Post/Author/DateTime	Post
IceFractal 07-10-05, 10:00 PM	Here's a new house-rule I'm trying to work out the details of - Monks with weapons. This is basically a slight variation to the Monk class, which is optional (that is, players can use either the normal Monk or this version). The changes are: 1) Weapon Proficiencies: Change to "all simple weapons and the monk's weapon of choice (see below)" 2) Replace Improved Unarmed Strike with this: Weapon of Choice: At 1st level, the Monk picks a weapon to train in. This can be any light or one-handed melee weapon. Any abilities that normally use unarmed strike (such as Flurry of Blows, Stunning Fist, Ki Strike) use this weapon instead - but the weapon must be nonmagical. 3) Remove the increased unarmed damage. That's the change. The question I have is: What should the Monk get in exchange for losing the increasing unarmed damage? The standard Monk gets a light, undisarmable, invisible weapon that eventually does 2d10 damage. This version does not, and still can't use a magic weapon because I wanted the focus to be on personal abilities. Therefore, I was thinking that they should get something new. I've got some possible ideas: * Bonus Feats (from the Fighter list) * More Ki Strike abilities (make the weapon flaming, or have it strike incorporeal creatures, etc) * Good BAB (this could get nasty with Flurry though) But I want to hear what you think. What would make a good replacement ability, and what levels should it be at? How powerful should the ability be?
Cymraegmorgan 07-11-05, 12:50 AM	So long as the Monk uses that Chosen Weapon, the Unarmed Damage column is applied to that weapon. So, at first level your Monk, having chosen kama as his weapon, would do its normal 1d6 damage. However, at fourth level the damage he deals with the kama goes up to 1d8. And so on. I really like this idea you have come up with. :)
IceFractal 07-11-05, 01:05 AM	What about if the weapon does more than the column? Such as a longsword at 1st level?
Cymraegmorgan 07-11-05, 01:19 AM	He uses whichever damage dice is greater. I do not think it would be a game breaker.
Xeviat-DM 07-11-05, 03:06 AM	Either have the damage die increase by steps as it did (1d4 > 1d6 > 1d8 > 1d10 > 2d6 > 2d8 > 2d10 > 4d6 ...), or, more simply, change Ki strike to the following progression: 4. Ki Strike (+1, Magic) 8. Ki Strike (+2) 10. Ki Strike (Lawful) 12. Ki Strike (+3) 16. Ki Strike (+4, Adamantine) 20. Ki Strike (+5) Technically this reduces the Monk's damage (for instance, unarmed would be 1d6+5, with an average of 8.5, instead of 2d10, with an average of 11), but that is made up for by the additional to hit. Nice idea, though. Remember the general limitations to light, one-handed, and two-handed weapons, though. The Monk originally only really used light or double weapons.
Error 401 07-11-05, 05:38 AM	Interesting variant, unfortunately I don't really have any ideas about it right now, maybe later.
IceFractal 07-11-05, 05:41 AM	Both the increased damage and Ki Strike version sound promising. The reason I limited it to light and one-handed weapons is because two-handed weapons include a lot of abilities even beyond higher damage, like reach, variable reach, and even grappling at reach (Mancatcher). Just using a spear might not be a problem, but I didn't want to have to rule separately on each weapon.
J Milburn 07-11-05, 07:12 AM	Hmm, i dont really like it. I dont think it is that realistic, even less though than the monk in european medieval fantasy. Its a nice idea, but not for me.
lostone 07-11-05, 08:31 AM	I like the idea of using a weapon in place of unarmed (more flavor that way). I would say use the weapon damage or unarmed damage whichever is higher. The balance will stay mostly the same on the class, the only real difference will be at low levels when the weapon does more damage and at higher levels with the weapon possibly having a larger threat range. I'm not even sure I would require the weapon to be non-magical. Simply put a limitation that the monk chooses whether to apply his unarmed abilities (ki-strike, etc) to the weapon, OR the magical properties of the weapon. That way if the monk gets a good weapon such as the Green Destiny in Crouching Tiger then they can use that instead. It gives more opportunity for unique weapons that are tied to monks. Maybe add in a couple places through the monk progression (every 5 or 6 levels) where they can choose a +1 weapon ability to make things more interesting, but to balance it a bit remove some abilities such as quivering palm and slow fall.
IceFractal 07-11-05, 02:34 PM	Incidentally, in Xeviat's version, does anyone think it would cause problems to allow weapon enhancements other than straight bonuses (ala Kensai)?
lostone 07-11-05, 02:45 PM	I see no problem with it. You might even do some kind of combined monk/kensai varient. Or just take Monk then Kensai. But if the Kensai's oath does not fit your world/theme/concept then see if you can bypass that part.
Xeviat-DM 07-12-05, 12:55 AM	Incidentally, in Xeviat's version, does anyone think it would cause problems to allow weapon enhancements other than straight bonuses (ala Kensai)? The only problem would be item stacking; as it is now it would only be fair on non-magical weapons. If you could use it on magical weapons, then someone would pull the +1 flaming, shock, frost, corrosive, keen ... +9 worth of abilities ontop of their normal +5 natural ability. What you're talking about is similar to the Soul Knife, which could easily be balanced as long as you give up suitable monk abilities to afford the extra abilities.
IceFractal 07-12-05, 03:39 AM	Well, I was thinking it would only work with non-magical weapons. If you used a magic one, you'd be proficient and possibly get Flurry of Blows, but none of the other abilities like Ki Strike, the special bonuses, or Stunning Fist.
DwarvinJedi 07-13-05, 02:34 AM	What about granting Ancestral Relic(Feat from BoED) with a weapon instead of Ki Strike