I wouldn't compensate a spontaneous divine caster in any way. The primary reason is because the character chose to be a spontaneous caster and they should be prepared to handle it. Don't expect to get bonuses because you are picking a variant that is only "weaker" in some opinions and not others.

I thought so as well. Just wanted a second opinion. Thank you dr.
JohnSnow
08-17-04, 03:35 PM We've been using the "spontaneous divine caster rule" in our campaign.

Overall, I think it's terrific. The character has been a nice addition to the party without overpowering it too much. Of course, our campaign (so far, at least) has tended to involve multiple weak encounters, something which slightly favors fighters over casters.

And both our cleric and sorcerer (Complete Book of Eldritch Might variant) have proven their mettle in hand-to-hand combat. The Arthurian-based campaign world has very few wizards, and there are none in our party. Sorcerers, which are equally rare, have to either be Alfar (elves) or have the proper bloodline (Fey or Devil?) per the UA rules for bloodlines, and consistent with Arthurian myth.

Personally, I like the change.
Fiendish Banana Golem
08-24-04, 12:18 PM Here's the thing.

To convert a Wizard into a Sorcerer, you have to restrict the Wizard's spells known from a spellbook down to a specific picked list.

To convert a Cleric into a Spontaneous Cleric, the restriction is MUCH greater: While a Wizard has to spend time, money, and effort to aquire, keep, protect, and maintain spellbooks, a Cleric automatically knows every damn spell on the list. So to give them the same spells known chart as a Sorcerer is a bigger change for them then for an arcane caster.
Walnut
08-31-04, 12:02 PM Here's the thing.
While a Wizard has to spend time, money, and effort to aquire, keep, protect, and maintain spellbooks, a Cleric automatically knows every damn spell on the list. So to give them the same spells known chart as a Sorcerer is a bigger change for them then for an arcane caster.

Yep, that's the reasoning behind the greater spells known and spells/day for the Favored Soul. I play one and I only take cure spells two levels lower than my max spell level just so that I won't be turned into a healing monkey. Even so I spend as much time helping people out in combat as getting directly involved.

A restricted spell list spontaneous caster has more immediate solutions and less long-term solutions, unlike a cleric or wizard who can pray or research for an answer. It can make for some interesting action as well as RP situations. The balance comes from encounter and campaign design.
DM Zoc
08-31-04, 06:20 PM This is all, of course, assuming that an expanded repertoir of spells is a good thing. A cleric may know every spell, but that just means he'll prepare the wrong one 9 times out of 10. The wizard was always a bit better about it, because she could choose her spells, and get as many as she wanted. The sorcerer has always been the class where you are least likely to kick yourself for preparing the wrong spell for the day, though I guess you're more likely to kick yourself for not knowing the correct spell.

The prepared caster says, "Come back tomorrow."

The spontaneous caster says, "This will have to do."

Rather, to answer the question at hand, it would be bad to reward the spontaneous divine caster without rewarding the spontaneous arcane caster similarly.
Xeviat-DM
08-31-04, 08:24 PM The jury is still out deciding on if I thing spontanious divine spellcasters are balanced. They do loose out on a ton of spells known, but with the added ability of automatic domain spells known, in addition to still retaining spontanious cure/inflict conversions, they seem potent enough. As a DM, I would quickly remove the ability to convert cure/inflict spells though, to make the Healing domain worthwhile.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ao 08-11-04, 02:25 PM	If spontaneous spellcasting is inferior to prepared spellcasting, (I am not comparing the sorcerer and wizard classes here, I am just making an inference based on certain opinions expressed on these boards.) should divine spellcasters converted to spontaneous divine spellcasters (variant class feature, Unearthed Arcana pg 64) be compensated to maintain balance? (And if so, what would you suggest?)
MetalGemini 08-11-04, 07:21 PM	The spontaneous divine spellcasters are pretty balanced IMO. Then again, I dont think spontaneous casting is any worse than prepared casting. In some ways its actually better. But no, I wouldn't compensate a spontaneous divine caster in any way. The primary reason is because the character chose to be a spontaneous caster and they should be prepared to handle it. Don't expect to get bonuses because you are picking a variant that is only "weaker" in some opinions and not others.
Ao 08-11-04, 11:46 PM	Originally posted by MetalGemini The spontaneous divine spellcasters are pretty balanced IMO. Then again, I dont think spontaneous casting is any worse than prepared casting. In some ways its actually better. But no, I wouldn't compensate a spontaneous divine caster in any way. The primary reason is because the character chose to be a spontaneous caster and they should be prepared to handle it. Don't expect to get bonuses because you are picking a variant that is only "weaker" in some opinions and not others. I thought so as well. Just wanted a second opinion. Thank you dr.
JohnSnow 08-17-04, 03:35 PM	We've been using the "spontaneous divine caster rule" in our campaign. Overall, I think it's terrific. The character has been a nice addition to the party without overpowering it too much. Of course, our campaign (so far, at least) has tended to involve multiple weak encounters, something which slightly favors fighters over casters. And both our cleric and sorcerer (Complete Book of Eldritch Might variant) have proven their mettle in hand-to-hand combat. The Arthurian-based campaign world has very few wizards, and there are none in our party. Sorcerers, which are equally rare, have to either be Alfar (elves) or have the proper bloodline (Fey or Devil?) per the UA rules for bloodlines, and consistent with Arthurian myth. Personally, I like the change.
Fiendish Banana Golem 08-24-04, 12:18 PM	Here's the thing. To convert a Wizard into a Sorcerer, you have to restrict the Wizard's spells known from a spellbook down to a specific picked list. To convert a Cleric into a Spontaneous Cleric, the restriction is MUCH greater: While a Wizard has to spend time, money, and effort to aquire, keep, protect, and maintain spellbooks, a Cleric automatically knows every damn spell on the list. So to give them the same spells known chart as a Sorcerer is a bigger change for them then for an arcane caster.
Walnut 08-31-04, 12:02 PM	Here's the thing. While a Wizard has to spend time, money, and effort to aquire, keep, protect, and maintain spellbooks, a Cleric automatically knows every damn spell on the list. So to give them the same spells known chart as a Sorcerer is a bigger change for them then for an arcane caster. Yep, that's the reasoning behind the greater spells known and spells/day for the Favored Soul. I play one and I only take cure spells two levels lower than my max spell level just so that I won't be turned into a healing monkey. Even so I spend as much time helping people out in combat as getting directly involved. A restricted spell list spontaneous caster has more immediate solutions and less long-term solutions, unlike a cleric or wizard who can pray or research for an answer. It can make for some interesting action as well as RP situations. The balance comes from encounter and campaign design.
DM Zoc 08-31-04, 06:20 PM	This is all, of course, assuming that an expanded repertoir of spells is a good thing. A cleric may know every spell, but that just means he'll prepare the wrong one 9 times out of 10. The wizard was always a bit better about it, because she could choose her spells, and get as many as she wanted. The sorcerer has always been the class where you are least likely to kick yourself for preparing the wrong spell for the day, though I guess you're more likely to kick yourself for not knowing the correct spell. The prepared caster says, "Come back tomorrow." The spontaneous caster says, "This will have to do." Rather, to answer the question at hand, it would be bad to reward the spontaneous divine caster without rewarding the spontaneous arcane caster similarly.
Xeviat-DM 08-31-04, 08:24 PM	The jury is still out deciding on if I thing spontanious divine spellcasters are balanced. They do loose out on a ton of spells known, but with the added ability of automatic domain spells known, in addition to still retaining spontanious cure/inflict conversions, they seem potent enough. As a DM, I would quickly remove the ability to convert cure/inflict spells though, to make the Healing domain worthwhile.