Proficiency Points [Archive] - Wizards Community

Proficiency Points [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lucan_Desmond
04-06-06, 11:36 AM So I made these variant rules for weapon proficiency real quick the other day. They're interesting at the very least. I think I may try them in a game in a bit. Before I do that though I thought I should get a little feedback from the community. So let me know what you think!

Proficiency Points

A B C D
1 4 8 12 16
2 1 1 2
3 1 1 2
4 1 1 2
5 1 2
6 1 1 1 2
7 1 2
8 1 1 2
9 1 1 2
10 1 1 2
11 1 2
12 1 1 1 2
13 1 2
14 1 1 2
15 1 1 2
16 1 1 2
17 1 2
18 1 1 1 2
19 1 2
20 1 1 2
A-Wizard
B-Monk,Rogue,Druid,Bard,Cleric,
Sorcerer
C-Ranger,Barbarian,Paladin
D-Fighter

Simple Martial Exotic
Proficient 1 2 3
Focus 3 4 6
Specialization 5 6 9
Improv. Focus 8 10 15
Improv. Spec. 11 14 21
Greater Focus 15 20 30
Greater Spec. 19 26 39

Proficiency points are used to determine how skilled a warrior is with his weapons. This point system will replace all the normal feats involved with weapon proficiency. Instead, as your character gains proficiency points (PP) they will gain the benefits of the weapon focus and weapon specialization feats as they invest their PP in a chosen weapon. The amount of PP your character gains each character level (so no taking 1 level in fighter just to gain 16 PP) is shown on the table above and the amount of PP you must invest in a weapon, based on its type, is shown on the table above.

I have added Improved Weapon Focus/Specialization. These feats are basically the same as their 'Greater' counterparts in the core rules and the Greater versions presented here are simply the same thing only better. So each Focus gives a cumulative +1 to hit and each Specialization gives a cumulative +2 to damage. So:
Focus: +1 to hit
Spec.: +2 dmg
Improv. Focus: +2 to hit
Improv. Spec.: +4 dmg
Greater Focus: +3 to hit
Greater Spec.: +6 dmg

The biggest difference between this system and the regular system is that under this system, any and all classes will have access to the Weapon Specialization feat. There are rules for how characters can invest their PP however. Level 1 characters may not spend more than 4 PP on any single weapon. Proficiency Points may not be ‘saved’ for later use; they must be used during the process of changing your character sheet when your character gains a level. Bastard Swords (and any similar weapons) are treated as martial weapons when wielded in two hands and exotic weapons when held with just one hand. That means that if a character has 5 PP invested in bastard sword, he would gain the benefits of
Weapon Focus while wielding it with two hands, but would only be proficient with it while holding it with one hand. If a feat has a specific weapon focus or weapon specialization feat as a prerequisite, than your character must have enough PP invested in at least one weapon to gain the benefits of that feat; the effects of the new feat will only apply when using that weapon.

There is also a new feat available under this system:
Weapon Training [General]
Any character may take this feat and upon taking this feat, that character gains 3 extra PP that may be allocated to any single weapon the character chooses. If selected at first level, the PP granted by Weapon Training may be added to a weapon that has already had the maximum of 4 PP allocated to it.

Let me know what you think about this rules variant!

Later,
Des
Lucan_Desmond
04-07-06, 10:58 AM No love for the Des?

Anybody got any questions or comments?
Phoenix Knight
04-07-06, 12:39 PM It's an intereting idea. How did you come up with the tables?

I think you make it cost too much to max out exotics relative to martial weapons. Admittedly, you pay more for the exotic weapon feat, but a 13 point difference when the normal weapon only costs 26 is a little high.

Also, I like weapon groups. You might consider how, if at all, it needs to be changed for that variant.
Lucan_Desmond
04-07-06, 07:32 PM I'm not a big fan of the weapon groups... they just don't appeal to me really.

The tables follow a simple pattern really, it's very easy to pick out. But in making sure what I'm saying right now, I noticed a typo... fixed in a sec.

The high cost for the exotic weapon max is due to A) the pattern just ended up there and B) I want fighters to be the only people that can get the best out of those weapons. I should point out a few things I forgot in the OP. Like that racial specific weapons (such as dwarven waraxes and urgoshes) count as martial weapons to character of their race. I'm pretty sure that stuff is actually in the core rules, but I'll restate it just to make sure.

I've been thinking of making a more drastic increase in the bonus' and even skills that come with PP for use in a very low magic setting. Something that will make melee combat (since it will pretty much be the only type of combat) much more interesting. That would be an entirely different variant however, since it would only make melee combat too powerful in a normal campaign with full access to magic. When I have a little more scribbled up about that I'll make it a new thread.

Let me know what you think!
Des
kelvinaw273
04-08-06, 06:57 AM I remember these from the old 1st & 2nd Ed rules. I prefer weapons groups. Really.
RaspK FOG
04-08-06, 08:08 AM I'll suggest a mechanic based on weapon groups (especially from 2e and PO): whenever a character taking Weapon Focus with a weapon of a tight group (single-handed swords), he becomes familiar (-2 penalty instead of -4) with all the weapons of that tight group; taking Greater Weapon Focus with that weapon makes one proficient with all weapons in that tight group and familiar with the broad group (swords). How does that sound?

Of course, it might be best to make this a little different, like proficiency granting familiarity in the tight group, WF granting proficiency in the tight group, then GWF granting proficiency in the broad group, or something like that; like WS --> prof. broad group, GWF --> WF tight group, GWS --> WF broad group.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lucan_Desmond 04-06-06, 11:36 AM	So I made these variant rules for weapon proficiency real quick the other day. They're interesting at the very least. I think I may try them in a game in a bit. Before I do that though I thought I should get a little feedback from the community. So let me know what you think! Proficiency Points A B C D 1 4 8 12 16 2 1 1 2 3 1 1 2 4 1 1 2 5 1 2 6 1 1 1 2 7 1 2 8 1 1 2 9 1 1 2 10 1 1 2 11 1 2 12 1 1 1 2 13 1 2 14 1 1 2 15 1 1 2 16 1 1 2 17 1 2 18 1 1 1 2 19 1 2 20 1 1 2 A-Wizard B-Monk,Rogue,Druid,Bard,Cleric, Sorcerer C-Ranger,Barbarian,Paladin D-Fighter Simple Martial Exotic Proficient 1 2 3 Focus 3 4 6 Specialization 5 6 9 Improv. Focus 8 10 15 Improv. Spec. 11 14 21 Greater Focus 15 20 30 Greater Spec. 19 26 39 Proficiency points are used to determine how skilled a warrior is with his weapons. This point system will replace all the normal feats involved with weapon proficiency. Instead, as your character gains proficiency points (PP) they will gain the benefits of the weapon focus and weapon specialization feats as they invest their PP in a chosen weapon. The amount of PP your character gains each character level (so no taking 1 level in fighter just to gain 16 PP) is shown on the table above and the amount of PP you must invest in a weapon, based on its type, is shown on the table above. I have added Improved Weapon Focus/Specialization. These feats are basically the same as their 'Greater' counterparts in the core rules and the Greater versions presented here are simply the same thing only better. So each Focus gives a cumulative +1 to hit and each Specialization gives a cumulative +2 to damage. So: Focus: +1 to hit Spec.: +2 dmg Improv. Focus: +2 to hit Improv. Spec.: +4 dmg Greater Focus: +3 to hit Greater Spec.: +6 dmg The biggest difference between this system and the regular system is that under this system, any and all classes will have access to the Weapon Specialization feat. There are rules for how characters can invest their PP however. Level 1 characters may not spend more than 4 PP on any single weapon. Proficiency Points may not be ‘saved’ for later use; they must be used during the process of changing your character sheet when your character gains a level. Bastard Swords (and any similar weapons) are treated as martial weapons when wielded in two hands and exotic weapons when held with just one hand. That means that if a character has 5 PP invested in bastard sword, he would gain the benefits of Weapon Focus while wielding it with two hands, but would only be proficient with it while holding it with one hand. If a feat has a specific weapon focus or weapon specialization feat as a prerequisite, than your character must have enough PP invested in at least one weapon to gain the benefits of that feat; the effects of the new feat will only apply when using that weapon. There is also a new feat available under this system: Weapon Training [General] Any character may take this feat and upon taking this feat, that character gains 3 extra PP that may be allocated to any single weapon the character chooses. If selected at first level, the PP granted by Weapon Training may be added to a weapon that has already had the maximum of 4 PP allocated to it. Let me know what you think about this rules variant! Later, Des
Lucan_Desmond 04-07-06, 10:58 AM	No love for the Des? Anybody got any questions or comments?
Phoenix Knight 04-07-06, 12:39 PM	It's an intereting idea. How did you come up with the tables? I think you make it cost too much to max out exotics relative to martial weapons. Admittedly, you pay more for the exotic weapon feat, but a 13 point difference when the normal weapon only costs 26 is a little high. Also, I like weapon groups. You might consider how, if at all, it needs to be changed for that variant.
Lucan_Desmond 04-07-06, 07:32 PM	I'm not a big fan of the weapon groups... they just don't appeal to me really. The tables follow a simple pattern really, it's very easy to pick out. But in making sure what I'm saying right now, I noticed a typo... fixed in a sec. The high cost for the exotic weapon max is due to A) the pattern just ended up there and B) I want fighters to be the only people that can get the best out of those weapons. I should point out a few things I forgot in the OP. Like that racial specific weapons (such as dwarven waraxes and urgoshes) count as martial weapons to character of their race. I'm pretty sure that stuff is actually in the core rules, but I'll restate it just to make sure. I've been thinking of making a more drastic increase in the bonus' and even skills that come with PP for use in a very low magic setting. Something that will make melee combat (since it will pretty much be the only type of combat) much more interesting. That would be an entirely different variant however, since it would only make melee combat too powerful in a normal campaign with full access to magic. When I have a little more scribbled up about that I'll make it a new thread. Let me know what you think! Des
kelvinaw273 04-08-06, 06:57 AM	I remember these from the old 1st & 2nd Ed rules. I prefer weapons groups. Really.
RaspK FOG 04-08-06, 08:08 AM	I'll suggest a mechanic based on weapon groups (especially from 2e and PO): whenever a character taking Weapon Focus with a weapon of a tight group (single-handed swords), he becomes familiar (-2 penalty instead of -4) with all the weapons of that tight group; taking Greater Weapon Focus with that weapon makes one proficient with all weapons in that tight group and familiar with the broad group (swords). How does that sound? Of course, it might be best to make this a little different, like proficiency granting familiarity in the tight group, WF granting proficiency in the tight group, then GWF granting proficiency in the broad group, or something like that; like WS --> prof. broad group, GWF --> WF tight group, GWS --> WF broad group.